From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Mar 16 17:47:49 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, March 16 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1396 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo [db] Hood latch adjustment [db] Fuel hoses Re: [db] Fuel hoses Re: [db] Fuel hoses Re: [db] Fuel hoses Re: [db] Fuel hoses Re: [db] Fuel hoses RE: [db] Hood latch adjustment Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo [db] 240D starter Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:45:50 -0700 From: junot Subject: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo greetings list ... dropped the pan this morning .... contents: one bearing cap, two cap nuts, one bearing shell .... the piston rod is wedged between the crankshaft and the block .. i don't see anything broken ... yet thanks for all your help, junot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:53:32 -0800 From: Jack Tavares Subject: [db] Hood latch adjustment So, after hearing some of the horror stories about have the hood latch go out of adjustment and having to cut the grill to repair it, I decided to look at the adjustment on my 83 300D. Uh, what do you adjust exactly? I can't see anything obvious. Are we shimming the strike plate? or is there something hidden somewhere that I didn't see? Thanks - -- jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:55:32 -0800 From: Jack Tavares Subject: [db] Fuel hoses So, when I had the hood open this weekend looking at the hood mechanism I noticed one of the fuel hoses looking a bit bulbous and soft. It is the top hose feeding into(?out of?) the fuel pump. Can I buy regular old fuel line for this? I can think of 2 problems: 1. does it need to be "high pressure" hose used for fuel injection systems ? 2. is it diesel specific? IE: is there something in diesel that would deteriorate regular fuel hose? Thanks - -- jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:22:41 -0500 From: Paul Brown Subject: Re: [db] Fuel hoses That is the "cigar hose" that is part of the fuel return circuit. It is supposed to be big and soft; it dampens the pulses from the injection pump, I believe. Jack Tavares wrote: > So, when I had the hood open this weekend looking > at the hood mechanism I noticed one of the > fuel hoses looking a bit bulbous and soft. > > It is the top hose feeding into(?out of?) the > fuel pump. > > Can I buy regular old fuel line for this? > > I can think of 2 problems: > > 1. does it need to be "high pressure" hose > used for fuel injection systems ? > > 2. is it diesel specific? IE: is there something > in diesel that would deteriorate regular fuel hose? > > Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:21:19 -0800 From: Jack Tavares Subject: Re: [db] Fuel hoses Paul Brown wrote: > That is the "cigar hose" that is part of the fuel return circuit. It is > supposed to be big and soft; it dampens the pulses from the injection > pump, I believe. > > Jack Tavares wrote: > >> So, when I had the hood open this weekend looking >> at the hood mechanism I noticed one of the >> fuel hoses looking a bit bulbous and soft. >> >> It is the top hose feeding into(?out of?) the >> fuel pump. >> >> Can I buy regular old fuel line for this? >> >> I can think of 2 problems: >> >> 1. does it need to be "high pressure" hose >> used for fuel injection systems ? >> >> 2. is it diesel specific? IE: is there something >> in diesel that would deteriorate regular fuel hose? >> >> Thanks >> > Really? Hmm. I will have to take another look to make sure it isn't cracked. It felt pretty squishy. Makes me nervous. - -- jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:43:35 -0000 From: Netpath User mzylka Subject: Re: [db] Fuel hoses I second what Paul said. It is supposed to be soft. But, like you said, if you see cracks I would replace it. As for fuel line, I prefer to buy the "standard" fuel line that is covered in a cloth like material. I have found that the cloth covered fuel line is some tough stuff. Marc Zylka '83 300D Turbo, 318k+ miles Jack Tavares said: > Paul Brown wrote: > > That is the "cigar hose" that is part of the fuel return circuit. It is > > supposed to be big and soft; it dampens the pulses from the injection > > pump, I believe. > > > > Jack Tavares wrote: > > > >> So, when I had the hood open this weekend looking > >> at the hood mechanism I noticed one of the > >> fuel hoses looking a bit bulbous and soft. > >> > >> It is the top hose feeding into(?out of?) the > >> fuel pump. > >> > >> Can I buy regular old fuel line for this? > >> > >> I can think of 2 problems: > >> > >> 1. does it need to be "high pressure" hose > >> used for fuel injection systems ? > >> > >> 2. is it diesel specific? IE: is there something > >> in diesel that would deteriorate regular fuel hose? > >> > >> Thanks > >> > > > > Really? Hmm. I will have to take another look to make > sure it isn't cracked. It felt pretty squishy. Makes > me nervous. > > -- > jack > > - -- Netpath User mzylka ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:53:56 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] Fuel hoses If the hose you're talking about is the one I think it is, it is bulbous by design. Therefore, if I were me (TM) I would only replace it with an OEM hose. As was already pointed out elsewhere, the German diesel rated cloth covered fuel hose is worth the additional money, and then some. