From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Mar 11 12:56:45 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, March 11 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1391 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 190 grill replacement [db] 190D coolant smell [db] 190D rear sub-frame R&R RE: [db] 190D coolant smell Re: [db] 190D coolant smell RE: [db] 190D coolant smell Re: [db] 190D coolant smell Re: [db] 190D coolant smell Re: [db] 190D coolant smell [db] funny post from a former Diesel-head... [db] RE: [MB] May I humbly ask: Which is the big Diesel issue here? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:31:35 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] 190 grill replacement aurora auto wrecking up on 99... give 'em a call, prolly less then a c note. :) john DerickAA wrote: > Hello all, > > A few months ago I had a hood cable break in a place I could not get to. I had > to destroy the grill to get into the latch. > Well I got the part right away but did not have the time to put it in till > recent. > I have dicovered a few things I would like to pass along. > > 1. When you replace the hood cable MAKE SURE the replacement has the spring on > the end of the cable the attaches to the latch. That spring helps keep the > latch secure when you hit a bump. > 2. The grill itself acts like a wing, if you look at the angle of the > horizonal molding you will notice the air will push the front end of the hood > down. > 3. After you replace the hood cable some fine tuning me be in order to ensure > maximum contact area with the hood receiver/latching mechanism. > > This was learned the "hard way". Had to pull over a few times. > > As a safety note: If you must run the car with a hole cut in the grill tie the > front of the hood to the bumper with a rope or bungee. I know the safety latch > is there but they fail. > > Unrelated tip: Make sure you open your trunks once in awhile to air out, the > condensation gets pretty bad in there. Mine turned into a swap. Took two days > in the sun to dry it out. > > Later > > Derick > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.619 / Virus Database: 398 - Release Date: 3/10/2004 > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:57:34 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: [db] 190D coolant smell I was changing the oil of the 190D today (with the topsider ), and smelled a hint of coolant. I squeezed on the upper hose, and heard a gurgling that seemed to be coming from the passenger side of the head, somewhere around #3. Coolant level is fine, oil had no coolant, belch tank has no oil in it, car runs like a watch, and I never see a puddle (but somewhat often think I'm smelling coolant, then nervously think about my right foot thinking I have a heater core on the way out). That all considered, and the fact that I've never overheated this car makes me not too concerned. But I thought I'd check anyways. No, there's no headgasket smoke out the back. :) Do the pinhole leaks for oil out the passenger side of the head I hear about on OM601s apply to coolant as well - don't worry about them, just keep the fluids full? Thanks... K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:27:07 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: [db] 190D rear sub-frame R&R Well, I took a day off from work in order to get this taken care of. My weekends keep getting swallowed up by everything else, and there's no way I'd get this done one evening after work, especially since I have class for four hours after work. I purchased the Klann tool from Sam Stag Sales, and set out to do both sides, one side at a time. I opted to do the driver's side first, just in case I hit snags and had to live with only one side fixed for a bit. The driver's side was far worse. On my 190D, the fronts were the worst, but the rears just popped out. I'm not too sure how well the threaded rod and washers that the R-E list webpage describes for doing the removal on a w126 would have worked in the front, but probably would have been fine in the rears. The tool (once I figured out how to use it since the !-at-#$ instructions were in German) made things a LOT easier. The left front mount was TRASHED. The center piece just came out through the top, leaving a hole just big enough that the tool couldn't get a bite on the mount to push it out. I ended up taking the part that came out of the top, turning it around backwards, then using the tool to force it out. The part that came out was shaped like a cone with teeth on the outside, so this actually worked. The left rear popped out piece of cake, and both on the driver's side went in with virtually no effort at all using the tool. I used an application of sil-glyde, don't know how much good it actually did. I didn't feel like going to the dealer for the german stuff (naptholen h or something like that), and heard sil-glyde is similar enough. The right side went a lot faster than the left, mainly because my head had been freshly pulled from my ass and I knew how I was supposed to be doing this in the first place. All four mounts needed replacement as they were pretty