From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 27 20:33:45 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, February 28 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1379 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 Re: [db] VW TDI question Re: [db] RE: Diesel vs Gas MB E model Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 Re: [db] VW TDI question [db] Humbled! Re: [db] Humbled! RE: [db] Humbled! [db] ot: road warrior "on ramps'? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:46:45 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 Robert, Thanks for the definitive thumbnail on the SD diesels! Vernon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:07:51 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 Robert and everybody, Since we've been discussing early Mercedes SD cars today and yesterday, I wish to provide y'all a heads up that one is being auctioned off this weekend in Houston by http://www.texascarsforkids.org Normally I would be tempted to buy it myself since some people I know... (and wild horses couldn't drag Waylon Black's name out of me...) and I are hopeless car freaks... However, I'm gonna be brave. But only 'cause I'm broke... If somebody out of state buys it you can drag it to my house (80 miles away) 'til you can do sumpin' widdit. Regards, Vernon 1821892 28 1982 Mercedes SD WDBAB33A8CB012344 245089 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 06:33:26 -0800 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 At 06:07 AM 2/27/04 , Vernon Tuck wrote: >Robert and everybody, > >Since we've been discussing early Mercedes SD cars today and yesterday, I >wish to provide y'all a heads up that one is being auctioned off this >weekend in Houston by http://www.texascarsforkids.org Wow! I like that 300SD body style variation! A 2-door! I never thought they put diesel engines in one of those! Too bad it's already sold. Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:47:53 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 No it's not already sold. It will sell tomorrow (Saturday) at auction. As regards those auctions, Waylon gets credit for bring them to my attention. And since he's participated in them (and I have not) he's the resident expert on how they work. > At 06:07 AM 2/27/04 , Vernon Tuck wrote: >Robert and everybody, > >Since we've been discussing early Mercedes SD cars today and yesterday, I >wish to provide y'all a heads up that one is being auctioned off this >weekend in Houston by http://www.texascarsforkids.org Wow! I like that 300SD body style variation! A 2-door! I never thought they put diesel engines in one of those! Too bad it's already sold. Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:32:53 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] VW TDI question > Actually, > > Perhaps soon fuel economy will be measured in "soldiers per gallon" and > they will have a payment plan at the gas station due to the high cost. > Then again perhaps that day is already here? Let's not go there again... It's just sick and you know it! Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:54:58 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: Diesel vs Gas MB E model On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Vernon Tuck wrote: >-->Wasn't there a Jeep which came with a Peugeot diesel engine, produced at >-->some time and in some part of the world?? yes, I think so... the CJ series... they also used the Perkins Diesel. current/recent models in Europe have used the VM Diesel (Italian) john >--> >-->What's interesting about Peugeot is, to my understanding, they were the >-->first auto manufacturer to put a diesel engine into a car. >--> >-->On that basis alone I bought an engine out of a late 70s 504 station wagon >-->in the hopes that I could some day transplant it into a Jeep. >--> >-->Another one of my hare brained ideas... >--> >-->VT >--> >-->On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Greg Hancock wrote: >--> >-->>-->John, >-->>-->I noticed your mention below of a turbo diesel Jeep XJ >-->>-->and wanted to ask you for more information on this >-->>-->interesting beast. I have a '96 XJ and would love to >-->>-->convert it to diesel when the engine croaks... what >-->>-->engine did you use and how difficult was the swap? Did >-->>-->you do it yourself, or did you hire it out? What do >-->>-->you get for fuel economy? >--> >-->It was factory... 