From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Apr 12 12:53:16 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, April 12 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1411 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] thoughts on Diesel conversions Re: [db] thoughts on Diesel conversions Re: [db] Re: [DIESEL] the 87 300TD in Phoenis ...is back on eBAy Re: [db] 6 Cyl 1995 D Re: [db] Re: [DIESEL] the 87 300TD in Phoenis ...is back on eBAy Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:53:15 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] thoughts on Diesel conversions While I'd love to, the donor vehicles I'm looking at are in the $500 range and I can just barely afford that. :) Too many projects to spread my money across. J.B. At 09:57 AM 4/12/2004 -0700, you wrote: >actually shipping the entire car could be done >for less then a grand... > >the car runs and drives... check with some shippers... > >john > >On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, J.B. Hebert wrote: > > >-->If you were on the east coast, I'd probably buy it so I could drop the > >-->motor in my '76 Bronco. :) > >--> > >-->But I think shipping costs would be prohibitive. > >--> > >-->J.B. > >--> > >-->At 09:19 PM 4/11/2004 -0700, you wrote: > >-->>Haven't heard a thing from anyone on the idea of swapping in a newer > >-->>turbo onto an older 3.0L engine... > >-->> > >-->>I'm thinking that I'll continue on with the proposed 4.0L engine > >-->>swap and am giving thoughts about either fixing the '83 300D and > >-->>selling or using the engine in my '87 Cherokee... I don't > >-->>have the time to mess with either though... > >-->> > >-->>If you're interested in the '83 300d let me know... I'm committed > >-->>to buying it from derick, but if you want it I'll work with you on > >-->>it so he's not bothered... :) > >-->> > >-->>Right now I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to keep this laptop... > >-->>windows decided it didn't like either the cdrom (usb) or the internal > >-->>dvd... so I booted into SUSE and it's ok with both, but doesn't find > >-->>the wireless nic... sheesh... some days I really hate computers... > >-->>trying to finish income taxes and having pc troubles really stinks... > >-->> > >-->>later, > >-->>john > >-->> ---- > >-->> > >-->>--------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > >-->>--------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > >--> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:56:45 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] thoughts on Diesel conversions understand... there's local interest anyway... and you're likely to find a rusted hulk on your side of the country with no engine/turbo problems to deal with. ;) speaking of the other side of the country, looks like I'll be in the big apple the week of the 26th teaching a Linux class... john On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, J.B. Hebert wrote: >-->While I'd love to, the donor vehicles I'm looking at are in the $500 range >-->and I can just barely afford that. :) >--> >-->Too many projects to spread my money across. >--> >-->J.B. >--> >-->At 09:57 AM 4/12/2004 -0700, you wrote: >-->>actually shipping the entire car could be done >-->>for less then a grand... >-->> >-->>the car runs and drives... check with some shippers... >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->>On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, J.B. Hebert wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->If you were on the east coast, I'd probably buy it so I could drop the >-->> >-->motor in my '76 Bronco. :) >-->> >--> >-->> >-->But I think shipping costs would be prohibitive. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->J.B. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->At 09:19 PM 4/11/2004 -0700, you wrote: >-->> >-->>Haven't heard a thing from anyone on the idea of swapping in a newer >-->> >-->>turbo onto an older 3.0L engine... >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>I'm thinking that I'll continue on with the proposed 4.0L engine >-->> >-->>swap and am giving thoughts about either fixing the '83 300D and >-->> >-->>selling or using the engine in my '87 Cherokee... I don't >-->> >-->>have the time to mess with either though... >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>If you're interested in the '83 300d let me know... I'm committed >-->> >-->>to buying it from derick, but if you want it I'll work with you on >-->> >-->>it so he's not bothered... :) >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>Right now I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to keep this laptop... >-->> >-->>windows decided it didn't like either the cdrom (usb) or the internal >-->> >-->>dvd... so I booted into SUSE and it's ok with both, but doesn't find >-->> >-->>the wireless nic... sheesh... some days I really hate computers... >-->> >-->>trying to finish income taxes and having pc troubles really stinks... >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>later, >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> >-->>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ---- >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:30:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Mangrum Subject: Re: [db] Re: [DIESEL] the 87 300TD in Phoenis ...is back on eBAy I would NEVER buy a car without having a PPI. If someone missrepresents the condition of a car, or hides the fact that there is something wrong with the car, then they are no better than a thief. And a liar. I've purchased cars knowing there were things wrong with them because I wanted a car and am willing to fix it. But I want to know what I am getting into. There have been times that I have been suprised by previous owners hiding mechanical or rust problems and when I discover them I would like to pop the PO in the nose if I ran accross them. Are there were laws against these thiefs/liars? Because I would be the one that would