cracked, but the left side was far worse than the right. I drove the car up to Napa and back from Redwood City, and the car handled great - actually a little too well. I think the bilstein HDs were slight overkill for the back, as ride quality kinda suffered. The car drove like a chopped rice rocket. Fortunately, the ride is mellowing out a bit. Hopefully for next time I'll remember: - the driveshaft won't move unless you loosen the mounting bracket near the center joint first (which caused me to find a rust hole, so now I know why the driver's side rear carpet gets wet) - don't try popping the front bushings out with the tool holding the bushing in - don't put the bolts in the subframe mounts without all of the hardware attached I started at 11:00 AM and was on the road at 4:30, so it really wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I probably should have done this a looong time ago. My car is so rusty underneath that it isn't funny. I don't think I would have been able to get this done so fast without excessive use of the electric impact wrench. :) If anyone decides to tackle something like this and needs a few pointers, feel free to ask. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:38:39 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] 190D coolant smell I suspect a "lowly" W201 diesel may not have it, but does your car have a submerged heater in the windshield washer fluid tank? That runs engine coolant, and it has been known to develop a leak. At least it did on mine and on someone else's 260E on a different mercedes list. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Kevin Pekarek > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:58 AM > To: undisclosed-recipients: > Subject: [db] 190D coolant smell > > > I was changing the oil of the 190D today (with the topsider ), and > smelled a hint of coolant. I squeezed on the upper hose, and heard a > gurgling that seemed to be coming from the passenger side of the head, > somewhere around #3. > > Coolant level is fine, oil had no coolant, belch tank has no oil in it, > car runs like a watch, and I never see a puddle (but somewhat often think > I'm smelling coolant, then nervously think about my right foot thinking I > have a heater core on the way out). That all considered, and the fact that > I've never overheated this car makes me not too concerned. But I thought > I'd check anyways. No, there's no headgasket smoke out the back. :) > > Do the pinhole leaks for oil out the passenger side of the head I hear > about on OM601s apply to coolant as well - don't worry about them, just > keep the fluids full? > > Thanks... > > K > > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:54:02 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] 190D coolant smell On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 01:38:39AM -0600, Alec Cordova wrote: > I suspect a "lowly" W201 diesel may not have it, but does your car have a > submerged heater in the windshield washer fluid tank? That runs engine > coolant, and it has been known to develop a leak. At least it did on mine > and on someone else's 260E on a different mercedes list. Heated washer fluid? Now that IS cool. I don't know if mine has that or not, will check tomorrow. Perhaps that will remind me to fill up the washer fluid reservoir so I don't have to find some electrical tape to shut that light up :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:30:03 -0800 From: "Derick" Subject: RE: [db] 190D coolant smell No it does not, but the nozzle is heated to keep from freezing and plugging up. Derick On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 01:38:39AM -0600, Alec Cordova wrote: > I suspect a "lowly" W201 diesel may not have it, but does your car have a > submerged heater in the windshield washer fluid tank? That runs engine > coolant, and it has been known to develop a leak. At least it did on mine > and on someone else's 260E on a different mercedes list. Heated washer fluid? Now that IS cool. I don't know if mine has that or not, will check tomorrow. Perhaps that will remind me to fill up the washer fluid reservoir so I don't have to find some electrical tape to shut that light up :) K - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.619 / Virus Database: 398 - Release Date: 3/10/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:51:40 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] 190D coolant smell Heh heh, I dont think I could drive a 190D without knee high boots on :) Robert Chase Kevin Pekarek wrote: >I was changing the oil of the 190D today (with the topsider ), and >smelled a hint of coolant. I squeezed on the upper hose, and heard a >gurgling that seemed to be coming from the passenger side of the head, >somewhere around #3. > >Coolant level is fine, oil had no coolant, belch tank has no oil in it, >car runs like a watch, and I never see a puddle (but somewhat often think >I'm smelling coolant, then nervously think about my right foot thinking I >have a heater core on the way out). That all considered, and the fact that >I've never overheated this car makes me not too concerned. But I thought >I'd check anyways. No, there's no headgasket smoke out the back. :) > >Do the pinhole leaks for oil out the passenger side of the head I hear >about on OM601s apply to coolant as well - don't worry about them, just >keep the fluids full? > >Thanks... > >K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:04:07 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] 190D coolant smell On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 10:51:40AM -0500, Robert Chase wrote: > I dont think I could drive a 190D without knee high boots on :) Well, my ropers come up somewhere between a third of the way and half the way up my shin, and they aren't lacers so I can kick them off fast if I need to :) Hopefully Derick's foot healed without any complications. Ouch. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:17:29 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] 190D coolant smell shadowfax has the heated washer bottle... faked me out with it too because the aux pump (the one that toasted my climate control) was on the driver's side firewall... :) john Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 01:38:39AM -0600, Alec Cordova wrote: > >>I suspect a "lowly" W201 diesel may not have it, but does your car have a >>submerged heater in the windshield washer fluid tank? That runs engine >>coolant, and it has been known to develop a leak. At least it did on mine >>and on someone else's 260E on a different mercedes list. > > > Heated washer fluid? Now that IS cool. I don't know if mine has that or > not, will check tomorrow. Perhaps that will remind me to fill up the washer > fluid reservoir so I don't have to find some electrical tape to shut that > light up :) > > K > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:59:05 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] funny post from a former Diesel-head... saw this on the stu-ritter list... funny... :) As a former diesel-head, here are a few reasons why I love diesels: - -- fuel costs more than premium gas, so you are adding to the local economy - -- diesels won't start if really cold, so you get to stay home from work - -- glow plug relays fail on the coldest day of the year, so you get to stay home from work - -- glow plug relays fail when your daughter is visting your ex-wife one state away, so causes an opportunity to re-establish that contact & get car fixed fast - -- engines keep running when there's a vacuum leak, so less wear & tear on the starter - -- engines last forever, so you can spend all your weekends & money fixing everything around it, on the basis that the engine is still in good shape - -- you have to adjust the valves every 15k miles, so gives you a reason to check out the rest of the engine compartment & fix all the vacuum leaks - -- #2 diesel is the aftershave of choice of real men -- or that's how we explain to our wives why we always smell like it - -- when traveling on the turnpike, you get to re-fuel on the manly side of the station with all the truckers, and stand in puddles of diesel fuel -- the aroma from your shoes lasts for weeks - -- owning & maintaining one means you get automatic admission into that zen-like group of people who walk in circles & say 'klata-klata, klata-klata' - --diesels will continue to run after your alternator has failed which means you can continue to drive at night even after your headlights go out, at least until something hits you, or you hit something - -- when your wife wants new jet-black drapes for the living room, you just soak them in old engine oil from your diesel -- it'll never wash out - -- your neighbors take pity on you, bring you fresh apple pies & biscuits, as they see you working on your car every weekend, and they assume it's because you are broke I'm sure there are more, but the biggest benefit is that you meet some really neat people, as in this day & age, the only people who drive diesels are the ones that really want to, & they are really involved with their cars. I still roll my window down when a 123 diesel pulls up next to me at a stoplight -- I love that klata-klata sound. Still have a piston & connecting rod from the one that went bang when the timing chain let go. Massive components. pdq - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:55:25 -0800 From: john meister Subject: [db] RE: [MB] May I humbly ask: Which is the big Diesel issue here? The Diesels throughout the years have always done well with economy. The 123/126 series are the most prevalent. The 3.0L turbo and non-turbo have a large following. The 201 series 2.2l and 2.5L are also nice. The six cylinder Diesels that came out in the 124/140 series had more issues. Mainly head gaskets if overheated and then the 3.5L really created heartaches with oval cylinders... I've had 8 mercedes... only one gas. (see http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html) the 5 cylinder 3.0L found in the 123/126's are superb. Easy to work on, reliable and adequate. I have a '91 2.5L Turbo Diesel I-5 right now... it's harder to work on, but like the 2.2L I-4 it doesn't require valve adjustments, a good thing. It's a bit more involved to change injectors or glow