From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Mar 2 13:36:31 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, March 2 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1384 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] ahh lovely [db] RE: [3-0-0] Main Bearings Re: [db] Rube Goldberg Re: [db] RE: [3-0-0] Main Bearings [db] Re: fuel prices Re: [db] Re: fuel prices Re: [db] Re: fuel prices Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:51:01 -0800 (PST) From: hue wong Subject: Re: [db] ahh lovely I drove all sumer last sumer on a 25-75 mix non-heated, just poured it in and went. I got my oil from the burger place downt he street. Had to filter it a few times before use, but it worked great! (but I wonder now if this could be why my ruber parts seem to be starting to fail now.... or it could just be time for the 100k seal replacment to start...) Can't wait till it warms up a bit more here in Seattle I'm thinking of picking up a 240d and doing a full conversion based on last years preformance... (I'd swear I had more power as well, just a hair... Can't w - --- "S.D.Byers" wrote: > just drove to work on almost pure SVO, no heating > required, a little > leftover diesel in the tank, life is good. Smells > great. I fill from jerry > cans stored in the basement. > > I am looking forward to the 3USD gallon, assuming I > can keep up the supply > of oil from the morrocan restaurant I get it from. > > SDB __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you^Rre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:52:40 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Mangrum Subject: [db] RE: [3-0-0] Main Bearings The oil pressure guage on my 1982 300D Turbo Diesel reads below 2 bar when idling at ~700 RPM. It seems lower since I put 0w40 synthetic in at last oil change. Seems awful low to me. It has 130K miles. Should I worry? Thanks. Jim Thompson wrote: MGM, How did you arrive at this conclusion? The only time I've had a main bearing problem in over 50 years of driving, I heard enough noise from the engine compartment to cause me to shut it down and investigate the source. My '78 450 with 280,000 miles on the original engine is beginning to show a drop of oil pressure to 15lbs at slow hot idle when in gear, but it comes back up when I shift to neutral. There's a little bearing noise on a hot start until the oil pressure builds up, but I'm not considering a tear-down yet. JIM THOMPSON, BROKER, ABR, CRS PRUDENTIAL NORTHWEST PROPERTIES 19283 SW MARTINAZZI AVE TUALATIN, OR97062 ofc 503-692-0250 vml 503-350-7719 fax 503-692-5409 cel 503-890-2255 e-certified jthompson-at-pru-nw.com www.jimthompsoncrs.com - -----Original Message----- From: mail [mailto:mail-at-3-0-0.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:15 PM To: 300club-at-yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [3-0-0] Main Bearings MGM, I am actually very curious on your assignment of the oil drop pressure to worn main bearings. Do you mean to imply that some bearings are worn more than others so when piston pressure increases they slightly deform the crankshaft to allow for oil pressure loss? This is-I believe-the only 6 cylinder engine ever with SEVEN main bearings, designed to prevent flexing of the crankshaft and the concomitant vibrations. If anything, I would suspect unevenly worn crankshaft journals rather. Either way, to replace main bearings or to fix the crankshaft, the latter must come off, which means loose rods and front end paraphernalia: damper, chain, etc--you'll be replacing the front and rear seal, no? I personally find the job impossible from under the car and I would not hesitate to get the engine/tranny out for the job and attend to other oil seals on the occasion. This is not to dampen your enthusiasm to work from under the car, but the prospect of the chinese torture on top of a sore back would deprive me of sleep... Konstantinos > ________________ > mgm writes>>>So how's the car doing today? Any news? > > I have been amassing a small number of projects that will require > attention before driving my car this spring. The most pressing is > coming to grips with why the mechanical section of the secondaries > are not opening at the same time. > > Today I'm going to drain the oil in preparation for opening the oil > pan to check the main bearings. > > If you are traveling at, say, thirty MPH with the engine warmed up, > and tromping on the accelerator causes even a slight, short- > duration dip in oil pressure, it is a sign that the main bearings > need replacing. The mechanical reality is that downward forces on > the crankshaft, brought on by wide throttle openings at low RPM, > shove the crank downward in its bearings. If there is an > overabundance of space between bearing and journal, there will be a > subsequent