From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Apr 20 10:21:41 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, April 20 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1424 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] what is this? [db] Re: what is this? Re: [db] RE: diesels and l-series HP's Re: [db] what is this? Re: [db] RE: diesels and l-series HP's Re: [db] Re: Just saw a MB for sale Re: [db] Re: Just saw a MB for sale [db] DIY injector cleaning? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:57:23 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] what is this? Actually Alec has posted this page many times. I keep losing the URL ;) BUT, I remember asking about the w189 some time ago. I thought it to be a diesel also. But it uses the small "d" not the capitol "D". That doesn't mean diesel as explained to me. Some other designation. So still no diesel :( Otherwise I'd look for one too ;) Jim/ > Oooh, > > Nice page Alec..... You have been holding out on us > > Now to find a w189.... One HELL of an attractive car and a Diesel to boot. > > Robert. > > > > Alec Cordova wrote: > > >>1981 240D 2.4L Auto > >> > >>What body is this? I feel left out of your discussions......... > >> > >> > >> > > > >It's a W123, and it's one of the most reliable and maintainable cars ever > >built. > >You might find Greg Franks's page helpful, at least up until the last couple > >of model cycles. I still reference it often. > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html > > > >Alec Cordova > >Taylor, Texas > >89 W124c 300CE, 168K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:01:01 -0500 From: Flash Subject: [db] Re: what is this? > Oooh, > > Nice page Alec..... You have been holding out on us > > Now to find a w189.... One HELL of an attractive car and a Diesel to boot. > > Robert. There are no diesel W189 only 3 liter gas I6 DanG ChicagoArea W189.981 in baskets and boxes - dunno if it will ever get done by me... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:52:15 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] RE: diesels and l-series HP's Hmmmmm, Of course now Im wondering why I did not think of removing the injector lines. :) Robert Chase john wrote: >simply remove the hard injector lines... place rags >or caps over the exposed fittings... takes just a few >moments and saves lots of trouble/time. :) > >john > >On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Robert Chase wrote: > > > >>-->Heh heh, >>--> >>-->Atlanta at least has the fortune of warm weather. My 300SD with bad >>-->glow plugs starts pretty easily as long as the temp is above 70. >>-->Anybody got any suggestions on the eaisest way to change the plugs >>-->without banging the knuckles and wrenches on your injection lines? I >>-->already have my French made Bosch Glow plugs. I Figured I would try to >>-->get through the summer with the plugs but they have gotten a little >>-->worse and my Neighbors dont appreciate the "starting process" at 3am in >>-->the morning. >>--> >>-->Robert Chase >>--> >>--> >>-->john wrote: >>--> >>-->>On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Robert Chase wrote: >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->>>-->Heh heh, >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->No problem... Alvin Ill drop you an e-mail with my contact information >>-->>>-->and we can perhaps get this car running better for you. >>-->>> >>-->>> >>-->> >>-->>better? >>-->> >>-->>I think Alvin will be quite happy to have it RUN. ;) rofl... >>-->> >>-->>thanx Robert! >>-->> >>-->>john >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->Robert Chase >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->john wrote: >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, DEVAUGHN,ALVIN (HP-USA,ex1) wrote: >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>>-->Thanks John... You know, I think you're right on the sitting, but the car >>-->>>-->>>-->started right up after sitting several times.. Then, after I drove it for >>-->>>-->>>-->about 15 miles the car wouldn't start at all...?? >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>bad fuel... very common... you may need to have the tank cleaned, >>-->>>-->>hopefully not... look for black crud in the filters... fungus/algae... >>-->>>-->>you'll need industrial strength anti-fungal Diesel fuel treatment >>-->>>-->>and many filter changes... been there done that. >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>>-->I know that diesel fuel may be dirtier than regular fuel..causing blockage >>-->>>-->>>-->if not moving thru the fuel system on a constance.. >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>actually it's usually fine, but since Diesel is so much more environmentally >>-->>>-->>friendly it promotes life forms... that's what's GROWING in the >>-->>>-->>tank... :) doesn't happen with that nasty gasoline stuff... :) >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>>-->I bought an 4 dollar filter for the car but can't figure out where it goes.. >>-->>>-->>>-->Maybe it's the one by the pump??? I'll try and get on the list and contact >>-->>>-->>>-->Robert Chase.. >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>I'll cc the list and give him a heads up that someone from >>-->>>-->>atlanta will be pestering him... he may enjoy the distraction. >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>Hey, Robert... Alvin and I were working on an HP server on >>-->>>-->>the phone and some how or another we got on the topic of Diesels... >>-->>>-->>go figure... anyway, he's got one that was sitting and could use >>-->>>-->>advice and maybe someone to point out where all the objects of >>-->>>-->>restriction might be located. Hope you don't mind. :) >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>>-->I do know something is blocking fuel.. Because this car use to start right >>-->>>-->>>-->up??? >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>you got it... very common... >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>same thing happens with gas engines too... old