From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Mar 13 19:33:35 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, March 14 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1394 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net [db] Re: administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net [db] '78 240D seized engine Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine RE: [db] '78 240D seized engine Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine [db] List benefits we all realize Re: [db] List benefits we all realize Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:32:25 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net Richard, Along with lots of people my attention span is about 12 seconds long... I do remember your last entreaty and meant to do something then but 13 seconds later, forgot all about it. This time you can count me in twice. Let me know if you can streamline receiving a contribution such as by paypal for example. Well, guys. It is time to pay the piper. Speak up or forever hold your bladder. Richard. Please recommend an appropriate yearly stipend. I suggest $20 per year retroactive to January first. If you do not build a sufficient financial base I suggest this is a sum we can all afford to kiss off. Come on people. Just do it. Richard, I suggest you publish a list of those who have paid. Then we'll know who all the "others" are. Over and out. Vernon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:48:40 -0800 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net At 02:01 PM 3/12/04 , Richard Welty wrote: >This is one of the trickiest things I've ever tried to write. >Hopefully I'll manage to strike the right tone with this. >Apologies in advance if I fail; it's not my intent to >tick anyone off with this. > >I'll start by thanking those who have contributed to the >digest over the years. Those contributions have been a big >help. This message is not directed to you, you all have >done enough. This message is for those who haven't >yet decided to do so. > >Right this minute I'm facing a rather harsh reality. I'm >currently engaged in a job hunt, one which has taken >several months and isn't going terribly well. I've been an >IT professional for some 25+ years, and without question >this is the worst job market for my profession that I have >ever seen. Previously, the longest I've ever been out of >work (while looking for work) was 2 weeks. > >This leads me to my real topic. Back in August/September >I worked out that if a meaningful percentage (say, 50%) >of the readership readership wanted to make even a very >small contribution (say, $5 or $10) to the lists, these >mailing lists would then constitute at least a 1/2 time job >(and under those circumstances, I'd probably work on it >that way.) > >The percentage of members who contributed was about >5%. At the time, with my job hunt starting, I didn't make >anything of it, as the 1/2 time job observation was at >some level a curiosity more than anything else. > >But now my family and I are entering into a rather severe >belt tightening; things are getting very stressful around >here. While I do deeply appreciate the contributions of >those who have done so, I'm seeing another message here, >which is that 95% of the readership doesn't think these lists >are worth even $5 a year. > >This makes the digest.net look like a luxury, and now is >not a time where I can indulge luxuries. > >I have no plans to do anything drastic right away. I just >felt that the readers should get some fair warning that >I'm in a situation that has to change, one way or another. >And if anyone knows any IT jobs in Albany NY or Pittsfield >MA (IT Director, Project Manager, CIO, CTO, that sort of >thing), I'd love to hear about them. > >richard >-- >Richard Welty rwelty-at-averillpark.net >Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592 > Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security Since I'm always ready to put in my $.02, I thought it was time to put in a couplea bucks. I hope enough of the others will kick in to keep this great resource afloat. Regardless, if you can't make a go of it I thank you and all those who have helped me keep my benzes going. Greg Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:47:28 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:32:25 -0600 Vernon Tuck wrote: > This time you can count me in twice. Let me know if you can streamline > receiving a contribution such as by paypal for example. i should have posted this url at the end, but forgot to include it: http://www.digest.net/digest-contributions.html > Richard. Please recommend an appropriate yearly stipend. I suggest $20 per > year retroactive to January first. If you do not build a sufficient > financial base I suggest this is a sum we can all afford to kiss off. as a practical matter, $20 is easy for some, but for a few, even $5 can be tough right now. i really don't want to press to hard on the amount. > Richard, I suggest you publish a list of those who have paid. Then we'll > know who all the "others" are. i'd really rather not. in fact, the digest-contributions page specifically promises that contributions will be kept confidential. richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-averillpark.net Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592 Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:01:33 -0800 From: Jack Tavares Subject: Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net Jack Tavares wrote: > i