drop in oil pressure. > > Fortunately, this can all be done engine in place, even though it is > a little annoying from below. The biggest pain is that there seems > to be a never ending supply of oil to leak on your head, so draining > the oil long before you do the job is a good idea. - ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Yahoo! Autos. Everything you need to know about buying or selling a car. FREE Quotes, 3600 Tours, Research, Blue Book, Compare Vehicles, Buy Used http://us.click.yahoo.com/kEZsdA/bwnGAA/YiGOAA/3nTolB/TM - ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/300club/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 300club-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/300club/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 300club-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Mike M. in Ann Arbor, MI '74 914 2.0, '75 914 1.8, '82 300D TurboDiesel Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends Yahoo! Search - Find what you^Rre looking for faster. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:22:27 +0000 From: "Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI" Subject: Re: [db] Rube Goldberg My mailbox was recently graced by a missive from Jon Filina who wrote: > >>The VW drums may have been no different than any other car, but they > >>sure seemed convoluted to me... > > Nothing wrong with VW drums until they replaced cable operation with those > > new-fangled hydraulics around 1952. > That new technology always trips me up.... > Ya got any pictures? Have you looked on my website ? Under the "K|belwagens and War-Time VWs" header ? Cheers, Ron. - -- If at first you dont succeed, give up. -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:43:21 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] RE: [3-0-0] Main Bearings Mike, Nothing to worry about there. I have found that the oil pressure varies from car to car. Some healtly cars idle at around 1 bar. What you are worried about is how quickly it pegs the needle. You should peg it right after putting in some power. If it takes a long time or it never pegs the needle then you should worry. There are a lot of opinions on synthetic oil and here is mine. Synthetic was initially designed for jet aircraft engines that spin in excess of 10k rpm. Synthetic is designed to not break down under high thermal and frictional conditions. Quite honestly there is not a car on the road that can put the stress on an oil as much as the lowest powered jet engine. Engines wear over time and convential dyno oil over time turns into a "laquer" type substance that fills in the gaps of where your metal has worn away. It in some cases will increase compression. Synthetic oil is not capable of this. Supposedly synthetic has better lubricating qualities but quite honestly I have never seen any scientific test results on it. Putting two types of oil in a car and destructive testing is not scientific at all. In older engines that have run dyno oil in them for most of their lives I would really reccomend sticking to dyno oil. Some of the synthetics have detergents in them that try to "clean your engine" and may end up cleaning out some of your compression. On a new car I might be interested in trying syntetic because you get more time between oil changes. But quite honestly in my opinion until more scientific testing (by car makers) is done the jury is still out if it makes your engine last longer. Just like anti lock brakes synthetic oil has come out of the aviation industry as something for a marketing buzz word to sell more products. Although there are some good things that came out of the aviation industry that are really useful products. Seatbelts are a prime example Im so glad that guy from Volvo stole the concept. :) Robert Chase Mike Mangrum wrote: >The oil pressure guage on my 1982 300D Turbo Diesel reads below 2 bar when idling at ~700 RPM. It seems lower since I put 0w40 synthetic in at last oil change. Seems awful low to me. It has 130K miles. Should I worry? > >Thanks. > >Jim Thompson wrote: > >MGM, How did you arrive at this conclusion? The only time I've had a main bearing problem in over 50 years of driving, I heard enough noise from the engine compartment to cause me to shut it down and investigate the source. My '78 450 with 280,000 miles on the original engine is beginning to show a drop of oil pressure to 15lbs at slow hot idle when in gear, but it comes back up when I shift to neutral. There's a little bearing noise on a hot start until the oil pressure builds up, but I'm not considering a tear-down yet. > >JIM THOMPSON, BROKER, ABR, CRS >PRUDENTIAL NORTHWEST PROPERTIES >19283 SW MARTINAZZI AVE >TUALATIN, OR97062 > >ofc 503-692-0250 >vml 503-350-7719 >fax 503-692-5409 >cel 503-890-2255 > >e-certified >jthompson-at-pru-nw.com >www.jimthompsoncrs.