land in jail if I carried out my actions. Robert Chase wrote: Alec, I am nice. I just don't like my time wasted. Used cars are a risk and if some buyers are uncomfortable with the risk they should consider buying new cars. I have my car regularly serviced and my mechanic advises me of any issues I might have. A pre purchase inspection is a very detailed inspection that involves a lot of items. If you took 100 random 10+ year old Mercedes on the market and did a PPI on them maybee 10 would pass with no problems found. So let me ask you what do you suggest the seller of a car needing repairs do? Should they throw the car away? Should they just give it away to the buyer because of a few repair items? Quite honestly there are a lot of service jobs that can cost more than the fair market value of a car. A suspension overhaul on an older diesel 126 sedan can easily do this. The difference between a Mercedes enthusiast and a used car destroyer is just that. Someone who looks at a car as a financial venture is not an enthusiast (no matter what they may say to the contrary) and is merely assisting the used car market in deteriorating the existing cars on the market as they jump from car to car trying to play it cheap trying to avoid that transmission or engine overhaul. While they may like the make their obsession with their pocket book only serves to eliminate perfectly good cars from existance because they were too cheap to do the repairs. Then again thats probably why all new cars are disposable tin cans these days. Most cars easily excede their original purchace price in service and repairs throughout their lifetime. If you have ever looked at Ferrari's their service schedule can excede the value of the car in less than a year depending on the milage the driver puts on the car. Cars like that only survive because their owners are willing to spend the money to keep them on the road. Imagine if you could see that 10 year old gullwing being crushed because of cheap owner who did not want to repair the transmission. Robert Chase Alec Cordova wrote: >Shame on you, Robert. I thought you were nicer than that. > > > >>I have played the "let my mechanic look at it" game before. To be >>honest with you its really just a game buyers commonly employ to lower >>the value of the car. >> >> > >Maybe this has been your experience, but I have paid for the eyes of a >competent mechanic because they know more than I do. As we have discussed on >this list many times, there are some repairs on older Benzes that nearly >exceed the value of the car, and the need for those repairs may not be clear >to someone who is not an expert. > >We almost bought a lovely W111 coupe many years ago, I think it was a 1970 >280SE. When we requested a PPI, the seller would not allow us to drive the >car to the mechanic (one of the three top MB mechanics in the area, and >known to be reputable), and the PPI revealed why. The transmission was >barely there, and the seller, who had to have known this considering how bad >the tranny was, had not chosen to disclose this. He was trying to present >the car as being something substantially other than what it turned out to >be. We paid and thanked our PPI mechanic and left that deal to someone else. > >On another occasion, we repeatedly suggested that our potential buyer get a >PPI on the 85 Porsche 944 we were selling, although we were not aware of any >problems with this daily driver. He never got around to it, but within two >weeks he had to put about a thousand dollars into the clutch system. >Granted, we saw him driving the car quite a bit more maliciously than we had >ever driven it, but a PPI may have uncovered this unknown condition before >the sale, and we would have negotiated further because of it. We thought we >were selling a car that would not need a thousand bucks within weeks, >subject to the standard risks associated with any car, new or used. Had a >trained eye examined the car before the sale, we would have known that our >assumption was wrong, and that would have materially changed what we were >selling, necessarily affecting our asking price. > >On yet another occasion, while the PPI disclosed some basically normal >maintenance items coming up, like some suspension rubber, it actually >convinced us even more that the car in question was worth the asking price, >because the engine, transmission, and climate control showed no signs to an >impartial third-party expert of their imminent demise. > >So PPIs from a hack or from too close a friend of the buyer may be just >gimmicks, please don't condemn PPIs from known, impartial, competent, >reputable mechanics. I consider them similar to inspections required on a >house to get a loan for purchase. A good professional one can simply provide >a more complete picture of what one intends to buy, allowing a more accurate >determination of the value of the potential purchase to the potential >purchaser. > >Alec Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:13:41 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] 6 Cyl 1995 D 140k doesn't seem like a lot of miles... if this is the 3.0L then you're probably ok. A compression test is an excellent plan. On the 3.5L TD's #1 or #2 would go oblong... unless this engine (assuming a 3.0L) has been overheated it should be fine. Sounds like a reasonable price. Is rust an issue back there? I wouldn't think the tranny would be a problem, but worth getting it checked too. john '91 300D 2.5L TD 185,000 miles '87 cherokee 4.0L 249,650 miles > I'm looking to buy my first Diesel, a 1995 E300D with 140k. I'm uncomfortable > buying a car with such high miles. Does anyone have this car and have they > had good luck with it? Are there any specific issues with this 6 cyl? > > It's a 1995, E300D, 1 owner, 140k, good overall condition. $9900. By > northeast standards this seems like a good price- opinions? I'll post pics > when I get them. > > Should I order a compression or tranny test? > > Thanks all, I look forward to contributing