From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Apr 23 17:30:58 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, April 24 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1431 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] re:Speaking of cars any Audi people out there Re: [db] Re: "audis suck" Re: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) Re: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? Re: [db] leaking seals (and don't eat the yellow sand???) Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) Re: [db] leaking seals (and don't eat the yellow sand???) [db] Should have been a full moon last night (audi) Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) Re: [db] Should have been a full moon last night (audi) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:51:48 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] re:Speaking of cars any Audi people out there Hmmm, Sounds interesting..... Ill have to drive it and take a look.... Robert Chase Wylie Bean wrote: >Uh, that'd be me.... > >the 4k is a fun little car to drive, agile when all the suspension parts are >intact, and although underpowered at only 115hp (in the 5cyl 4Kq) they're >relatively light and quick. >The only major caveat is that there are some parts that are hard to come by >these days except via used parts suppliers, but there are many of those. >Also, the diff locks in the AWD system in those cars were still vacuum >operated, so diff lock issues arise out of that, not usually mechanicals. > > >Wylie Bean >TheRingmeister-at-triad.rr.com >Greensboro NC >90 cq 20v >99.5 A4 Avant q >82 300D Euro >ex 90 v8 quattro ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:01:24 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Re: "audis suck" Hmmm, One of the things I notice about Audi's is they sometimes have the same mileage as our Benz's but look MUCH better cosmetically. Since the interiors are made mostly of plastic they seem to usually be pristine on the inside even after 20 years or so. While the Zebrano wood is nice its quite rare for even a 10 year old car to survive crack free. While a bit vague I do appreciate the comments here by other list members. Any information is better than no information. Every car has its following. One mans trash is another man's treasure. Some of my friends love my S class until they realize its a "stinky diesel". "Why would you want to drive that rather than your 2002 Honda Accord" they have asked. :) Robert Chase Wylie Bean wrote: >Ok, not to start a pissing match, but either educate yourself with >experience or keep your comments commensurate with said educational level. >I've currently got over 250K miles on my 90 coupe quattro and it's been >unbelievably reliable, will leave nearly any benz of the day in it's wake, >will run absolute circles around anything else on the street in ANY sort of >foul weather, and it's cheaper to maintain than any comparable 35K$ car from >1990 out of Stuttgart. >My wife's A4 has 90k miles, and had I done the recommended timing belt swap >I wouldn't be in the process of having the head rebuilt. Up to that point >it too was like a swiss watch, exhibiting all the other features of any >quattro equipped car, albeit after Audi PAID FOR all the maintenance up to >50K miles, the parts were a bit more expensive than my 90 coupe. > >Don't get me wrong, the benzes this list references are fine vehicles, >simple yet extremely functional and engineered far beyond their years, but >one has to accept that they're not the only car on the road out there like >that. Audis of early 80's vintage did suffer from underexecuted electrical >systems, but by the late 80's early 90's, those issues were mostly resolved, >and had it not been for bogus reporting by your friends at 60 minutes Audi >probably would not have had to experience the renaissance it's been in the >midst of since 1996. > >Have a phenomenal day! >Wylie Bean >TheRingmeister-at-triad.rr.com >Greensboro NC >90 cq 20v >99.5 A4 Avant q >82 300d (gonna keep and put a new clutch in) >ex 90 v8q ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:02:23 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? I love these descriptions...I can almost feel it! At 09:36 PM 4/22/04 , DerickAA wrote: >Hate to say it Robert but I think Audi's are like Glock handguns, well >designed but you either love them or hate them. Yes, but do audis come in a tupperware container? >My A5000 handled like a bastardized Cadillac with a standard tranny. > >Felt like I was in a drunk driving simulator for the 3 weeks I had it. I >promise you I was not on any medications! Everything on the car you had to >do too much. Steering seemed to take forever, shifting felt like a wet >noodle. Even potholes felt like they were on a 7 second delay. I swear the >car was a portal or a tear in the space time continum. :) It might be that these cars come with their own tachyon field. >I could not stand the "Feel of it". I checked the mechanical condition and >asked around and this was typical behavior for this car. I had no problems >selling it and the dude who bought it fell in love with it right away. > >The car and I had a personality conflict. > >I wanted to reach out and shake the car to get it to wake up or pour some >espresso down its throat and I am used to slugs..... > >The real test is the would be driver..... > >Repair parts were on par with Mercedes costwise. > >This is as specific as I can get. > >Derick > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004 Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:05:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) Robert Chase wrote: > > I still think the 617 powered Country would be a fun car. Another car > to consider for your wife that is CHEAP is a 1995 Jaguar XJ6. Its pre *** Hope it's better than our '84. Whatta piece of -at-#$##! So far, I'm almost $15K into it. Where to start? The ridiculously complicated Lucas electrical system? The SIX shock absorbers ( ka-CHING! )? The Rube Goldberg climate control? The cowbells that ring when you close the doors? The endless struggle to keep it from overheating? On the plus side, it's a good driving car. Powerful, nice handling, comfortable. Just be ready to open your wallet widely and frequently. I think I'd be willing to put up with all this crap for an E-type. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:43:22 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Speaking of cars any Audi people out there? On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 10:01:31PM -0700, john wrote: > >-->Hate to say it Robert but I think Audi's are like Glock handguns, well > >-->designed but you either love them or hate them. > > hey, Glock's are great... first time my wife used one she > had a nice tight grouping at the farthest point on the range... > she handles it quite well... nice feel... they're wonderful. :) > > I just can't imagine comparing our Glocks to an Audi... :) Oh man. We went there. And Derick's right. You either love them or you hate them. I don't like them, but there is no denying how overdesigned they are. About half of my friends that have pistols have a Glock of some sort. They shoot fine and have decent balance, but I prefer a 1911. In a pinch, I'd settle for one of those Mark 23s though :) Just remember, a Glock will fire out of battery, and at times, that isn't a really good thing. > >-->My A5000 handled like a bastardized Cadillac with a standard tranny. > > now that sounds like a Ford Taurus... those things were really hard > to drive through a corner, they'd fight you all the way... No, a taurus didn't fight you going around a corner. It won. And you went off the corner. And if the taurus was a SHO, you just went off the corner a whole hell of a lot faster :) And as far as bastardized Cadillacs, nothing from Germany (save maybe a bug - yes, I went there) handled worse than a Cimarron. > >-->The car and I had a personality conflict. > > I've had a few of those... I think all of us who dabble in used cars have had at least ONE. > >-->I wanted to reach out and shake the car to get it to wake up or pour some > >-->espresso down its throat and I am used to slugs..... > > wet noodles and time-space distortions are a much better description > then my vague recollections from a test drive around the outskirts > for Frankfurt... :) Oh yeah, it's coming back to me... the car > started to overheat too... :) I never drove an eighties vintage Audi, but the one early nineties monster with the v8 hauled. It was a really nice car, and handled really well for something its size. I'm not a fan of front wheel drive, but there really is no denying how awesome quattro is. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:45:42 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] leaking seals (and don't eat the yellow sand???) On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 08:56:01PM -0700, john wrote: > My cruise and gauges quit working today... sounds > like a relay isn't engaging completely... that shouldn't > cost too much to fix. :) I'd really look at that one fuse. Even if they look good, often times they are not. And they are CHEAP. Cruise and gauges are on the same fuse. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:59:30 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) ah... an E-type... beautiful looking cars... one of the motor rags ran a test comparison of the old classic sports cars vs. newer cars... believe it or not a Honda Odyssey (mini-van type thing) out handled an e-type!!!! they put newer tech tires on the jag and it was still really close... amazing... john On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >-->Robert Chase wrote: >-->> >-->> I still think the 617 powered Country would be a fun car. Another car >-->> to consider for your wife that is CHEAP is a 1995 Jaguar XJ6. Its pre >--> >-->*** Hope it's better than our '84. Whatta piece of -at-#$##! So far, I'm >-->almost $15K into it. Where to start? The ridiculously complicated Lucas >-->electrical system? The SIX shock absorbers ( ka-CHING! )? The Rube >-->Goldberg climate control? The cowbells that ring when you close the doors? >-->The endless struggle to keep it from overheating? >--> >--> On the plus side, it's a good driving car. Powerful, nice handling, >-->comfortable. Just be ready to open your wallet widely and frequently. >-->I think I'd be willing to put up with all this crap for an E-type. >--> >--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:07:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] leaking seals (and don't eat the yellow sand???) I checked the fuses... nothing in the box is bad... :( It does sound like a stuck relay... have to rip the lower part of the dash apart to see where the buzzing is coming from... john On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 08:56:01PM -0700, john wrote: >-->> My cruise and gauges quit working today... sounds >-->> like a relay isn't engaging completely... that shouldn't >-->> cost too much to fix. :) >--> >-->I'd really look at that one fuse. Even if they look good, often times >-->they are not. And they are CHEAP. >--> >-->Cruise and gauges are on the same fuse. >--> >-->K >--> >-->-- >-->Kevin Pekarek >-->Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >-->Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >-->85 190D (601, 5spd) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:17:09 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: [db] Should have been a full moon last night (audi) Sorry all, I did not mean to start a "Ford" vs. "Chevy" type discussion. I know folks are passionate about their "rides" just like cowboys were/are about their horses. Just trying to give a balanced opinion. (i.e. car is built well and I had no mechanical problems with it but I did not care for the handling) The cars look nice, else I would not have bought it in the first place. I still like the look of Audi's. I really like the A6. There are a few cars that all around "draw a vacuum" , in my opinion, Audi is not in this category. :) The maintenance records of the 5000 indicated it was in outstanding shape and did not require many repairs over the years. This was confirmed by all the checking I did in, around and under the car.