should have posted this url at the end, but forgot to include it: > > http://www.digest.net/digest-contributions.html > oops, meant to send this to the list. actually the url is http://www.digest.net/digest-contribution.html (no "s") - -- jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:08:27 -0600 From: flash Subject: [db] Re: administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net > So, bottom line, if you do have to shut it down we all thank you > for your efforts and truly appreciate the great service you've provided. > > But paying the mortgage and feeding the family takes higher priority... > > and if you hear of a UNIX Sys Admin gig up in Seattle let me know.. :) > > john meister john - please make sure richard knows to keep us informed about his status as he has just accomplished. While in a real sense, this is a luxury for us (that is, we really can do without most email...) it is becoming a real matter of food for richard perhaps. We can let him suck at the government teet, or we can pitch in a logical way - he who uses/enjoys should pay - kinda like a toll road. We need to "belly up to the bar" for this richard, methinks. Dan ChicagoArea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:24:48 -0700 From: junot Subject: [db] '78 240D seized engine greetings list ... i have only today joined this mailing list ... i am hoping someone can help with a car i just purchased ... it is a '78 240D with a turbocharger ... i purchased this vehicle as a parts car, but upon close inspection found some writing on the left inside fender ... it says: 'engine rebuilt 1-91 145782' ... the odometer shows 204,000 ... if this is the case ...then i am assuming that this engine only has 60k or so miles on it .... the engine is siezed .... i tried turning it over with the bolt on the front pulley, and also with the starter.... the starter will engage, but the engine will not turn over .... i would like to ask if there is some point at which i should begin looking for the reason that this ... i am not very familiar with diesels but i have pulled wrenches on many gasoline engines ... any assistance will be greatly appreciated .... thank you, junot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:21:37 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine Take a sample of oil and coolant. Take these to a diesel place for analysis. Actually, you can determine a lot by just draining the oil and coolant and looking at 'em. Alternatively, relieve compression by removing injectors or glow plugs. If the engine won't turn over manually, put some lightweight oil down the open holes, lightly screw the injectors (or glow plugs) back in to keep water and trash out. Forget about it for a week. Try it again. If after that it won't budge something is mighty weird... Before any of the above however, you need to make sure you don't just have a dead starter. VT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:32:38 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine a turbo? I'd drop the oil pan to see what condition the crank is in... john junot wrote: > greetings list ... > > i have only today joined this mailing list ... i am hoping someone can > help with a car i just purchased ... it is a '78 240D with a > turbocharger ... i purchased this vehicle as a parts car, but upon close > inspection found some writing on the left inside fender ... it says: > 'engine rebuilt 1-91 145782' ... the odometer shows 204,000 ... if > this is the case ...then i am assuming that this engine only has 60k or > so miles on it .... the engine is siezed .... i tried turning it over > with the bolt on the front pulley, and also with the starter.... the > starter will engage, but the engine will not turn over .... i would like > to ask if there is some point at which i should begin looking for the > reason that this ... i am not very familiar with diesels but i have > pulled wrenches on many gasoline engines ... any assistance will be > greatly appreciated .... > > thank you, > junot > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:26:38 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] administrivia: comments on the future of digest.net Well, everything comes down to marketing. I respectfully suggest that you harangue us on a regular basis. Sort of like National Public Radio. Make 'em pay to shut you up! Seriously, I don't remember ever crossing emails with you directly. But your list has saved me hundreds in mechanic fees. Send Richard some money guys... good things will surely happen. Vernon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:39:08 -0700 From: junot Subject: Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine john meister wrote: > a turbo? > > I'd drop the oil pan to see what condition the crank is in... > > john > > greetings john .. i will try that .. yes it has a turbocharger ... the insignia on the turbo manifold says 'DSD' ... i don't know if this is an aftermarket installation or what ... thanks for the advice ... junot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:01:58 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine I presume you know that 240Ds did not come with a turbo. I'll wager fifty cents to a pint of burnt motor oil that somebody installed a turbo and fried the engine. VT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:20:03 -0700 From: junot Subject: Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine hmmm .... boost pressure too high ? .... what would be the effects upon an engine if this is what