From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Apr 22 21:02:20 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, April 23 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1429 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? RE: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? RE: [db] Fuel Additive RE: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? Re: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:54:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) dude! you rock! this is the kind of techno babble I love... :) You're right about the ponies... my buddy road in my '88 xj and when we pulled out onto the street he immediately stated how much power it had... the specs on the 4.0L in the jeep is at least 5hp more... the weight of the rover is close to 5,000lbs!!! the xj, around 3,800. I also started checking the specs on the WJ vs the Rover... they are very closely matched in features... reliability, as per alldata, 99 notices on the rover, 145 on the WJ. If my buddy comes down a lot more in price I might bite... I was initially thinking of selling shadowfax to make it happen, but with fuel prices the way they are that wouldn't be a bright thing to do. :) I noticed that when comparing details on the '99WJ and '98 Range Rover, that the prices on the WJ might be lower and within reach even to someone without a real day job.;) not sure if this link will work, but it compares the two. http://www.carsdirect.com/research/compareresults?cat=0&acodes=USA80LRS021A0,USA90JES052B0 MSRP * $56,300 (in 1998) / $34,190 (in 1999) Invoice * $49,825 (in 1998) / $30,817 (in 1999) Used Car Trade In $13,297 - $16,492 / $8,280 - $11,587 Used Car Private Seller $14,775 - $18,325 / $9,200 - $12,875 Used Car Dealer Retail $17,575 - $21,500 / $11,375 - $15,425 Engine 4.0L V-8 190HP / Standard: 4.0L I-6 195HP Available: 4.7L V-8 235HP Transmission 4-spd auto / w/OD 4-spd auto w/OD Fuel Economy City 13.0 mpg 16.0 mpg Fuel Economy Highway 17.0 mpg 21.0 mpg The mileage, weight and good old American Jeep brand is keeping me on track, thanx to your outstanding analysis... If my buddy really drops the price I might go for it and drive it a few years... my buddy has more toys then most boys... single doctor... with excellent tastes... now, if I can just end up with his plane at a bargain when he gets tired of it. :) The ONLY reason I'd consider THIS Range Rover is he's had it since new, has it loaded with extras and has taken superb care of it... he's spent more on accessories for this thing then I did for my very reliable/economical '87 XJ. :) Actually, he's spent at least 4 times what my XJ cost me... Ya gotta love those XJs... Oh well, this was and is a nice little side adventure... dreaming, learning, sharing wheeled info... bottom line appears that Jeeps rule... and an XJ with a Mercedes Diesel would be a sweet setup... too bad my buddy didn't buy the Diesel version of the Rover... ;) I'll be looking forward to hearing input from others... you guys are a great bunch, thanx! BTW, I'm flying into NYC Sunday... flying home Friday, anyone in the big apple? I'll be staying at the Mayfair New York Hotel 242 WEST 49TH STREET - I should be able to get on line there... they have telephones there, right? ;) the hotel doesn't have high speed internet though, it's a real issue going to these uncivilized locations... (in the middle of missouri I had high speed connections... ;) standing by for more info... john On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 03:49:48PM -0700, john wrote: >-->> A good friend of mine offered his '98 Range Rover 4.0L V8 >-->> with 68,000 miles on it to me today. He bought it new and >-->> has taken incredible care of it. I've driven it before and >-->> we all drove up to BC with it... quiet, smooth, wonderful... >-->> controls are a bit odd though... took me a long time to figure >-->> out how to open windows and such... (guess I'll need to RTM, eh?) >--> >-->That is my favorite series of Range Rover, and one of these days, I >-->hope to have space in the stable for such a steed. But, I have other >-->daily drivers, other trucks, other 4x4s, so if it pisses me off, it >-->sits until we are on speaking terms. >--> >-->> It's tempting... Need to replace the '99 WJ we sold last >-->> year, but I know little about the Land/Range Rovers. Well, I >-->> know that the V8 is a derivative of the Buick Aluminum V8 >-->> from the early '60's... They seem to have a following... >-->> I just never went down that path... mainly been SJ,XJ,WJ >-->> and Diesel Benz kind of guy... ;) >--> >-->It is far removed from the old starfire 215 v8. The 98, even >-->though it also displaces 