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Vernon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:05:25 -0800 From: Jack Tavares Subject: Re: [db] Fuel hoses Vernon Tuck wrote: > If the hose you're talking about is the one I think it is, it is bulbous by > design. > > Therefore, if I were me (TM) I would only replace it with an OEM hose. > > As was already pointed out elsewhere, the German diesel rated cloth covered > fuel hose is worth the additional money, and then some. > > That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. > > Vernon > Thanks all. A quick glance at it made me nervous. When other fuel hoses look like that, I get worried. I was worried about imminent failure and was wondering if I could make an emergency repair with any old fuel line. I will re-inspect and replace with OEM if necessary. Thanks again - -- jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:09:32 -0800 From: "Derick" Subject: RE: [db] Hood latch adjustment Hello Jack, I did two adjustments one on the latch and one on the striker plate on the hood. All I did was loosen the fasteners and moved the latch over about 1/32" towards the driver side. I also moved the striker plate in the opposite direction by approximately the same amount. The only reason why I did it was I felt some give when I lifted up on the hood. After the tweak it was solid. I think driving around with a big hole in the grill was not a smart thing to do on my part. It created a large air scoop that forced the hood upward. Even after lashing the grill to the bumper I noticed the hood moving about. Got to the point where I just parked it until I could replace the grill. After the grill was replaced I also had to adjust the height of the hood bumpers. Everything is back to normal now, and toots is back on the road. Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.619 / Virus Database: 398 - Release Date: 3/10/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:00:28 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo you may have gotten lucky... now, remove the head, examine the camshaft over that cylinder and check the valves to see if they're bent. Then have the head checked for cracks, magnaflux at a machine shop might be needed. You'll need to drop the crank and have it turned... it'll be nicked, if you replace that rod bearing it'll spin and do the same thing again. You may want to have that crank examined for cracks as well... they don't bend well... Not sure if you can drop the crank in the car or not... Once you get the crank out then remove the ridge from the cylinder walls and extract the pistons... It's possible that you can simply have your crank turned down, use the next size rod bearings, replace that one piston, reinstall all the pieces and live happily ever after... oh yeah... check the block for cracks as well... something had to give when that thing wedged... you may be lucky... you may not... hard to say... but this is what is usually referred to as catastrophic failure... for reasons you may soon discover. :) john > greetings list ... > > dropped the pan this morning .... contents: one bearing cap, two cap > nuts, one bearing shell .... the piston rod is wedged between the > crankshaft and the block .. > i don't see anything broken ... yet > > thanks for all your help, > > junot ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:24:03 -0700 From: junot Subject: Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo greetings john .... yes ..my feelings exactly ... a lot will depend upon how fast and at what point this cap let go ... in any case, it is time for this motor to come out ... that it was rebuilt some 50k ago does give me some hope ... i am toying with the idea of putting a 4 speed behind it, instead of the auto trans that is there now .. if i decide to do this, i will try to locate a crank with the proper flywheel and harmonic balancer, and have it ground and balanced as a unit ... but this is all wishful thinking at this point ... now it's time to open it up and see what damage has been done thanks, junot dieseljohn-at-comcast.net wrote: >you may have gotten lucky... > >now, remove the head, examine the camshaft over that >cylinder and check the valves to see if they're >bent. Then have the head checked for cracks, magnaflux >at a machine shop might be needed. > >You'll need to drop the crank and have it turned... it'll >be nicked, if you replace that rod bearing it'll spin >and do the same thing again. > >You may want to have that crank examined for cracks as >well... they don't bend well... > >Not sure if you can drop the crank in the car or not... > >Once you get the crank out then remove the ridge from >the cylinder walls and extract the pistons... > >It's possible that you can simply have your crank turned >down, use the next size rod bearings, replace that >one piston, reinstall all the pieces and live happily >ever after... > >oh yeah... check the block for cracks as well... something >had to give when that thing wedged... > >you may be lucky... you may not... hard to say... but this >is what is usually referred to as catastrophic failure... for >reasons you may soon discover. :) > >john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:09:11 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo I'd find out who the rebuilder was and see if there was any warranty left... and/or never