jeeps/rust/water, etc... >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>it's harder to deal with with Diesels because you can't just pour >>-->>>-->>fresh gas down the carb and get it going... :) >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>ttyl, >>-->>>-->>john meister >>-->>>-->>sunny(well, there IS sun above the clouds, I think) snohomish, washington >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->Thanks.. >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->Alvin >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->-----Original Message----- >>-->>>-->>>-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >>-->>>-->>>-->Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:55 PM >>-->>>-->>>-->To: DEVAUGHN,ALVIN (HP-USA,ex1) >>-->>>-->>>-->Subject: RE: diesels and l-series HP's >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, DEVAUGHN,ALVIN (HP-USA,ex1) wrote: >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->Hey John, no, I didn't find the glow plugs but I did find the fuel >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->filter.. I changed it.. But the car still won't start.. Although >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->now, it appears to at least be attempting to start?? I still thinks >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->it's not getting gas?? Are there two fuel filters on that benz?? >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->(1985 300D)...... >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->there are two and a filter sock in the tank. >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->there is a smaller primary filter down by that pump, >>-->>>-->>>-->and then the larger cannister filter by the pump. >>-->>>-->>>-->the filter sock is probably ok. >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->get on the diesel-benz list and give robert chase a shout. >>-->>>-->>>-->he's in atlanta and fairly knowledgeable. he's got >>-->>>-->>>-->an '83 300sd. >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->the problem is if that thing has been sitting for a long time it'll be >>-->>>-->>>-->gummed up in the rings and you won't get compression... >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->when was the oil last changed? >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->ttyl, >>-->>>-->>>-->john meister >>-->>>-->>>-->ph. 360.668.5205 >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->Am I missing something here.. I feel I'm almost there.. :-) >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->-----Original Message----- >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:50 PM >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->To: DEVAUGHN,ALVIN (HP-USA,ex1) >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->Subject: RE: diesels and l-series HP's >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->Alvin, >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->Did you find your glow plugs? Did you get on the diesel-benz list >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->ok? >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->We're still having troubles with that L-class server... I'll have to >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->deal with it later next week... They'll call me in to do the setup >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->on it when they get the hardware bugs out of it... >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->john >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->On Thu, 15 Apr 2004, DEVAUGHN,ALVIN (HP-USA,ex1) wrote: >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->Reply >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->-----Original Message----- >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:54 PM >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->To: alvin_devaughn-at-hp.com >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->Cc: john meister >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->Subject: diesels and l-series HP's >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->see my '91 on the server too. :) >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->john >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> ---- >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->---------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->-------- >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->- >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->mold. >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>-->----- >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> ---- >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>-->>>-->>>-->- >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->>>-->>>-->>-->----- >>-->>>-->>>-->>--> >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>--> ---- >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>>-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->>>-->>>--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >>-->>>-->>>--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >>-->>>-->>>-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->>>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->>> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> ---- >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->>>-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >>-->>>-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >>-->>>-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>-->> >>-->>>--> >>-->>>--> >>-->>> >>-->>> >>-->> >>-->> ---- >>-->> >>-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >>-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >>-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>--> >>--> >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:54:25 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] what is this? Hmmm, Sort of reminds me of the 126 in a rather twisted sort of way...... I love the design.... Gas or diesel is fine with me...... Of course diesel is prefered...... Robert Chase Jim Hoffman wrote: >Actually Alec has posted this page many times. I keep losing the URL >;) BUT, I remember asking about the w189 some time ago. I thought >it to be a diesel also. But it uses the small "d" not the capitol "D". >That doesn't mean diesel as explained to me. Some other designation. >So still no diesel :( Otherwise I'd look for one too ;) > >Jim/ > > > >>Oooh, >> >>Nice page Alec..... You have been holding out on us >> >>Now to find a w189.... One HELL of an attractive car and a Diesel to boot. >> >>Robert. >> >> >> >>Alec Cordova wrote: >> >> >> >>>>1981 240D 2.4L Auto >>>> >>>>What body is this? I feel left out of your discussions......... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>It's a W123, and it's one of the most reliable and maintainable cars ever >>>built. >>>You might find Greg Franks's page helpful, at least up until the last >>> >>> >couple > > >>>of model cycles. I still reference it often. >>>http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html >>> >>>Alec Cordova >>>Taylor, Texas >>>89 W124c 300CE, 168K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:05:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: diesels and l-series HP's On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Robert Chase wrote: >-->Yeah, >-->Thats a pretty accurate description. yeah, I'm learning... over and over and over again... shortcuts aren't always the quickest path... ;) john >--> >-->Robert Chase >-->>>-->Hmmmmm, >-->>>-->Of course now Im wondering why I did not think of removing the injector >-->>>-->lines. :) >-->>> >-->>probably because you've never had a Diesel in a shop >-->>where the mechanic took every flippin' thing apart to >-->>get to one little bitty bolt... took him less time >-->>to do that then wiggle your way in to work on something... >-->>as I get older, and perhaps a little wiser, I'm learning >-->>that often it's easier to remove obstructions then to >-->>work around them. :) one must remember to put them >-->>back the way one finds them though... therein lies the >-->>trouble... ;) >-->> >-->>I watch some of my friends rip half a car apart to >-->>get to one little bolt instead of contorting themselves >-->>to become one with the machine. :) >-->> >-->>Us lazy advanced DIY types don't like dissassembling any >-->>more then absolutely necessary... ;) >-->> >-->>john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:13:40 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Re: Just saw a MB for sale At 04:43 PM 4/16/04 , Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 07:02:33PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > I think they are about the same handling wise. The 123 is smaller but > > the 126 is only about 100# heavier. The 123's suspension is simplistic > > in comparision to the 126 suspension. While the 126 does have some > > float factor It sticks to the road very well and is quite composed in > > fast curves and turns. I think there is a big psychological factor > > involved here. The 126 does look "huge" and obviously a bigger car > > would handle worse than a smaller car. The weight is almost the same > > and the 126 has a better suspension. It would be interesting to see > > skidpad and handling results for both of these cars and see which one > > really did handle better. :) > >Wow. only 100 lbs heavier? I guess they really DID build those 123s like >tanks :) > >As far as a bigger car handling worse, that is not necessarily the case. >Often times, a slightly longer wheelbase can lend a lot to handling, >especially if there is not a weight penalty. > >K > >-- >Kevin Pekarek >Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >85 190D (601, 5spd) Here's the weights from the http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html page. 300D- 3515 300TD- 3740 300SD- 3625 300SDL- 3835 Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:26:58 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Re: Just saw a MB for sale At 04:37 PM 4/16/04 , Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 04:26:33PM -0700, john meister wrote: > > I wonder if "normal" people ever activate their ABS... :) > >I only have one car with ABS, the patrol car (odd, since at the time >they were still teaching cops cadence braking, which doesn't work with >ABS). I've gotten the ABS to come on several times, and all of them were >rather inopportune. For as big as that car is, it really holds its own >rather well. Fortunately, the 190D does not have ABS. > >Then again, I am far from normal. :) > >K > >-- >Kevin Pekarek >Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) As far as comparing the 123 v. 126, I agree that the 123 has a more solid feel. However the 126 brings a little refinement in terms of a smooth ride without taking away from road feel. In my opinion my SDL is the best combination of comfort and handling that I have experienced. A comparison of the Crown Vic Police Interceptor (CVPI) to the SDL is an apt one, since the two vehicles are roughly the same size and both have "big car feel". I drive each on a nearly daily basis. THe SDL blows away the CVPI in terms of both handling and comfort. Usable space is better in the SDL, and it has none of the "wallowing" feel that comes from the CVPI suspension. I have never experienced the ABS in the SDL, perhaps because my driving is not quite that aggressive. The ABS in the CVPI kicks in now and again on wet roads. Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:28:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: [db] DIY injector cleaning? Hi folks, Since getting laid off - and the Big Checks from my ex-employer ceasing - - I find I have somewhat more time than money. The 300D has been intermittantly idling rough for quite a while now. I suspect that new injectors would make a difference. Would it be worthwhile to take'em out, take'em apart, soak'em in carb cleaner, and put them back together? Of course, it's not as good as new ones or a proper rebuild, but would it be worth my time to bother? - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1424 **********************************