From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Apr 16 13:56:51 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, April 16 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1417 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 84 300D [db] W124 Rear Suspension, was 95 E300D RE: [db] 84 300D Re: [db] 84 300D Re: [db] W124 Rear Suspension, was 95 E300D [db] Re: Just saw a MB for sale Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:19:03 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] 84 300D Jerome, The 126's are a bit more refined and sophisitcated. The suspension is a bit more advanced and the car has a great road feel on the open highway. Inside the car is larger and more comfortable with a number of different options that you just cant get on the 123. My 300SD is faster than my brothers 300D not sure why as they have the same engine. It may be the SD's transmission as the 126 weighs more than the 123. While luxury is great it does have its price 126's are a bit more sensitive to being neglected than 123's. You should try a 126 sometime. I love mine and think its one of the finest cars produced in the 20th century. Robert Chase Jerome Kaidor wrote: >Robert Chase wrote: > > >>Agreed, >> >>I have had the pleasure of driving my brother's 123 chassis 300D while >>my 126 chassis 300SD is busy with a Dr's appointment. The 123 reminds >>me of an old Russian woman. Built solid to survive the harsh Siberian >>winters and with the patience to wait in line for hours for potatoes to >>feed her family. At first I did not really care for the 123 cars >>because of thier tight engine compartments (compared to my 126 with the >>same engine) and because of their lack of space and simple suspension. >>If you drive one of these cars for a while though it grows on you. Its >>no frills no nonsense design gives the car a solid road feel and lots of >>dependability. >> >> >> >*** The suspension is actually pretty advanced. It has independant rear >suspension, and the front suspension arms are beautiful aluminum castings, >which shows great attention to unsprung weight. In the rear, there are >inboard drum brakes just for parking. > > To me, it's a car that "feels" large, heavy, and wide. The engine >compartment is not excessively crowded compared to modern cars. > > I never drove a 126, would like to see how those compare. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:35:36 -0400 From: clwhitney-at-dmv.com Subject: [db] W124 Rear Suspension, was 95 E300D In my opinion, one link out of the 4 on each side is quite easy to change. The others? Not easy. Some suggest dropping the entire rear subframe to change the links, and I think that might prove to be the best strategy. If you did that, then you'd probably want to change the diff mounts. To me, even tho' my garage is fairly well equipped and I'm fairly handy, doing the other links was more than I wanted to tackle. If you wouldn't hesitate to change a clutch, I'd say you could probably do the links. Me? I would hesitate to change a clutch... Shops with lots of experience might do the rear links easily with experience and skill - if you have a trusted shop I'd discuss it with them. Rgds, Chris Whitney - ------------------------------------------------------ This message was sent using Delmarva Online's Webmail. http://www.dmv.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:18:54 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] 84 300D I kept my 85 300D longer than I've kept any other car, and I've gone through too many cars. It absolutely does grow on you. Although I replaced my 123 with a 124, mostly in an attempt to get a sportier driving car, I miss a lot about the older one. It was definitely one of those rare "I may not be able to do everything you ask of me, but I'll sure try as hard as I possibly can to please you" cars. It's also a joy of mechanical engineering, not this modern froo froo computerized stuff that anybody can make. 84 is generally a very good year for the W123. The 85s used a higher stall speed in the automatic transmission, so it improved the engine+tranny relationship just slightly, but as a few have mentioned, there is a lot of variance in the power of the turbodiesel. On that older design engine there are a few things that can be tweaked to maximize the benefit of the turbo charger (mostly the ALDA adjustment). I think 84 and 85 both can suffer from a disappearing clearcoat. That may even apply as far back as 83. Only for the 85 model year, and only for California deliveries, the 300D used a trap oxidizer to control particulate emissions. Those tended to trap too much heat when they filled up and cause some damage, but they were not used on 84 or on Federal 85 cars. If you can live without the dynamic driving of something like a BMW 3 series (although a W123 can certainly hold its own), it's hard to find a more pleasurable long term car than what you're looking at (with the possible exception of a W126 300SD of similar vintage), especially if you know enough about and car enough about cars to notice how one car can be better than another in so many ways, both little and big. Happy hunting, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 168K > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Robert Chase > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 10:44 AM > To: Jerome Kaidor > Cc: Roger Conlon; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] 84 300D > > > Agreed, > > I have had the pleasure of driving my brother's 123 chassis 300D while > my 126 chassis 300SD is busy with a Dr's appointment. The 123 reminds > me of an old Russian woman. Built solid to survive the harsh Siberian > winters and with the patience to wait in line for hours for potatoes to > feed her family. At first I did not really care for the 123 cars > because of thier tight engine compartments (compared to my 126 with the > same engine) and because of their lack of space and simple suspension. > If you drive one of these cars for a while though it grows on you. Its > no frills no nonsense design gives the car a solid road feel and lots