85-87 2.1L All-aluminum Renault Turbo Diesel... >-->it produced 85 bhp and 115ft lbs of torque... it actually put >-->out 2 more hp then the carb'd version of the 2.5l! >--> >-->It got 26/32 with the 5speed. It did 0 to 60 in about 19 seconds >-->or so... was pretty useless as a tow vehicle. :) 1st gear >-->was too tall to get rolling with a load... I'd have to use >-->low range to get rolling then pop into into 2wd high while >-->rolling forward. :) >--> >-->Parts were expensive and rare... unless of course you >-->had a french connection. ;) It was typical french bleeding >-->edge design... timing belt that had to be changed, alternator >-->compliments of paris-rhone that failed often. used a bosch >-->injection pump and an air-garret turbo. The 5spd tranny >-->was a pathetic excuse for a gear box, I think it was french >-->as well. :) >--> >-->All in all I loved it and if it would have had an automatic >-->I would have kept it. But that clutch setup in the XJ's did >-->a number of my fifth lumbar and I had to part with it... :( >--> >--> >-->>-->I hope you don't mind the questions, but I've always >-->>-->wondered if such an engine swap was possible and, if >-->>-->so, how hard it would be. >--> >-->they actually make the Jeep Cherokees with Diesels all over >-->the world, except for here in the good ole U S of A... >--> >-->I suppose with have GM and the greenies to thank for it... >--> >-->I am considering using a Mercedes 3.0L Turbo Diesel into >-->an '87... but I'm not sure what will give out first... the >-->'87 4.0L with 238,600 miles or the chassis itself... both >-->are doing quite well. :) >--> >-->Jeep claims that in 2004 the Liberty will have a Turbo Diesel >-->option... I've yet to see it advertised though. :( >--> >-->Knowing how much pain and suffering, and time, is involved >-->in doing a conversion, I think I'd get over my aversion >-->to the toon-town looks and the non-solid axles of the KJ >-->to get one with a Diesel. :) >--> >-->BTW, I'm using a '96 4.0L out of an XJ in my '83 J10 stepside... >-->it's been in work for a long, long time now... :( >--> >-->ttyl, >-->john >--> >-->>-->Cheers, >-->>--> >-->>-->Greg Hancock >-->>-->Seattle >-->>--> >-->>-->---------------------------------------- >-->>--> >-->>-->Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:21:32 -0800 >-->>-->From: john >-->>-->Subject: Diesel vs Gas MB E model >-->>--> >-->>-->>I'm sure this must be a old topic, but perhaps one >-->>-->worth revisiting. I = >-->>-->>posted this to alt.auto.mercedes and thought it would >-->>-->be appropriate to = >-->>-->>get opinions from all you diesel owners.=20 >-->>-->> >-->>-->>I currently own a 98 C280, which my wife drives. I >-->>-->will be looking at >-->>-->>something larger in the MB line for myself. >-->>-->> >-->>-->>I've been considering a E type diesel Vs gas. The >-->>-->acceleration issue of = >-->>-->>the >-->>-->>diesel isn't a major problem for me, and the thought >-->>-->of 250,000 plus = >-->>-->>miles >-->>-->>on the engine sounds attractive. But reviews of added >-->>-->engine = >-->>-->>maintenance, annoying vibration at idle, and >-->>-->excessive noise at cruise = >-->>-->>discourage me (along with hanging out at truck stops >-->>-->:-) ). >-->>-->> >-->>-->>Any thoughts from the group? >-->>-->> >-->>-->>Scott Mack >-->>-->Scott, >-->>--> >-->>-->First thing, please do not email HTML versions to the >-->>-->list, they >-->>-->bounce and I have to fix it... :) I'm forwarding your >-->>-->note to the list. >-->>--> >-->>-->Second, EXCELLENT topic. >-->>--> >-->>-->Third, I've had 4 Mercedes, 3 Diesel, 1 gas. The gas >-->>-->rig didn't hold >-->>-->up as well, was exceedingly thirsty and costly to >-->>-->repair. Didn't have >-->>-->as much resale and isn't running right now because the >-->>-->owner broke the >-->>-->exhaust manifolds on the 4.5L V8 gas engine, $650 a >-->>-->side to replace!!! >-->>--> >-->>-->The Mercedes Diesels are not that noisy, especially in >-->>-->the cabin. I've >-->>-->had many Diesels, American and European. The Mercedes >-->>-->Diesels are the >-->>-->finest, easiest to find parts for and very easy to >-->>-->work on. >-->>--> >-->>-->As far as fuel, most Texaco, Shells and so on have >-->>-->Diesel, even in the new >-->>-->stores with the fast food outlets. I've also got a >-->>-->commercial card lock >-->>-->that I've used to fuel up