use them again. :) john > greetings john .... > > yes ..my feelings exactly ... a lot will depend upon how fast and at > what point this cap let go ... in any case, it is time for this motor to > come out ... that it was rebuilt some 50k ago does give me some hope ... > i am toying with the idea of putting a 4 speed behind it, instead of the > auto trans that is there now .. if i decide to do this, i will try to > locate a crank with the proper flywheel and harmonic balancer, and have > it ground and balanced as a unit ... but this is all wishful thinking at > this point ... > now it's time to open it up and see what damage has been done > thanks, > > junot > > dieseljohn-at-comcast.net wrote: > > >you may have gotten lucky... > > > >now, remove the head, examine the camshaft over that > >cylinder and check the valves to see if they're > >bent. Then have the head checked for cracks, magnaflux > >at a machine shop might be needed. > > > >You'll need to drop the crank and have it turned... it'll > >be nicked, if you replace that rod bearing it'll spin > >and do the same thing again. > > > >You may want to have that crank examined for cracks as > >well... they don't bend well... > > > >Not sure if you can drop the crank in the car or not... > > > >Once you get the crank out then remove the ridge from > >the cylinder walls and extract the pistons... > > > >It's possible that you can simply have your crank turned > >down, use the next size rod bearings, replace that > >one piston, reinstall all the pieces and live happily > >ever after... > > > >oh yeah... check the block for cracks as well... something > >had to give when that thing wedged... > > > >you may be lucky... you may not... hard to say... but this > >is what is usually referred to as catastrophic failure... for > >reasons you may soon discover. :) > > > >john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:13:30 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo I cannot believe that an accredited rebuilder would touch turbocharging a 240D engine, which would certainly void any warranty. VT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:48:27 -0700 From: junot Subject: Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo greetings vernon and john the chances of me finding out who did this are almost nil ... there is no paperwork with this car ... machinists will pretty much do what u ask them to .. they do not have much interest in warranties other than their own ... no matter .. i have a good machinist who has done much work for me in the past ... u could have lunch on his shop floor ... i trust him implicitly ... as for the turbocharging ... i may just elect to keep it and keep the boost pressures low ... i do not know whether strengthened pistons and rods are available for this motor, but i will ask the advice of said machinist and go with his recommendations .... thanks again, junot Vernon Tuck wrote: >I cannot believe that an accredited rebuilder would touch turbocharging a >240D engine, which would certainly void any warranty. > >VT > > john wrote: I'd find out who the rebuilder was and see if there was any warranty left... and/or never use them again. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:46:42 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] re: seized engine 240D turbo Hi junot, It's your car and your call. But you could easily spend $3000 rebuilding that engine. It would be a shame to toast it a second time. Old Mercedes Benzes are not hard to find, and while not cheap, are generally not to expensive. All turbocharged diesel engines have oil spray nozzles which cool the undersides of the pistons with a fine mist of oil. Some naturally aspirated engines also have this. Therefore, they are NATURALLY turbo ready. The Ford/International 6.9 diesel (early to late 80s) is an example of this. However, your engine is not in that category. In addition to strengthened rods, pistons, and slightly different compression ratios AND gear ratios, here are some other differences such as the valve and valve guide materials selected for turbocharged engines. If you simply must have more power, you'll be miles and miles ahead to part out this car (including turbo) and use the money to buy a 300TD. Screwing around with German design and engineering will bite you in the ass 101% of the time. Turbocharging the 240D engine is simply not a wise engineering choice if I may so brash as to offer up this unsolicited opinion. Regards, Vernon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:43:30 -0700 From: "Jeremy Bowne" Subject: [db] 240D starter The starter in my 1980 240D appears to be toast. Pulled it, had it tested, and it does fine on the bench (at auto-zone, I don't trust them) The guy testing it said quote "I don't want to sell you a part that isn't bad". This is what it does - when I bang on it with a hammer (being frustrated), it works, but when it works the starter gear doesn't release from the flywheel right away, and makes a grinding noise(but will start the car). This works with maybe two or three starts, then it just quits altogether and wont even attempt to turn. Until I bang on it again. Any ideas before I get this sucker rebuilt? (It was rebuilt by Bosch in 1991, according to the metal plaque on the side of it) Jeremy 1980 240D 1980 450SEL ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1396 **********************************