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mail [mailto:mail-at-3-0-0.com] >Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:15 PM >To: 300club-at-yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [3-0-0] Main Bearings > >MGM, I am actually very curious on your assignment of the oil drop >pressure to worn main bearings. Do you mean to imply that some >bearings are worn more than others so when piston pressure >increases they slightly deform the crankshaft to allow for oil pressure >loss? This is-I believe-the only 6 cylinder engine ever with SEVEN main >bearings, designed to prevent flexing of the crankshaft and the >concomitant vibrations. If anything, I would suspect unevenly worn >crankshaft journals rather. > >Either way, to replace main bearings or to fix the crankshaft, the latter >must come off, which means loose rods and front end paraphernalia: >damper, chain, etc--you'll be replacing the front and rear seal, no? I >personally find the job impossible from under the car and I would not >hesitate to get the engine/tranny out for the job and attend to other oil >seals on the occasion. This is not to dampen your enthusiasm to work >from under the car, but the prospect of the chinese torture on top of a >sore back would deprive me of sleep... > >Konstantinos > > >>________________ >>mgm writes>>>So how's the car doing today? Any news? >> >>I have been amassing a small number of projects that will require >>attention before driving my car this spring. The most pressing is >>coming to grips with why the mechanical section of the secondaries >>are not opening at the same time. >> >>Today I'm going to drain the oil in preparation for opening the oil >>pan to check the main bearings. >> >>If you are traveling at, say, thirty MPH with the engine warmed up, >> and tromping on the accelerator causes even a slight, short- >>duration dip in oil pressure, it is a sign that the main bearings >>need replacing. The mechanical reality is that downward forces on >>the crankshaft, brought on by wide throttle openings at low RPM, >>shove the crank downward in its bearings. If there is an >>overabundance of space between bearing and journal, there will be a >>subsequent drop in oil pressure. >> >>Fortunately, this can all be done engine in place, even though it is >>a little annoying from below. The biggest pain is that there seems >>to be a never ending supply of oil to leak on your head, so draining >>the oil long before you do the job is a good idea. >> >> > > > > > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Yahoo! Autos. Everything you need to know about buying or selling a car. FREE Quotes, 3600 Tours, Research, >Blue Book, Compare Vehicles, Buy Used >http://us.click.yahoo.com/kEZsdA/bwnGAA/YiGOAA/3nTolB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ><*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/300club/ > ><*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > 300club-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > ><*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/300club/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >300club-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >Mike M. in Ann Arbor, MI >'74 914 2.0, '75 914 1.8, '82 300D TurboDiesel >Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz >My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends >Yahoo! Search - Find what you^Rre looking for faster. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:51:12 -0600 From: flash Subject: [db] Re: fuel prices > If we want to sock it to the oil companies we should be thinking about > where we live and how we get to work. Going to work on public > transportation can really help reduce the amount of fuel you use. When > I worked for CNN (wow those old memories of being a productive member of > society and having employment) we had a parking problem at CNN center. > I rode the train to work because parking was $12/day at the parking deck > there. It actually saved me a lot of money and wear and tear on my > car. I drove my car 1 mile a day to the train station and sat and read > books on the train when I would be sitting in traffic. CNN had a setup > with our public transportation system MARTA and I actually was able to > ride the train for free. > > But as Americans its our right to have huge cars and by god some of us > are not going to learn until it hurts us in the pocket book. Such is > life. Have fun filling up the tank when the bill comes to $80. > > Robert Chase I agree with what you say. This proposal was not about buying gas on certain days. This proposal was about not buying gas from one certain LARGE producer and forcing his prices to drop thus forcing other prices to drop accross the board. Plausible, but we really gotta git less gas tank