of > dependability. > > Robert Chase > > > Jerome Kaidor wrote: > > >Roger Conlon wrote: > > > > > >>I'm going to be looking at a 1984 300D soon and was wondering > what chassis > >>this would be ( 124 or 123 ). > >> > >> > >*** 123. A good year. Turbocharged. Should get about 25MPG, have > >relatively good power for a diesel. I seem to remember seeing between 80 > >and 90 degrees C on mine. Oil pressure should pin the needle > when you rev > >it up. A solid, heavy, car. > > > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:28:00 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] 84 300D Alec, Very well put. One of the amazing things about the 126 is the road feel and the big size without feeling "boat like". I drove a friends Thunderbird the other day and felt like I was taxiing a 747 around at a general aviation airport. It felt HUGE. My 126 is bigger but has a much smaller feel. The 123 is a small car that manages to feel much bigger than it is. Thats one of the things that has always amazed me about Mercedes cars. The first Mercedes I ever drove was a 190e and it felt like it was built like a tank even though it was so small. Robert Chase Alec Cordova wrote: >I kept my 85 300D longer than I've kept any other car, and I've gone through >too many cars. It absolutely does grow on you. > >Although I replaced my 123 with a 124, mostly in an attempt to get a >sportier driving car, I miss a lot about the older one. It was definitely >one of those rare "I may not be able to do everything you ask of me, but >I'll sure try as hard as I possibly can to please you" cars. It's also a joy >of mechanical engineering, not this modern froo froo computerized stuff that >anybody can make. > >84 is generally a very good year for the W123. The 85s used a higher stall >speed in the automatic transmission, so it improved the engine+tranny >relationship just slightly, but as a few have mentioned, there is a lot of >variance in the power of the turbodiesel. On that older design engine there >are a few things that can be tweaked to maximize the benefit of the turbo >charger (mostly the ALDA adjustment). > >I think 84 and 85 both can suffer from a disappearing clearcoat. That may >even apply as far back as 83. > >Only for the 85 model year, and only for California deliveries, the 300D >used a trap oxidizer to control particulate emissions. Those tended to trap >too much heat when they filled up and cause some damage, but they were not >used on 84 or on Federal 85 cars. > >If you can live without the dynamic driving of something like a BMW 3 series >(although a W123 can certainly hold its own), it's hard to find a more >pleasurable long term car than what you're looking at (with the possible >exception of a W126 300SD of similar vintage), especially if you know enough >about and car enough about cars to notice how one car can be better than >another in so many ways, both little and big. > >Happy hunting, >Alec Cordova >Taylor, Texas >89 300CE, 168K > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Robert Chase >>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 10:44 AM >>To: Jerome Kaidor >>Cc: Roger Conlon; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>Subject: Re: [db] 84 300D >> >> >>Agreed, >> >>I have had the pleasure of driving my brother's 123 chassis 300D while >>my 126 chassis 300SD is busy with a Dr's appointment. The 123 reminds >>me of an old Russian woman. Built solid to survive the harsh Siberian >>winters and with the patience to wait in line for hours for potatoes to >>feed her family. At first I did not really care for the 123 cars >>because of thier tight engine compartments (compared to my 126 with the >>same engine) and because of their lack of space and simple suspension. >>If you drive one of these cars for a while though it grows on you. Its >>no frills no nonsense design gives the car a solid road feel and lots of >>dependability. >> >>Robert Chase >> >> >>Jerome Kaidor wrote: >> >> >> >>>Roger Conlon wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I'm going to be looking at a 1984 300D soon and was wondering >>>> >>>> >>what chassis >> >> >>>>this would be ( 124 or 123 ). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>*** 123. A good year. Turbocharged. Should get about 25MPG, have >>>relatively good power for a diesel. I seem to remember seeing between 80 >>>and 90 degrees C on mine. Oil pressure should pin the needle >>> >>> >>when you rev >> >> >>>it up. A solid, heavy, car. >>> >>> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:13:26 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] W124 Rear Suspension, was 95 E300D On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 12:35:36PM -0400, clwhitney-at-dmv.com wrote: > Shops with lots of experience might do the rear links easily with experience > and skill - if you have a trusted shop I'd discuss it with them. The only upside to this is that his car is a car that is worth a chunk of money. I think last I heard having rear suspension work on a w201/w124 was in the four digit range. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:49:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: Just saw a MB for sale most of the 190's say either 190E or 190D. the gassers have 2, 2.3, 2.5... don't see any 2.2's in the Nitske book... could be an oiler dude. nice little rides, but 124's are much nicer... on the topic of 123 vs 126, I think the 123 handled much better then 126, the 126 tended to "float" on the backroads, but had a nicer, more "remote" feeling ride. The 201's are nimble... the 124 is just right... looks like I'll be in the bay area for three weeks teaching a Linux course... kevin, I'll be in touch. ;) it's down in Salinas... :) john On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Hey John, >--> >--> I just a 190 for sale! I could only see the 2.2 badge on the >-->right side of the trunk. Was there a 2.2 gasser or would this >-->definately be a diesel?? I'm going to stop tonight and check it >-->out further... >--> >-->Jim/ >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1417 **********************************