plugs, but hey, they ain't spark plugs and with about 188,000 miles or more on this thing it's not like it's a yearly project or anything. The fuel economy I got with my non-turbo 300d (81 - aka fritz) was around 24-26 in town and 28-29 mpg on the road... the guy that bought it from me replaced the timing chain, adjusted everything and got 32mpg on the road with it. My 126, an '83 300sd got around 25-26 mpg in town and 28-30mpg on the highway... it seemed to be wound up pretty tight at 70mph... if memory is correct around 3,200 rpm or so. My '85 190d with the 2.2L got around 29-32 mpg in town, never really took it on any long trips but saw close to 34 in runs up I-5. My '91 300d with that 2.5L TD is amazing. It's fast and strolls along around 2,500rpm or so at 70mph. Top end is 124mph... In town I get between 28 and 32 depending on how heavy my shoes are. :) Heading down to Oregon with it I got almost 38 mpg!!! The 124 Chassis is well refined and comfortable. I like the 123 chassis but having a little more modern vehicle is nice... especially with this engine. My complaints about the Mercedes Diesels are not on the engine... but more on the rube goldberg climate controls and central locking system... when they work, they're fine, but when they don't... argghhh... I recently replaced my aux water pump using an aftermarket unit from a reputable supplier and it appears that the pump destroyed my climate control computer... one that had been working perfectly... when I installed the new computer the instructions said to check the monovalve, chk'd ok, then the pump... pump was supposed to max at 1.3A's, it was drawing 3.6A!!! The smoke smell is mostly out of my car, but the failed pump cost me a lot of extra money... I'm also concerned I won't get my core deposit: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ClimateControls/smoke-4.jpg I guess the lesson learned is no matter how reputable the supplier, stick with Benz parts... :( I really didn't need the extra expenses right now... But hey, with the fuel economy I get at least I can afford to drive it... :) So, bottom line, the only Mercedes I want to own is a Diesel. If the ML series were available here with a Diesel I'd be looking for one... john > -----Original Message----- > Someone with the email address Sebastian Peroni [film-at-sinectis.com.ar] > wrote: > Since I'm not very fond of diesels in general I'm a little surprised by > the popularity they have here. Am I losing something?. Why are you all > guys so fond of diesels? Until know I thought they only deserve some > credit from 1990 on. Am I wrong again? Is there some fuel economics > issue also? > > Subject: > RE: [MB] Re: Maybach sighting > From: > "Jason Stern" > Date: > Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:22:37 -0600 > To: > > > -----Original Message----- > Yesterday in their shop they had one they'd just bought back with a > grand total of 800 miles on it. > Pdq > ---- > Peter, > > What I was wondering is what was a brand new hand-built $300k car doing > in the service bay already? > > Jason > _______ > Jason Stern > Denham Springs, Louisiana > 1991 300D 2.5 Turbo 274,000 miles > 1982 300SD Turbodiesel 313,000 miles > http://www.bellegrove.net/Mercedes.html > >>><> > > > Subject: > RE: [MB] May I humbly ask: Which is th big diesel issue here? > From: > Richard Hattaway > Date: > Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:23:33 -0800 (PST) > To: > mercedes-at-mercedeslist.com > > In addition, > > the points never stick > fewer carb fires > no need for ignition wire > insanely simple to work on > do not stall at stoplights > will run on almost anything > no spark plugs to clean > no battery required, except to start > (if you have to, you can pull start it) > no computers > no inspection (in my state) > parts interchange over 10 years > parts interchange over half dozen models > oil filter where it oughta be, on top (mostly) > no dependence on intake manifold vacuum for timing > exhaust systems last forever (it seems) > no catalytic converter needed > less chance of a pinto style roast > less chance of CO poisioning your neighbors/family > who else has an in-line-five? > > > There are lots more, but I have to get back to work... > > Richard> - --- Dave Masinick wrote: >>> Sebastian, >>> >>> There are several reasons to like owning diesels. One is >>> better fuel mileage. The others are: >>> long engine life (properly maintained) >>> cheaper tune-ups >>> lower total cost of ownership >>> klatta-klatta sound from the engine >>> bugs on the rear window >>> odd-ball mystique (at least for me) >>> being able to "smoke" tailgaters >>> >>> Dave Masinick >>> 1982 300D >>> >> >>>> > Behalf Of Sebastian Peroni >>>> > >>>> > Since I'm not very fond of diesels in general I'm a little >>>> > surprised by the >>>> > popularity they have here. Am I losing something?. Why are >>>> > you all guys so >>>> > fond of diesels? Until know I thought they only deserve some >>>> > credit from 1990 >>>> > on. Am I wrong again? Is there some fuel economics issue >> >>> also? - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1391 **********************************