From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Feb 23 12:04:57 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, February 23 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1372 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] W126 (?86 300SDL) Radio Mystery and other Questions RE: [db] Last time before purchasedieselhead opinion poll [db] on the road again... Re: [db] Last time before purchasedieselhead opinion poll [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) RE: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:40:40 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] W126 (?86 300SDL) Radio Mystery and other Questions On Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 01:00:17PM -0800, Greg Fiorentino wrote: > 1- The OEM Becker radio cuts in and out at times. It does not appear to > relate to moisture or temperature. Sometimes it fails to turn on when I > start the car, then starts up after a while. Sometimes starts up ok, then > turns off after playing for a while. When it doesn't play, I get momentary > low volume distorted sound if I press the "on" switch or any station > button. Does this sound like a relay that is operating intermittently? Or > is it more likely something internal in the radio itself? I like the radio > and the sound quality when it is working, but don't want the expense of > replacing with a new OEM. Can I get this working right with a little > multimeter testing? Do any of you electronics gurus out there have an idea > what's happening here? Mine started doing this, until it stuck in the 'on' position. One of these days, I'll pull the switch and fix it. I think a contact just came loose. > 3- The engine starts immediately and runs smoothly. However, it does not > produce the power I am hearing the 3 liter 6 cyl. can produce. The valves > are hydraulic, so I can't adjust them. Are the injectors the most likely > culprit? The engine has only 135k. mi. on it. Sounds like you need to take it out and beat the crap out of it. Check the ALDA first to make sure it's right (most of them aren't on these, from what I keep hearing), then take it out and give it hell. > Can I get this bushing separately? I assume I would have to go to a dealer > for this. If not, what is this part called? It does not actually appear > to be the shock itself, as there appears to be some sort of lever-acting > deal down at the bottom. Anyone out there BTDT with this? Getting to the > dealer in Portland is a PITA, and I would rather patronize Rusty. I've had success with Rusty just telling him the location of the bushing, what it appeared to do, the year of the car, and the relative size, then gotten the right one in the mail. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:45:45 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] Last time before purchasedieselhead opinion poll Jason, You obviously want the car. It's your life. Do what makes you happy. Don't put the weight of the decision on us. We are a bunch of fanatics who like MB Diesels, especially 240Ds. (We're not so sure about Alec; you have to read carefully between the lines of his posts to detect any bias.) Free advice, from us, based on your assertions that the car's problems are surely minor is worth less than it costs. Hiring someone knowledgeable, but not invested in the car, to check it out might provide objective information on which to base a decision but you already rejected that path. The oil in a diesel is always dirty. It should not have chunks. Dirty air filters restrict air flow and therefore power. If it's so old it has gaping holes in it, then it might be allowing abrasive particles into the engine that will cut hundreds of miles off the several hundreds of thousand mile life expectancy of the engine. If I had a 240D, I would want a relatively clean air filter in it at all times. Being lax on oil changes will cut thousands of miles off the life expectancy of the engine. If I could only afford to replace either oil/filter or air filter, I'd leave an old air filter in there every time. Leaking fuel return lines contribute to aroma and decrease fuel mileage. $2.99 vs. running out of fuel, miles from a diesel source, seems a no-brainer. Note: restarting after you ran out of fuel is not a speedy process. Broken timing chains make engines mad enough to spit--piston parts, valves, cam towers, etc. Chain replacement is an order of magnitude less expensive than post-break repairs. You can measure chain wear and decide based on that. If I were buying a 200+kmi car, I would replace all fluids, filters, belts, hoses, timing chain and tensioner without bothering to check how badly they might be needed. Living in a mountainous area with a 240D will, I expect, get you over your fear of flooring the accelerator pretty quickly. The car was designed to cruise at its top speed (on autobahns, among Ferraris, Porches, V8 gas MBs, etc.. That's an experience you must experience to appreciate--think 100mph speed difference). Fuel economy is less at top speed than when poking along but that is the primary downside. Acceleration at half throttle is noticeably less than at full throttle. While half throttle might be gentler on components, the possibility of not achieving 900,000 miles before engine replacement will pale in comparison to actually beating a fully loaded semi in a drag race. Most of us on the list would jump at a chance to buy an 81 240D for $1000, even if it had a problem or two. Those of us who have done such things in the past might, if $1000 was important, get a PPI first. Enjoy the car! Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jason R Bassett Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:55 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] Last time before purchasedieselhead opinion poll OK, guys^Wthis is the last check before I buy the thing, and at this point I am almost planning to. I want as many (knowledgeable) opinions as I can get by Sunday night, so I can make the best decision. Everything except the details is just as best as I can see or find out Car Details 1981 Mercedes 240D, 2.4L NA Diesel, Automatic Transmission, ~237,750 miles, $1000 Car's Known History Has a previous owner and consignment seller who both like it Hit a deer and has been restored Car's Apparent Positives Engine and transmission both seem perfectly sound and dependable Vehicle is recommended for WVO conversion Starts just as easily as a gasoline engine in reasonable weather Interior is clean and in fair shape Drives/handles perfectly No perceptible oil/transmission fluid/steering/antifreeze leaks Engine did not even consider overheating when I drove it for 45 mins in mild weather Car's Possible Issues Car has hit a deer. I am told that this can mess it up beyond what a backyard mechanic can fix, but it has repaired so well that I had no idea that it had been hit, and probably never would have if the seller had not told me so. If the car had been structurally damaged I would expect it to have handling quirks, and I don't see this. I cannot find anything wrong with the car on this account. Is there something more I should look for? I do not want to pay to have someone else inspect the car; I would sooner take a risk, as long as it is not a high risk. The air filter and oil are dirty. I know that the oil gets dirty very quickly, but this seems a bit dirtier than I would expect, even from a diesel. To me, the dirty air filter suggests the possibility of neglect, BUT I happen to know that the air filter on my current (gas) car is very dirty, but I have changed the oil very consistently, so the dirty air filter is not necessarily a red flag. How big a deal is it on one of these engines if you let the oil go a bit long? Car started very hard when cold. I suspect weak glow plugs, because the engine was spinning briskly. One/two cylinder(s) apparently caught immediately, because it loped while cranking. After several more glow/crank sessions, I did coax it to start, at which point it ran quite acceptably. I know glow plugs are inexpensive, but I am a bit worried about how hard they may be to replace. How much do you have to tear into that 2.4L engine to change the glow plugs? I can see them.....can I unscrew them with a deepwell socket? Anyhow, there should be some time left before I have to worry about it, since the weather is warming up. Fuel injector return lines leak. As far as I understand, fixing this is a $2.99 type job and nothing to worry about, but can this condition cause damage over time? I may need to replace the timing chain. I don't know if it has ever been done, and I know that for it to break is fatal, and many Volkswagen diesels have died this way. However, they use a belt, not a chain; does the chain even have to be replaced with normal use? How do I know if it needs to be replaced or not? I live in a mountainous area, and as a result, this car must be driven very heavy-footedly sometimes. Will this noticeably shorten the engine life? In my test drive, I found myself nearly flooring the accelerator as a matter of course for accelerating and (sometimes) hill-climbing. Is this damaging to the engine? Someone said that they were made expecting that they would get lead-footed drivers, and the transmission handles it well, although it did let it wind up a bit high (I thought) for a diesel. Is any of this to worry about, or should I just use a lead foot and go to grandma's? The car is geared fairly low (predictably) and 55MPH (the speed limit where I live) finds the engine wound up pretty high (considering I'm used to overdrive transmissions) and I am curious as to whether or not I can safely do 70MPH where the speed limit permits me to do so. I routinely travel to ther states where the speed limit is 70MPH, and my travel times are all based on full speed ahead. Would I need to slow down, or is 70 safe for long distances? I routinely travel long distances, and I would hate to get 700 miles from home and have it decide it wants TLC. Is this car at this age dependable enough to travel this kind of distances in? Is it likely to die on me? Overheat? Break the steering? Tell me about the "quirks of old age" that this vehicle is likely to have. For only $1000, I think this is a good buy, but if you think otherwise, please tell me so and SPECIFICALLY WHY. I am looking for a mass response if I can get it, so even if you think someone else has already made your point, please simply email and tell me that you agree with him. I await the dieselhead digest. Thanks for being so helpful. Jason ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:42:17 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] on the road again... I'm down in Eugene, OR to teach a Linux class... only about 290 miles one way... still have over 1/2 tank of Diesel... but fuel prices are way less down here... $1.69 vs 1.89 up in WA! heading back up I-5 Tues evening... later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:34:02 -0800 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Last time before purchasedieselhead opinion poll At 07:55 PM 2/20/04 , Jason R Bassett wrote: >The air filter and oil are dirty. As someone else mentioned, oil on the air filter could be a sign of piston blow by coming through the hose. It could also be from worn valve guide seals. Another possibility as the source of this oil is the vacuum pump. A torn diaphragm will leak oil to the air filter. It will also leak into the vacuum side and eventually destroy the hose/check valve as well as the brake booster. Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:25:50 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Uuuugh..... So I made the decision to tear into my braking system and was suprised with a frozen caliper. Im thinking of replacing both but when I inquired at the local parts place regarding the part they wanted to know if my car had Bendix or ATE braking system. I have a feeling that they just don't know what they are doing and either will work but there is a price difference. Anybody care to shed some light on this subject for me? Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:45:50 -0500 From: Paul Brown Subject: Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) An even cheaper decision would be to order a rebuild kit and replace the rubber parts yourself. Educational, too, to remove a piston and see what years of moisture has generated while nobody was looking. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:10:06 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Heh heh, Did I mention the caliper was frozen? As in after trying to push it in with several LARGE C clamps I failed miserably? Its chipped on one corner so it looks like the previous owner must have let some idiots service the brakes. If I could get the piston out of the caliper I would be happy. Of course this is after even removing the caliper from the car. Robert Chase Paul Brown wrote: > An even cheaper decision would be to order a rebuild kit and replace the > rubber parts yourself. Educational, too, to remove a piston and see > what years of moisture has generated while nobody was looking. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:19:47 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Robert asked: > Uuuugh..... OK...he moaned... > So I made the decision to tear into my braking system and was suprised > with a frozen caliper. Im thinking of replacing both but when I > inquired at the local parts place regarding the part they wanted to know > if my car had Bendix or ATE braking system. I have a feeling that they > just don't know what they are doing and either will work but there is a > price difference. Anybody care to shed some light on this subject for me? The manufacturer is stamped on the caliper. I think it's ATE, but maybe not. Girling comes to mind, but I think those were used on VW's. I didn't think Bendix made calipers for our beasts. It doesn't sound like a rebuild will not do much good, even it you get the pistons out... Jon '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:34:08 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) I've gotten REAL lazy in my old age ;) In my experience the pads need to be replaced when the caliper freezes up. When I price the pads and the rebuild kit, it only costs a few bucks more and I get pre- loaded rebuild calipers. Two bolts & the flex line off... Two bolts and the flex line on... I'm done ;) Jim/ > An even cheaper decision would be to order a rebuild kit and replace the > rubber parts yourself. Educational, too, to remove a piston and see > what years of moisture has generated while nobody was looking. > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:47:47 -0500 From: Paul Brown Subject: Re: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) Unless you have a bigger tool chest than I have, don't try to remove pistons from calipers when the caliper is off the car. Instead, remove the pads from the caliper. (If one piston only is frozen, remove only the corresponding pad.) Turn on the engine to provide vacuum to the power brake system. Stomp on the brake pedal as if it was your 3 year old daughter in front of the car and you were doing 40 mph (as contrasted with the amount of pedal pressure you would use if the lady down the street who lets her dog do its business on your lawn were in front of the car). Do it again. And again. Examine caliper. "Frozen" piston should have moved substantially. Repeat braking motions until piston is against brake rotor. Remove remaining pad. Press repeatedly on brake until second piston is against rotor. (Pedal pressure requrired should be considerably less for freely-moving piston.) Disconnect brake line from caliper, allowing line to drain into suitable container. Remove freely-moving piston from caliper. Curse as 40 ml of brake fluid runs over hands. Remove remaining piston from caliper, using pliers or vice grips on unpolished portion of piston as necessary. Examine polished surfaces of pistons & machined surfaces of piston bores to determine if you should just have bought a new caliper in the first place. Robert Chase wrote: > Heh heh, > > Did I mention the caliper was frozen? As in after trying to push it in > with several LARGE C clamps I failed miserably? Its chipped on one > corner so it looks like the previous owner must have let some idiots > service the brakes. If I could get the piston out of the caliper I > would be happy. Of course this is after even removing the caliper from > the car. > Robert Chase > > > Paul Brown wrote: > >> An even cheaper decision would be to order a rebuild kit and replace the >> rubber parts yourself. Educational, too, to remove a piston and see >> what years of moisture has generated while nobody was looking. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:55:54 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) There were in fact a couple of different suppliers of calipers, and it seems that MB switched back and forth between them repeatedly, so it's not like some other parts where any car below a certain VIN number has brand A and after that VIN has brand B. As someone mentioned, the brand will be pretty clearly visible on the caliper somewhere. That's your most reliable way to determine it. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Robert Chase > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 12:26 PM > To: 126-at-mbz.org; 'Diesel Benz' > Subject: [db] Brakes or the distinct lack therof :) > > > Uuuugh..... > > So I made the decision to tear into my braking system and was suprised > with a frozen caliper. Im thinking of replacing both but when I > inquired at the local parts place regarding the part they wanted to know > if my car had Bendix or ATE braking system. I have a feeling that they > just don't know what they are doing and either will work but there is a > price difference. Anybody care to shed some light on this subject for me? > > Robert Chase ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1372 **********************************