(another reason why I bought it) You want specific mechanical issues I cannot give you any because the car was in top mechanical shape. Lets face it, after the effects of a "new to me" car wore off; I realized it needed a new owner. I found it one. Just a personal choice. There are some on this list who like the ride of a 123 better than my beloved 201. Maybe you like a 115 over a 123. etc... I sold my 220d (115) with in 2 months because I did not care for the handling but I love that old Benz look. Anyhow I like "Wabbits" so what do I know... ;) Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:35:01 -0700 From: "xbxx" Subject: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) John, Let me first start by saying I love off-roading, and that topic alone is enough for an entire other mail list... :~) Second I own a '75 Toyota Lancruiser FJ-40 (the jeep looking one), one of the Kings of the offroad climbing fanatics. With the stock I6 and some air lockers, I think it would climb a tree. The V8 guys think they're the cat's meow, but I like the steady torque of the I6 for serious offroading. As for Range Rovers, I have vowed that if I were ever to sell my cruiser, I would *only* do it to buy 1) Another nicer cruiser, or 2) A LandRover Defender 90. Yet after reading a bit on that site, www.rangerovers.net, I might be tempted to test out the Range Rover too. Seems as though they even beat out a 90 in some offroad mag test cases, yet retain the classic Rover style and comfort factors. Now, I can't attest to knowing squat about the mechanical or electrical reliability of these beasts, but I just thought someone should play devil's advocate and say that these things are really known for their abilities and breed, and if you can pick one up for a good price, you might just make yourself a convert after a few trips to the boonies. God knows we have enough of those out here to play in! (and yes yes, I know how much of a Jeep enthusiast you already are :~) - -Wolf - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:28:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] question on Range Rovers - need opinions... :) Decided to check on recalls... only 99 service bulletins... about 20 of those are just manual updates and misc. non-problem gunk. http://www.alldata.com/TSB/68/98680708.html As a reality check I looked at the '99 WJ (first year and I had one.. high miles even) it had 145 bulletins, 2 safety, 1 emission... http://www.alldata.com/TSB/04/990418EQ.html looks like most of those are real problems too... thanx for the input... this will take some thought... :) (since we have no money this won't take a lot of thought... ;) The Rovers have an american designed V8, a ZF tranny... not sure on the xfr case, for some reason I have a hunch it's a borg warner - full time... I have another friend selling an older Rover, also in excellent condition... never really considered these things before... both friends haven't had any of the problems you described... been searching on the web, have found a few folks with a very sour experience with these things... but overall it seems pretty positive... research continues... :) john On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Robert Chase wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->I would suggest avoiding a 1998. Range Rovers are on the same level >-->as Volvos and simply love their service appointments at the >-->dealership. Additionally this vehicle is OBD-II equipped and out of >-->general prinipal I avoid anything made after 1996 becase of this. I >-->have a couple friends with late model Range Rovers. They love their >-->cars but admit they are far from being reliable. Check some parts >-->prices but be sure to be sitting down before you do it. >--> >-->If you want a Range Rover try one of the earlier models such as a >-->early 1990's Country or other older model. An interesting thought. >-->The Range Rover's strong point is the coil spring suspension and >-->chassis. One of its weak points is its electricals and drivetrain. >-->I wonder how nice a OM-617 powered Range Rover would be. That my >-->friend would be a vehicle worthy of a Mercedes Engine. You can get >-->an older Country for as little as $2500. A wee bit cheaper than >-->what your friend is probably asking for his 1998. >--> >-->Robert Chase >--> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:31:18 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] Should have been a full moon last night (audi) hey, Wabbits are cool... the newer vw's with that TDI are very tempting... john At 11:17 AM 4/23/2004, derick wrote: >Sorry all, I did not mean to start a "Ford" vs. "Chevy" type discussion. > >I know folks are passionate about their "rides" just like cowboys were/are >about their horses. > >Just trying to give a balanced opinion. (i.e. car is built well and I had no >mechanical problems with it but I did not care for the handling) > >The cars look nice, else I would not have bought it in the first place. I >still like the look of Audi's. I really like the A6. > >There are a few cars that all around "draw a vacuum" , in my opinion, Audi >is not in this category. :) > >The maintenance records of the 5000 indicated it was in outstanding shape >and did not require many repairs over the years. This was confirmed by all >the checking I did in, around and under the car.(another reason why I bought >it) > >You want specific mechanical issues I cannot give you any because the car >was in top mechanical shape. > >Lets face it, after the effects of a "new to me" car wore off; I realized it >needed a new owner. I found it one. Just a personal choice. > >There are some on this list who like the ride of a 123 better than my >beloved 201. Maybe you like a 115 over a 123. etc... >I sold my 220d (115) with in 2 months because I did not care for the >handling but I love that old Benz look. >Anyhow I like "Wabbits" so what do I know... ;) > >Derick > > > > > > > > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004 - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1431 **********************************