dependent. Rambling subdivisions assist in our dependence on gas tanks, sadly. I drive 50 minutes each way otherwise I would be on a bicycle again. I am trying to do van/car pool - small improvements, but not enough really. Dan ChicagoArea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:04:52 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Mangrum Subject: Re: [db] Re: fuel prices Most gasoline comes from the same pool of suppliers. Each retail chain (Mobile, BP, etc.) put in their additives before it goes into our tanks. So I don't know if the proposed model would work since I doubt the profit margin is very large between wholesale and retail. Probably only a few cents is made on each gallon. A change in US attitude, and current political power, is needed. flash wrote: > If we want to sock it to the oil companies we should be thinking about > where we live and how we get to work. Going to work on public > transportation can really help reduce the amount of fuel you use. When > I worked for CNN (wow those old memories of being a productive member of > society and having employment) we had a parking problem at CNN center. > I rode the train to work because parking was $12/day at the parking deck > there. It actually saved me a lot of money and wear and tear on my > car. I drove my car 1 mile a day to the train station and sat and read > books on the train when I would be sitting in traffic. CNN had a setup > with our public transportation system MARTA and I actually was able to > ride the train for free. > > But as Americans its our right to have huge cars and by god some of us > are not going to learn until it hurts us in the pocket book. Such is > life. Have fun filling up the tank when the bill comes to $80. > > Robert Chase I agree with what you say. This proposal was not about buying gas on certain days. This proposal was about not buying gas from one certain LARGE producer and forcing his prices to drop thus forcing other prices to drop accross the board. Plausible, but we really gotta git less gas tank dependent. Rambling subdivisions assist in our dependence on gas tanks, sadly. I drive 50 minutes each way otherwise I would be on a bicycle again. I am trying to do van/car pool - small improvements, but not enough really. Dan ChicagoArea Mike M. in Ann Arbor, MI '74 914 2.0, '75 914 1.8, '82 300D TurboDiesel Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends Yahoo! Search - Find what you^Rre looking for faster. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:33:43 -0800 (PST) From: hue wong Subject: Re: [db] Re: fuel prices Then of course there was that Pentagon report on global warming. If half of it comes true, we are in for a world of hurt in the next 15 years or so. I'm even to the point where I'm doing mass transit as much as I can and have polished up the old bike. Not much, but every bit helps I guess... But I think in the land of needless SUV's and the mentalities that drive them, I doubt it will come to much good... (but at least MY hart will be stronger after a summer of peddle power! ;-) - --- flash wrote: > > If we want to sock it to the oil companies we > should be thinking about > > where we live and how we get to work. Going to > work on public > > transportation can really help reduce the amount > of fuel you use. When > > I worked for CNN (wow those old memories of being > a productive member of > > society and having employment) we had a parking > problem at CNN center. > > I rode the train to work because parking was > $12/day at the parking deck > > there. It actually saved me a lot of money and > wear and tear on my > > car. I drove my car 1 mile a day to the train > station and sat and read > > books on the train when I would be sitting in > traffic. CNN had a setup > > with our public transportation system MARTA and I > actually was able to > > ride the train for free. > > > > But as Americans its our right to have huge cars > and by god some of us > > are not going to learn until it hurts us in the > pocket book. Such is > > life. Have fun filling up the tank when the bill > comes to $80. > > > > Robert Chase > > I agree with what you say. > This proposal was not about buying gas on certain > days. > This proposal was about not buying gas from one > certain LARGE producer and forcing his prices > to drop thus forcing other prices to drop accross > the board. Plausible, but we really gotta > git less gas tank dependent. Rambling subdivisions > assist in our dependence on gas tanks, > sadly. I drive 50 minutes each way otherwise I > would be on a bicycle again. I am trying to do > van/car pool - small improvements, but not enough > really. > Dan ChicagoArea __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you^Rre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1384 **********************************