3.9 liters like the older rover engines, >-->is distributorless and heavily computerized. Rovers off road are >-->famous for getting dust in the idle control so that they idle at >-->somewhere around 1600 rpm or so until you've shot it with WD-40. >-->It is still all aluminum, and any of the sensors going out can >-->have you hunting for a new head/block/engine/etc when you blow >-->a head gasket. >--> >-->> This will be my wife's vehicle. It has to be reliable. >-->> Economy isn't as critical (it's rated 14/17, but I think >-->> switching it over to amsoil synthetics throughout should >-->> get it to at least 20mpg on the freeway if I keep my >-->> foot out of the injectors. :) My WJ went from 18 to 21... >--> >-->Dream on. That 4.0L v8 is extremely underpowered for that heavy of >-->a vehicle. Range rovers are tankers - they easily weigh as much as >-->my 77 6.6L cherokee. Your 300D will blow the doors off it out of >-->the hole, and it will struggle to keep up with your two bazillion >-->original mile 87 XJ. But, it has class that is undeniable. The 14/17 >-->rating for mileage was extremely optimistic. >--> >-->> Would really appreciate input, comments, sarcasism, humor, >-->> votes of confidence, warnings to run for cover, horror stories, >-->> and so on... I know that an older WJ Grand Cherokee will have >-->> repair issues too... this Range Rover is perfect. I'm >-->> tempted to not replace a Jeep with a Jeep here folks... (My >-->> J10 might be done this year... ;) So keep me on the straight >-->> and narrow if venturing off is gonna be one of those expensive >-->> nightmares... >--> >-->Okay, here you go. >--> - The power steering box WILL ALWAYS LEAK. They did from the factory. >--> If it doesn't leak now, then either it will tomorrow because someone >--> spent a fortune on it yesterday, or the fluid just isn't hitting the >--> ground yet. >--> - Servicing the transmission needs to be done at the dealer, because >--> you need the special dealer tool to SPREAD THE FRAME APART so the >--> x-member can come out of the way of the pan. >--> - Surprisingly, under the hood is mostly bosch instead of lucas. This >--> means replacement will still be expensive, but won't be near as >--> frequent. >--> - The suspension is air bags, no longer coils. While they are smoother >--> on road, and amazing off road, when they leak, you are in for >--> serious expense. And if the computer controlling the ride height >--> segfaults, you're riding home on the bump stops. And if for some reason >--> the ride height sensor at one of the four corners freaks out or fails, >--> the computer puts its head firmly up its rear and may require expensive >--> (think a couple thousand dollar) replacement. >--> - regardless of the receiver hitch or the use of one as a tow vehicle in >--> "The Horse Whisperer", your XJ probably does better as a tow vehicle in >--> the power department. >--> >-->The transmission (a ZF) is pretty solid, and the transfercase has a >-->viscous coupling, which is a lot nicer than the noisy gear drive >-->one in the discovery. I *THINK* putting it into 4L gives you the >-->option of what would behave like a manual valve body, don't remember when >-->that came into being. Axles are 3.54s, with a dropout third member like >-->a toyota. Transfercase has a 1.21:1 (or so) HIGH range. Low range is >-->somewhere in the threes. Nothing is better than a range rover (for a >-->factory stock vehicle) for crusing down rutted or washboard roads. You >-->will have to learn how to four wheel while hauling ass, drinking tea, and >-->eating crumpets because you can actually get away with it in a range >-->rover :) >--> >-->IMO (which really isn't humble), you may be better off finding >-->a WJ. It might be more expensive up front, but >--> - you already like WJs A LOT >--> - your wife already likes WJs >--> - they're not overly maintenance happy like a british vehicle >--> can be >--> - they have better acceleration and mileage >--> - parts and labor are much cheaper on a jeep than a rover. >--> >-->But, if like me you don't care if the car has downtime because you >-->can just drive something else when it is either not reliable enough >-->or too expensive to deal with right now, go for it. They're awesome >-->cars. >--> >-->> My friend has never had a single problem with this thing >-->> and it's got almost 70k on it... I think Rube Goldberg >-->> was on the design team though... I have read articles that >-->> mention that the controls are in Klingon. :) >--> >-->There's some wonkiness, but it isn't too bad. Just incredibly >-->expensive. >--> >-->> What's funny is this thing is a British vehicle, but he's >-->> never had