From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Mar 5 13:01:21 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 5 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1387 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] smelled smoke... RE: [db] smelled smoke... Re: [db] smelled smoke... Re: [db] smelled smoke... RE: [db] smelled smoke... [db] M603 Re: [db] smelled smoke... Re: [db] M603 Re: [db] smelled smoke... Re: [db] smelled smoke... [db] Anybody heard of this company? [Fwd: Elsbett conversion kits to run engines on straight vegetable oil (SVO or WVO)] Re: [db] M603 Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:32:59 -0800 From: "DerickAA" Subject: Re: [db] smelled smoke... All you need to do is fill them back up with the right amount of "smoke". ;) Well at least it is obvious where some of the damage is anyhow..... Are you going to attempt a repair or replace the module? Derick - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john meister" To: "'dbl'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:20 PM Subject: [db] smelled smoke... > smelled smoke... went to turn on the switch to recirculate air in > the cabin... whazzthis? it's already on and won't turn off and > smoke is coming out the vents??? arghhhh.... > > Thankfully it doesn't look quite as serious when we got it apart, > all the wiring appears fine under the dash... > http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ClimateControls/ > > > john > > -- > ---- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com > where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.613 / Virus Database: 392 - Release Date: 3/4/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:54:23 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] smelled smoke... I'd venture a guess that this (http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ClimateControls/smoke-4.jpg) is NOT the way to resolder any bad connections in the climate control pushbutton unit. ;-) Let's keep our fingers crossed that the damage is all isolated to that unit. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of DerickAA > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:33 PM > To: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net; 'dbl' > Subject: Re: [db] smelled smoke... > > > All you need to do is fill them back up with the right amount of > "smoke". ;) > > Well at least it is obvious where some of the damage is anyhow..... > > Are you going to attempt a repair or replace the module? > > Derick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john meister" > To: "'dbl'" > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:20 PM > Subject: [db] smelled smoke... > > > > smelled smoke... went to turn on the switch to recirculate air in > > the cabin... whazzthis? it's already on and won't turn off and > > smoke is coming out the vents??? arghhhh.... > > > > Thankfully it doesn't look quite as serious when we got it apart, > > all the wiring appears fine under the dash... > > http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ClimateControls/ > > > > > > john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:37:07 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] smelled smoke... going to replace the module... I've done plenty of that kind of repair in my life... I've reverse engineered a number of systems like this and drawn schematics for them and then reengineered them... too busy cleaning spam out of my mail system now... ;) john DerickAA wrote: > All you need to do is fill them back up with the right amount of "smoke". ;) > > Well at least it is obvious where some of the damage is anyhow..... > > Are you going to attempt a repair or replace the module? > > Derick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john meister" > To: "'dbl'" > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:20 PM > Subject: [db] smelled smoke... > > > >>smelled smoke... went to turn on the switch to recirculate air in >>the cabin... whazzthis? it's already on and won't turn off and >>smoke is coming out the vents??? arghhhh.... >> >>Thankfully it doesn't look quite as serious when we got it apart, >>all the wiring appears fine under the dash... >>http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ClimateControls/ >> >> >>john >> >>-- >> ---- >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>* john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com >>where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.613 / Virus Database: 392 - Release Date: 3/4/2004 > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:46:32 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] smelled smoke... rofl... I have seen circuit boards in the aerospace industry that looked almost this bad... a south american airline sent a board to the company I worked for with NO parts on it and a hole in the board that looked slightly less worse then this and wanted me to explain what happened... so I did some research and found out that the original board had a defective capacitor that had leaked electrolyte onto the board and caused corrosion... then an inexperienced technician tried to repair the solder trace and burned a hole in the circuit board. :) My analysis was confirmed by a couple of failure analysts specialist types... not sure what the end customer was told about the part, they didn't let me talk to the airlines. :) In the meantime my mechanic friend has the circuit at home along with the 124 shop manual and is tracing what that was so we can test everything before we put the new unit in. Since everything was working well before it went up in smoke this was just a catastrophic failure of the control unit... hopefully... but my friend is the best I know at troubleshooting electrical systems on cars, he worked at the only shop I recommend to anyone and was THE guy to deal with problems like this. :) Plus I've got about 20 years of circuit design and electronics troubleshooting background as well, so between the two of us we should have shadowfax back on the road... only question is how to get rid of the smoke smell in the cabin. :( The estimate of parts right now is hovering