to the board when I finally land a > diesel. > > John Peterson > Rhode Island ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:30:47 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Re: [DIESEL] the 87 300TD in Phoenis ...is back on eBAy Hmm, Perhaps I should look into "importing" some of the dirt cheap diesels we have here into the northern climates where there is more demand. Then again the thought of sending cars to their corrosion infested deaths does not really appeal to me no matter how profitiable. I agree with you on the engine issue John. Jan to be honest with you you probably should reevaluate what your looking for car wise. You need to either go with a car right at 100k or look for something newer or something that has had the engine rebuilt on. I think your looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack. I am looking for an SL right now and have not found one because I am a cheapskate and Im looking for a euro model (not really a good combination). I understand this and I am willing to wait for the right car to come around and accept the flaws of a car I might find in my price range. Honestly I would prefer something that needed a little work on it and work on the car in my spare time. My 300SD runs great but I would not want a compression tester on it as the car has a broken odometer and I have extrapolated the mileage to be in excess of 300k. I have accepted the fact that at any moment I could have a catostrophic failure and will have to repair it. This however is a make lemonaid out of lemons situation. I really like my car as its the exact color combo I wanted and is equipped exactly as i wanted. Doing an engine or a transmission on my car while expensive equals having an issue I won't have to deal with for another 23 years. Robert Chase dieseljohn-at-comcast.net wrote: >I find the highest book value I can and work down from there... rarely >do I go backwards on a deal. I don't buy something unless it's a bargain >or it's something I really want and it's right. I paid pretty close >to top dollar for my '91 300d because they're rarer than hen's teeth in these parts. I've had to make a number of repairs, but nothing major or serious >or even unexpected. The car was well cared for. The seller wasn't willing >to lower the price (much) either. :) > >I'm careful about what I buy and careful how I sell things. I'm fair >with folks. I tell them right out what it would cost if I fixed it, >and that they're going to pay more to have someone else do it. > >When I'm looking at a vehicle I don't really need, but kind of want >I list out what it'll take to get the thing right, make an offer and walk >away. Many times the seller will accept my offer... even when I bid low >because I really don't want it... I looked at one Jeep pickup the >guy was asking $1,350 for... I checked it out, found lots wrong and >bid $250 never expecting the guy to take it... but he did... :) Then >I had two problems... getting it home and explaining to my wife... ;) > >I think the fact that I go to extremes to point out the flaws makes it >easier for everyone. I point out things that most mechanics wouldn't >find. I still get what I'm asking and like I said, rarely go backwards. > >When I buy a used car I go through it and point out problems and what >it'll cost me to fix it. If the car is priced fairly to start out with >I won't negotiate it down, will just decide if it's something I have to have. :) > >I do understand your concern about taking a car to a mechanic... I've >had shops break things on my vehicles as well. Usually a buyer doesn't >bother with wanting to see a mechanic after they've crawled under and around >a car with me. If they do, that's fine. If they find something serious >in an old vehicle they can walk away if they want. I've done the math and >will keep it before going backwards. :) > >When dealing with an older used car, like the 300TD that Jan got involved >with, I don't expect the engine to be "tight". If it runs and the price >is right I'm happy. I'd look at the book value in this case, the condition >of the car and what it would cost to replace the engine if it went tango >uniform. (tummy up... you know, like the goldfish floating upside down >in a bowl). The value for me is in a clean, straight car since I don't >do bodywork or paint... Engine swaps and repairs aren't as big of a deal, >usually... of late it is, sold my shop crane and just don't have time... :( > >I remember selling a Jeep Cherokee that had a noticeable, very noticeable and loud engine knock... We started at full retail and deducted $1,500 for a replacement engine. The guy was quite happy. Never heard from him again, and if he went to a dealer to fix that thing he spent at least twice that much to fix it. I figured a junk yard engine and a mechanic to R&R it. He felt that was fair. For all we knew that engine could have run for years that way... I may never know... :) > >The point is when dealing with used cars it's expected they'll need something. >The higher the price one pays the less repairs it should need. The seller should be as honest and open as possible. The only time I don't list faults >is if I'm trading in a vehicle, which is very, very rare... I know the dealership will not pass along any info I share and they have a mechanic that will check it out... that and they're going to low ball me so bad anyway I >don't care. I won't trade a car in unless it practically has to be towed in. > >I looked at a new car a while back for grins and what the dealership offered me >on a trade in on my benz was a major insult. I can't believe people actually >allow themselves to be ripped off that way... The key to getting a good buy >is to find out who is trading in a car and offer them a bit more then what >the dealership is. ;) > >john > > >>John, >> >>Your short changing yourself then. Book price on used cars is for a car >>in average condition. ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1411 **********************************