trouble with the electrics when it rains... which >-->> is often... so when did that myth evaporate? :) >--> >-->The car is probably just used to it :) >--> >-->I highly recommend visiting www.rangerovers.net and reading the >-->checklist of what to look for. That will be a second generation, >-->aka "4.0/4.6". That page will also give you an idea of what you >-->are in for. >--> >-->K >--> >-->-- >-->Kevin Pekarek >-->Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >-->Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >-->85 190D (601, 5spd) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:57:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) the guy I bought my '81 300D (Fritz) from has a newer Jag... sweet machine... but my wife told me she wants another WJ... so unless my buddy gives me the deal of a lifetime there'll be another jeep in the drive soon as I teach enough classes... ;) thanx for the input john On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Robert Chase wrote: >-->Good luck!, >--> >-->I still think the 617 powered Country would be a fun car. Another car >-->to consider for your wife that is CHEAP is a 1995 Jaguar XJ6. Its pre >-->OBDII and looks just like the newer more expensive ones. 1995 is after >-->the time that Ford came in and kicked Jag's suppliers in the can for bad >-->quality. For about $4500 your wife can have a car that looks like a >-->$50k car. Parts are not cheap for the XJ6's but they are somewhat >-->reliable. And with your technical abilities I doubt it will see the Jag >-->dealer too often if ever again. I have driven one of these cars and >-->wish I fit in it correctly. They are smooth and powerful and handle >-->like they are on rails. The problem I have is I am so tall I have to >-->let the seat all the way back and the center pillar rubs my elbow. >--> >-->Robert Chase >--> >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>Decided to check on recalls... >-->>only 99 service bulletins... about 20 of those are just >-->>manual updates and misc. non-problem gunk. >-->> http://www.alldata.com/TSB/68/98680708.html >-->> >-->>As a reality check I looked at the '99 WJ (first >-->>year and I had one.. high miles even) >-->> it had 145 bulletins, 2 safety, 1 emission... >-->> http://www.alldata.com/TSB/04/990418EQ.html >-->>looks like most of those are real problems too... >-->> >-->>thanx for the input... this will take some thought... :) >-->>(since we have no money this won't take a lot of thought... ;) >-->> >-->>The Rovers have an american designed V8, a ZF tranny... not >-->>sure on the xfr case, for some reason I have a hunch it's a >-->>borg warner - full time... I have another friend selling >-->>an older Rover, also in excellent condition... >-->> >-->>never really considered these things before... both friends >-->>haven't had any of the problems you described... been searching >-->>on the web, have found a few folks with a very sour experience >-->>with these things... but overall it seems pretty positive... >-->> >-->>research continues... :) >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->> >-->>On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Robert Chase wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>>-->John, >-->>>--> >-->>>-->I would suggest avoiding a 1998. Range Rovers are on the same level as >-->>>-->Volvos and simply love their service appointments at the dealership. >-->>>-->Additionally this vehicle is OBD-II equipped and out of general prinipal >-->>>-->I avoid anything made after 1996 becase of this. I have a couple >-->>>-->friends with late model Range Rovers. They love their cars but admit >-->>>-->they are far from being reliable. Check some parts prices but be sure >-->>>-->to be sitting down before you do it. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->If you want a Range Rover try one of the earlier models such as a early >-->>>-->1990's Country or other older model. An interesting thought. The Range >-->>>-->Rover's strong point is the coil spring suspension and chassis. One of >-->>>-->its weak points is its electricals and drivetrain. I wonder how nice a >-->>>-->OM-617 powered Range Rover would be. That my friend would be a vehicle >-->>>-->worthy of a Mercedes Engine. You can get an older Country for as little >-->>>-->as $2500. A wee bit cheaper than what your friend is probably asking >-->>>-->for his 1998. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Robert Chase >-->>>--> >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:24:00 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? Hey, Looking at an Audi 4000 for a friend? Anybody know these cars well? Looks like its in great shape... Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:41:04 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: RE: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? I had an Audi 5000 diesel with a 4 speed. Kept it for about 3 weeks and got rid of it. Too much "work" to drive. Hard to explain (one of those situations where you have to drive it for a while to know what I am talking about). I was too busy behind the wheel. The car just had a "lazy" spirit.... Oddly enough everything was in stellar mechanical shape so I am at a loss. Anyhow the 4000 may be totally different.... The only bad thing I have heard about one is my coworker almost got killed when the tranny got away from him and pinned him to the garage floor. I will not go near another Audi (and yet I love Volkswagens), but that is me. Good luck. Derick <<<<<<< Hey, Looking at an Audi 4000 for a friend? Anybody know these cars well? Looks like its in great shape... Robert Chase >>>>>>>>> - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:24:39 -0000 From: Netpath User mzylka Subject: RE: [db] Fuel Additive John, what are the symptoms of leaking seals? Marc '83 300D Turbo, 320k+ miles john said: > the injectors and the fuel compression part of the pump is > what I'm referring to... the pump itself may use the engine > oil, but the part that takes the fuel and compresses it is > the critical part... those pressure valves and such are > the issue... I just replaced all the seals in mine... they > started leaking.. > > john - -- Netpath User mzylka ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:49:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? I know what you mean about the Audi's... I looked at an Audi 100 in Germany... would rather drive a VW. :) john On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, derick wrote: >-->I had an Audi 5000 diesel with a 4 speed. >--> >-->Kept it for about 3 weeks and got rid of it. >--> >-->Too much "work" to drive. Hard to explain (one of those situations where you >-->have to drive it for a while to know what I am talking about). I was too >-->busy behind the wheel. The car just had a "lazy" spirit.... Oddly enough >-->everything was in stellar mechanical shape so I am at a loss. >--> >-->Anyhow the 4000 may be totally different.... >-->The only bad thing I have heard about one is my coworker almost got killed >-->when the tranny got away from him and pinned him to the garage floor. >--> >-->I will not go near another Audi (and yet I love Volkswagens), but that is >-->me. >--> >-->Good luck. >--> >-->Derick >--> >--><<<<<<< >--> >-->Hey, >--> >-->Looking at an Audi 4000 for a friend? Anybody know these cars well? >-->Looks like its in great shape... >--> >-->Robert Chase >--> >-->>>>>>>>>> >--> >-->--- >-->Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >-->Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >-->Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:03:46 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? Everyone, Thanks for the input but what "specifically" is bad about Audi's? Audi's suck is not really useful information to me. Are they mechanically horrible? Are they expensive to repair? Robert Chase john wrote: >I know what you mean about the Audi's... I looked >at an Audi 100 in Germany... would rather drive >a VW. :) > >john > > >On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, derick wrote: > > > >>-->I had an Audi 5000 diesel with a 4 speed. >>--> >>-->Kept it for about 3 weeks and got rid of it. >>--> >>-->Too much "work" to drive. Hard to explain (one of those situations where you >>-->have to drive it for a while to know what I am talking about). I was too >>-->busy behind the wheel. The car just had a "lazy" spirit.... Oddly enough >>-->everything was in stellar mechanical shape so I am at a loss. >>--> >>-->Anyhow the 4000 may be totally different.... >>-->The only bad thing I have heard about one is my coworker almost got killed >>-->when the tranny got away from him and pinned him to the garage floor. >>--> >>-->I will not go near another Audi (and yet I love Volkswagens), but that is >>-->me. >>--> >>-->Good luck. >>--> >>-->Derick >>--> >>--><<<<<<< >>--> >>-->Hey, >>--> >>-->Looking at an Audi 4000 for a friend? Anybody know these cars well? >>-->Looks like its in great shape... >>--> >>-->Robert Chase >>--> >>-->>>>>>>>>> >>--> >>-->--- >>-->Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >>-->Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >>-->Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004 >>--> >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1429 **********************************