around $300... if it goes much further I may file a comp claim on my insurance... I called them today and that comprehensive insurance I've been paying on for years should cover this problem. Since there are a few other electrical issues with the car, and have been since I owned it, we're going to look at replacing a couple other components while we're in here, especially if I decide to file a claim. When we drove down to Oregon a few weeks ago everything worked, but after a while the cruise control would just quit working... like it got hot or something... leave it off for a while and try it again and it was fine... I priced wiring harnesses and found that will get pricey quite quickly... just a short section of the ground harness is around $750... :( stand by for updates... it'll be a few days, my friend has a day job... ;) plus it'll take a couple days to get the parts here too... john Alec Cordova wrote: > I'd venture a guess that this > (http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ClimateControls/smoke-4.jpg) is > NOT the way to resolder any bad connections in the climate control > pushbutton unit. ;-) > > Let's keep our fingers crossed that the damage is all isolated to that unit. > > Alec > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of DerickAA >>Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:33 PM >>To: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net; 'dbl' >>Subject: Re: [db] smelled smoke... >> >> >>All you need to do is fill them back up with the right amount of >>"smoke". ;) >> >>Well at least it is obvious where some of the damage is anyhow..... >> >>Are you going to attempt a repair or replace the module? >> >>Derick >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "john meister" >>To: "'dbl'" >>Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:20 PM >>Subject: [db] smelled smoke... >> >> >> >>>smelled smoke... went to turn on the switch to recirculate air in >>>the cabin... whazzthis? it's already on and won't turn off and >>>smoke is coming out the vents??? arghhhh.... >>> >>>Thankfully it doesn't look quite as serious when we got it apart, >>>all the wiring appears fine under the dash... >>>http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ClimateControls/ >>> >>> >>>john > > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:52:44 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] smelled smoke... > only question > is how to get rid of the smoke smell in the cabin. :( > Wasn't it you that suggested coffee, ground or otherwise, as a universal auto interior deodorizer? I know it worked for me to get rid of cigarette smell, and it let me finally use the rest of some cheap flavored coffee that didn't taste at all good. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:45:04 -0800 From: "Daniel F. Tilley" Subject: [db] M603 I'm still intrigued by a 94-95 350SD. I love the W140 interiors and creature comforts. I know what problems to look for on a high miler - 1 qt of oil every 1,000 miles - but at what mileage do these problems start. Is there preventive steps to avoid an engine failure, short of rebuilding the engine? If you do need to rebuild the entire engine, can I assume that the block can only be bored out with specialty machinery only available in two or three places in the country? And that I'll have $2,500 in parts plus machine work and labor into the engine before I'm finished? Daniel F. Tilley ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:10:12 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] smelled smoke... hey, I forgot about that... was going to try Febreeze... will grab some of these useless decaf coffee packs... :) (A good reason to save 'em while staying in all these hotels while playing road warrior until I get a real job. :) john Alec Cordova wrote: >>only question >>is how to get rid of the smoke smell in the cabin. :( >> > > > Wasn't it you that suggested coffee, ground or otherwise, as a universal > auto interior deodorizer? I know it worked for me to get rid of cigarette > smell, and it let me finally use the rest of some cheap flavored coffee that > didn't taste at all good. > > Alec > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 04:11:42 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] M603 Daniel, Do yourself a big favor. Don't bother with the diesel. The cost of rebuilding the engine alone completely negates any advantages of the diesel engine. If you really have to do w140 do yourself a favor and find a low mileage early production S320/300SEL. They are cheaper and the engines will last longer and get "ok" fuel economy. For some unknown reason the uninformed line up in droves to pay outrageous money for the diesel 140's. Must be the same people paying $17k for 80's vintage North American SL's. Have you driven a w140 yet? Honestly I did not really care for the feel of the car. For a while I too was smitten with the technological gadgetry and spacious interior of the w140. That is until I started doing some research and actually drove one. While it was MUCH quieter and smooth than the w126 it sort of reminded me of a Lexus LS400 with a three pointed star you could barely see if you moved your seat up high enough. The road feel was very much reduced from that of the w126. For me the lack of road feel was a big deal killer as well as the price of parts for the cars. Oh.... Have you started checking parts prices? One could get whole 123 chassis car for the price of some interior oddities. Not to mention those expensive double insulated glass windows (Which aren't even bulletproof). As far as I am concerned Mercedes Benz ceased production on the S class in 1994 when the final South African w-126 rolled off of the assembly line. In the future I MIGHT consider a w140 again but it won't be a diesel. The lack of road feel might appeal to me when I start going gray. And given some time the parts prices will start to go down or the cars will start dissapearing like the early 7 series cars have when the owners start canabalizing cars for low cost parts for their drivable car. Robert Chase Daniel F. Tilley wrote: >I'm still intrigued by a 94-95 350SD. I love