occurred ? thanks, junot Vernon Tuck wrote: >I presume you know that 240Ds did not come with a turbo. I'll wager fifty >cents to a pint of burnt motor oil that somebody installed a turbo and fried >the engine. > >VT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:55:25 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] '78 240D seized engine Basically, you could get an explosion in a cylinder that generated more energy than the system was capable of handling. A number of parts could have broken in the rush to dissipate that much energy quickly. Also, a trubocharged motor runs at higher temperatures than a non turbo one. On the 5 cylinder 300D OM617 motor, for example, there are a lot of additional little extras that distinguish the turbo version from the non turbo, including such things as spraying oil up at the underside of the pistons. My money's with Vernon and John that there's something broke in that motor that would make repair unrealistically expensive. I agree that the first thing to do is to remove the oil pan and see how many extra parts fall out. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of junot > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:20 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine > > > hmmm .... > > boost pressure too high ? .... > what would be the effects upon an engine if this is what occurred ? > > thanks, > > junot > > Vernon Tuck wrote: > > >I presume you know that 240Ds did not come with a turbo. I'll > wager fifty > >cents to a pint of burnt motor oil that somebody installed a > turbo and fried > >the engine. > > > >VT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:11:50 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] '78 240D seized engine actually the crank probably snapped... the compression pressures are much higher. I've looked into putting a turbo on a normally aspirated 3.0L I-5 and found that the crank and rods are different on the turbo unit indicating that there is much more stress. My guess is the crank busted, probably around #2, just a wild hunch, or one of the rods snapped and jammed btwn the block and the crank. I've seen a couple of 2.8L's V6's do that... and a couple of V8's that snapped a rod... that the engine can't be turned over indicates to me that it is seized, and since a turbo wouldn't necessarily cause it to overheat and seize the rings, then the crank issue is more likely... but dropping that old oil pan will tell the story... or if you can wiggle the flex plate or flywheel and see if there is any slop... but if it's jammed hard it won't move either... I've heard of putting a turbo on a 2.4L before, a friend of mine in Sweden sent me pictures of a volvo turbo on a 2.4L stuffed into a full size jeep, pix on my server. :) john junot wrote: > hmmm .... > > boost pressure too high ? .... > what would be the effects upon an engine if this is what occurred ? > > thanks, > > junot > > Vernon Tuck wrote: > >> I presume you know that 240Ds did not come with a turbo. I'll wager >> fifty >> cents to a pint of burnt motor oil that somebody installed a turbo and >> fried >> the engine. >> >> VT > > - -- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- * john-at-wagoneers.com * Snohomish, WA USA - http://wagoneers.com where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ** trust Jesus ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- win, mac & linux: http://www.mozilla.org/ the new alternatives - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:34:25 -0800 From: "DerickAA" Subject: [db] List benefits we all realize Hello, Just my thoughts on a worthwhile service we enjoy here. This forum has dealt with everything from Antennas to Ziebart rust proofing. >From Audi to VW if it has a bad clatta someone here can tell ya what's the matta. And occasionally we talk about the "evil" gas burners..... It has been suggested that we could move to other forums and some of us have subscribed to other forums in addition to this one. (Easley, mbz.....) This is the only forum that seems to be a diesel "catch all" and it would be a shame to lose it. I belong to a VW diesel forum specific to the pickups and while they are also a great bunch of enthusiasts; a thread on ford powerstroke diesels or Cummins would not get the participation that these topics get here. I have learned a tremendous amount from you all and that has saved me countless hours of "hard knocks" and dents on my credit card. To put a money value on it, frankly, I could not afford what it would be worth. Ask some of your better mechanics how much they pay for technical data and subscriptions to keep them up to date. We have the added bonus of our different backgrounds on solving problems plus sometimes it is down right funny. When is the last time you chuckled looking at a tech manual.....zzzzzz So I encourage you, if you have the means, donate anything you can to keep the list solvent. And to everyone who has saved my knuckles more than once, salute! nuff said. Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 3/13/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:42:07 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] List benefits we all realize Derick! Thank you! My sentiments exactly... I made a modest contribution yet larger than I myself had said I would. And I feel great! I haven't had to sell either of my two sons for scientific research... although we may give up 4 pizzas this year... VT ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1394 **********************************