with those truckers up and >-->>-->down the west coast. >-->>--> >-->>-->Never, ever in over 15 years of driving a Dieselmobile >-->>-->have I had problems >-->>-->finding fuel. >-->>--> >-->>-->When I was filmed by a promotional video group by Jeep >-->>-->this summer I tried >-->>-->to get the Diesel message to Chrysler that we want the >-->>-->Big Jeep (SJ's - the >-->>-->Grand Wagoneers) brought back with Diesels. :) It >-->>-->didn't make it into the >-->>-->video they showed at the Jeep Camp though... :) >-->>--> >-->>-->The latest issue of STAR (MB club of America Magazine) >-->>-->talks about a cabby >-->>-->back east using the E300 Turbo Diesel and loving it. >-->>--> IT's a beautiful >-->>-->car, wish I could afford a new benz, because it'd be a >-->>-->toss up between that >-->>-->and the ML series... I hope they do make the ML270TD >-->>-->available stateside. >-->>--> >-->>-->Diesel rules, gas stinks... :) >-->>--> >-->>-->(I had an 85 xj cherokee with the 2.1L Turbo Diesel, >-->>-->on 4x4 runs >-->>-->I used the handle "diesel john".) >-->>--> >-->>-->later, >-->>-->john >-->>--> >-->>-->- ---------------------------------------------- >-->>-->john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com >-->>--> >-->>--> Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... >-->>--> ------------ >-->>--> http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html >-->>--> Jesus - don't leave life without him... >-->>-->- ---------------------------------------------------- >-->>--> >-->>-->__________________________________ >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:06:09 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Rebuilding the M603.961 No problem..... Good luck on finding a good diesel whatever it may be :) Robert. Vernon Tuck wrote: >Robert, > >Thanks for the definitive thumbnail on the SD diesels! > >Vernon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 15:37:25 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] VW TDI question Jim, Just an FYI. My initial message was diesel benz related. YOU are the one that decided to comment on PART of my message. I responded to your comment regarding my initial diesel related comment. Have a good day Robert Chase Jim Hoffman wrote: >Well, you can think what you want but I asked a question about >*diesel* vehicles (maybe not MB but an area of expertise of the list) >and this isn't the *offtopic* list. > >Jim/ > > > >>Sick but unfortunatly true. A good friend of mine who is getting shot >>at every day in that s**t hole calls it operation 88 cents per gallon. >> >>Robert Chase >> >> >>Jim Hoffman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>Actually, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Perhaps soon fuel economy will be measured in "soldiers per gallon" and >>>>they will have a payment plan at the gas station due to the high cost. >>>>Then again perhaps that day is already here? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Let's not go there again... It's just sick and you know it! >>> >>>Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:05:41 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: [db] Humbled! I tackled the glow plugs in my '87 190DT today. Or, to be more precise, I started to tackle my glow plugs. It's simply not possible to get to the plugs without removing the intake manifold and turbo crossover pipe. That involves removing the injection tubes, the accelerator linkage, and the cruise control, among other things. I should have bought a gasket set, as now I'm stuck with the car disassembled and no gaskets. I just hope I remember how it all goes back. I've lost a bolt and a screwdriver so far, I'm sure they'll turn up. I just hope they don't turn up in a bad place. Here's the question. When the manifold came off, was shocked at what was in it. I've seen carbon deposits before, but the manifold was packed, and I mean packed, with something about the consistency of tar. I used every scraper and brush I had, and the tools are so goopy I'm inclined to toss them. Usually, a spritz of carb cleaner will take care of whatever the problem is. In this case, chipping, brushing and scraping produced a pile of about a pound (!) of tar-like goop. But it's not done. I can't get any more out with tools, I need to find a solvent. Is this normal? Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:30:23 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] Humbled! Mike Frank wrote: > > Here's the question. When the manifold came off, was shocked at what was in > it. I've seen carbon deposits before, but the manifold was packed, and I > mean packed, with something about the consistency of tar. I used every > scraper and brush I had, and the tools are so goopy I'm inclined to toss *** Just imagine how much better it'll run when all that crap is out! Might have been worth taking it to a shop to get cold tanked, but you've probably got most of it out already. Have you tried lacquer thinner? I might up the ante to MEK if lacquer thinner didn't handle it. But make sure you have plenty of ventilation. Another possibility might be "Easy-Off" oven cleaner. Use PLENTY of ventilation! And gloves. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:51:31 -0800 From: "derick amburgey" Subject: RE: [db] Humbled! Yes, I had the same build up in my 1985 and 84 190D when I tore them apart to rebuild. Fortunatley I was able to use the parts washer in the facility I work at. The cleaning solvent the washer uses is nothing more than concentrated citrus dishwashing soap. I had to use a bottle brush to get what the washer could not reach. (everything in the center of the manifold) Before you put everything back together inspect your valve cover breather tubes. Mine were plugged with gook. I would not be surprised if yours where in need of a bypass operation... ;) Good luck, Derick - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Mike Frank Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 6:06 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] Humbled! I tackled the glow plugs in my '87 190DT today. Or, to be more precise, I started to tackle my glow plugs. It's simply not possible to get to the plugs without removing the intake manifold and turbo crossover pipe. That involves removing the injection tubes, the accelerator linkage, and the cruise control, among other things. I should have bought a gasket set, as now I'm stuck with the car disassembled and no gaskets. I just hope I remember how it all goes back. I've lost a bolt and a screwdriver so far, I'm sure they'll turn up. I just hope they don't turn up in a bad place. Here's the question. When the manifold came off, was shocked at what was in it. I've seen carbon deposits before, but the manifold was packed, and I mean packed, with something about the consistency of tar. I used every scraper and brush I had, and the tools are so goopy I'm inclined to toss them. Usually, a spritz of carb cleaner will take care of whatever the problem is. In this case, chipping, brushing and scraping produced a pile of about a pound (!) of tar-like goop. But it's not done. I can't get any more out with tools, I need to find a solvent. Is this normal? Mike Frank - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.596 / Virus Database: 379 - Release Date: 2/26/2004 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.596 / Virus Database: 379 - Release Date: 2/26/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:05:24 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] ot: road warrior "on ramps'? It looks like I'm going to be doing the road warrior gig through April... flying down to Tucson on Sunday to teach three days of Solaris, week and a half later back down to Oregon for 2 days of Solaris, then the end of March in MO for a day of HP-UX and Solaris and three days of Linux... then maybe three weeks in PA... I think Denver and Red Hat are part of the mix too... If I could line 'em all up at once I could just drive to 'em all, but it never works that nicely. :) (BTW, my '91 300d got 37.8mpg on the trip home from the last Linux class in Oregon!!!) anyway... my question is this... what's a suitable and inexpensive dialup service that I can access in places like Sierra Vista, AZ, Mount Poconno, PA, Denver, CO, and Jefferson City, MO??? At least in Oregon the hotel had high speed internet access in the room... I've got a netzero dialup but all the crap that came through in ads and popups isn't worth the "free" part. Any thoughts on using Earthlink? I had a trial account when I was back in PA a couple years ago and it was ok... The other option is to use my cell phone (14.4k connect) and pay my existing isp for dialup access... :( thanx, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1379 **********************************