the W140 interiors and >creature comforts. I know what problems to look for on a high miler - 1 >qt of oil every 1,000 miles - but at what mileage do these problems >start. Is there preventive steps to avoid an engine failure, short of >rebuilding the engine? If you do need to rebuild the entire engine, can >I assume that the block can only be bored out with specialty machinery >only available in two or three places in the country? And that I'll have >$2,500 in parts plus machine work and labor into the engine before I'm >finished? > > >Daniel F. Tilley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 04:17:33 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] smelled smoke... John, Wipe down all the interior surfaces as well. Smoke particles tend to stick to glass plastic and other surfaces and "linger" in the car as the particles fall get moved around the interior by movement and air circulation. Additionally you will be able to see better through the windshield. You may want to consider blasting some compressed air through your vents since your vents are probably also lined with the smoke particles from pouring it out into the cabin of the car. Something I learned from flying little planes with scary electrical systems is the first time someone blows their lunch in your car you won't be able to ever tell there was an electrical problem at all. Then again some consider that vomit smell worse than burning electrical components. Perhaps you could test your handling after treating a car load of people to chinese buffet? Robert Chase john meister wrote: > hey, I forgot about that... was going to try Febreeze... will grab > some of these useless decaf coffee packs... :) (A good reason > to save 'em while staying in all these hotels while playing road warrior > until I get a real job. :) > > john > > Alec Cordova wrote: > >>> only question >>> is how to get rid of the smoke smell in the cabin. :( >>> >> >> >> Wasn't it you that suggested coffee, ground or otherwise, as a universal >> auto interior deodorizer? I know it worked for me to get rid of >> cigarette >> smell, and it let me finally use the rest of some cheap flavored >> coffee that >> didn't taste at all good. >> >> Alec ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 03:32:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] smelled smoke... Robert Chase wrote: > > John, > > Wipe down all the interior surfaces as well. Smoke particles tend to > stick to glass plastic and other surfaces and "linger" in the car as the > particles fall get moved around the interior by movement and air > circulation. *** Get a bottle of activated carbon from the fish store. Spread it out in a couple of trays. It will eat the smoke. I found out about this when I was researching activated carbon as an ozone eater. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:16:24 -0600 (CST) From: Walter Guess Subject: [db] Anybody heard of this company? [Fwd: Elsbett conversion kits to run engines on straight vegetable oil (SVO or WVO)] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Elsbett conversion kits to run engines on straight vegetable oil (SVO or WVO) From: alex.noack-at-t-online.de (alexander noack) Date: Fri, March 5, 2004 12:03 pm To: "Joy Noack" Dear ELSBETT-customers and people, who would like to be! between the 19 and 29th of March I will visit North Carolina ( Raleigh 19th-21st) and California (San Francisco 22nd - 29th) to visit and support our customers during some workshops. In case you have some urgent requests, you want to get some special information or you want to participate on some of these workshops or discussions, please contact me. Kind regards Alexander Noack Elsbett Technologie GmbH www.elsbett.com Germany Dear ELSBETT-customers and people, who would like to be! between the 19 and 29th of March I will visit North Carolina ( Raleigh 19th-21st) and California (San Francisco 22nd - 29th) to visit and support our customers during some workshops. In case you have some urgent requests, you want to get some special information or you want to participate on some of these workshops or discussions, please contact me. Kind regards Alexander NoackElsbett Technologie GmbHwww.elsbett.comGermany ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:31:03 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] M603 On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 08:45:04PM -0800, Daniel F. Tilley wrote: > I'm still intrigued by a 94-95 350SD. I love the W140 interiors and > creature comforts. I know what problems to look for on a high miler - 1 > qt of oil every 1,000 miles - but at what mileage do these problems > start. Is there preventive steps to avoid an engine failure, short of > rebuilding the engine? If you do need to rebuild the entire engine, can > I assume that the block can only be bored out with specialty machinery > only available in two or three places in the country? And that I'll have > $2,500 in parts plus machine work and labor into the engine before I'm > finished? There aren't any preventative steps to avoid engine failure. If you got a rod-bender, it's gonna do it regardless of if you baby it or make it work for a living. Well, I take that back, you can completely tear it down and replace the connecting rods with the upgraded model :) If you really want one of these, do your search for ones that have had a rebuilt/replacement engine installed recently (past few years), and can prove it with a receipt. If it was a Mercedes replacement engine, you're going to most likely be okay, as the replacement connecting rods were likely used in the engine (and enough of these have gone boomie that engines without the connecting rods upgraded are probably already in customers' cars with a bunch of miles on them). If it was a rebuilt, you'll want to do some legwork to find out what the rebuilder did. Most times, the rods aren't reusable because the engine literally bends them as part of the self destruct process. I like the power that these engines put out, and this is what I would do if I decided I wanted one. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1387 **********************************