From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Apr 29 09:34:06 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, April 29 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1440 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:01:25 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Well Robert.... When my kids are grown and out of college I'm going to *treat* myself to a sports car. It's always been a '64 1/2 - '66 Mustang convertible OR GT-350 but that 220S could fit the bill ;) Jim/ > Jim, > > You have never struck me as someone that fit the "fool and his money" > proverb. :) > > Robert Chase > > > Jim Hoffman wrote: > > >>1958 Mercedes-Benz 220S 2 Door Convertible > >> MSRP $7,641 > >> Low Retail: $17,400, Average Retail: $32,800, High Retail: $41,300 > >>D.L. Braaten price: $39,500 > >> > >> > > > > > >This is the machine *I* want! ;) > > > >This guy isn't to far from me. About an hours drive. I think I'll > >try to get down there and check out these cars sometime this summer. > >Who knows, maybe I'll come home with a 220S ;) > > > >Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:04:42 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... That's just silly. There are plenty of older gents who have *collected* cars all their lives and now have just lost interest or want to *cash out*. They are not dealers in any sense of the word. Just guys who had the money and the interest. Jim/ > Hmmm, > > Perhaps. Im more interested in the car itself rather than who has owned > it. Anybody selling a personal collection of such size and value is > just really a car dealer. The guy should probably watch out because > depending on his state the regulators of car dealers might flag him as > running an unlicensed car dealership. In Georgia Car dealers have to > come up with a 20,000 surety bond and be fingerprinted by the GBI. The > fines for running an unlicenced dealership are exhorbatant. Of course > the fines are in addition to the sales tax they expect you to pay that > you did not collect from your customers. > > Personally I have never understood why anybody would pay "top dollar" > for a used car. The car you get is the same car you could pay a > reasonable price for and of course even if you pay double the value > there are no guarantes (other than your old wives tales) that the top > dollar car is not going to throw a rod or burn up a transmission within > the next 1,000 miles. Cosmetics are easily repaired and you can buy a > lot of paintwork for the difference in price between a top dollar car > and a reasonable priced car. > > Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:06:09 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Hmmm, Perhaps I should get in the business of refurbishing old cars and selling them for outrageous prices. :) You could "treat" yourself to a car that is a reasonable price that you could restore the way "you" wanted for 1/2 the price :) Robert Chase Jim Hoffman wrote: >Well Robert.... When my kids are grown and out of college I'm going >to *treat* myself to a sports car. It's always been a '64 1/2 - '66 >Mustang convertible OR GT-350 but that 220S could fit the bill ;) > >Jim/ > > > >>Jim, >> >>You have never struck me as someone that fit the "fool and his money" >>proverb. :) >> >>Robert Chase >> >> >>Jim Hoffman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>1958 Mercedes-Benz 220S 2 Door Convertible >>>> MSRP $7,641 >>>> Low Retail: $17,400, Average Retail: $32,800, High Retail: >>>> >>>> >$41,300 > > >>>>D.L. Braaten price: $39,500 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>This is the machine *I* want! ;) >>> >>>This guy isn't to far from me. About an hours drive. I think I'll >>>try to get down there and check out these cars sometime this summer. >>>Who knows, maybe I'll come home with a 220S ;) >>> >>>Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:07:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Mangrum Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... I think he is going to be hosting an event for the mb300 Adenour (sp?) group this fall. Might be a good time to go and see a bunch of 50's MB limo's. Jim Hoffman wrote:> 1958 Mercedes-Benz 220S 2 Door Convertible > MSRP $7,641 > Low Retail: $17,400, Average Retail: $32,800, High Retail: $41,300 > D.L. Braaten price: $39,500 This is the machine *I* want! ;) This guy isn't to far from me. About an hours drive. I think I'll try to get down there and check out these cars sometime this summer. Who knows, maybe I'll come home with a 220S ;) Jim/ Mike M. in Ann Arbor, MI '74 914 2.0, '75 914 1.8, '82 300D TurboDiesel Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:10:47 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Jim, I have several friends that have cars like this. A friend of mine has a warehouse full of Rolls Royce's and early 1960's American cars. They have only sold off one or two cars that have been problematic or were not as represented during purchase. Real collectors might auction off a car in a auto auction to eliminate it. This guy is trolling for bucks asking tip top retail prices on his cars. Any reasonable state inspector would recognize him as a car dealer. Robert Chase Jim Hoffman wrote: >That's just silly. There are plenty of older gents who have *collected* >cars all their lives and now have just lost interest or want to *cash >out*. They are not dealers in any sense of the word. Just guys who >had the money and the interest. > >Jim/ > > > >>Hmmm, >> >>Perhaps. Im more interested in the car itself rather than who has owned >>it. Anybody selling a personal collection of such size and value is >>just really a car dealer. The guy should probably watch out because >>depending on his state the regulators of car dealers might flag him as >>running an unlicensed car dealership. In Georgia Car dealers have to >>come up with a 20,000 surety bond and be fingerprinted by the GBI. The >>fines for running an unlicenced dealership are exhorbatant. Of course >>the fines are in addition to the sales tax they expect you to pay that >>you did not collect from your customers. >> >>Personally I have never understood why anybody would pay "top dollar" >>for a used car. The car you get is the same car you could pay a >>reasonable price for and of course even if you pay double the value >>there are no guarantes (other than your old wives tales) that the top >>dollar car is not going to throw a rod or burn up a transmission within >>the next 1,000 miles. Cosmetics are easily repaired and you can buy a >>lot of paintwork for the difference in price between a top dollar car >>and a reasonable priced car. >> >>Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:14:29 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Well, I disagree... And I don't think this guy will have any troubles with the State of Wisconsin. Jim/ > Jim, > > I have several friends that have cars like this. A friend of mine has a > warehouse full of Rolls Royce's and early 1960's American cars. They > have only sold off one or two cars that have been problematic or were > not as represented during purchase. Real collectors might auction off a > car in a auto auction to eliminate it. This guy is trolling for bucks > asking tip top retail prices on his cars. Any reasonable state > inspector would recognize him as a car dealer. > > Robert Chase > > > Jim Hoffman wrote: > > >That's just silly. There are plenty of older gents who have *collected* > >cars all their lives and now have just lost interest or want to *cash > >out*. They are not dealers in any sense of the word. Just guys who > >had the money and the interest. > > > >Jim/ > > > > > > > >>Hmmm, > >> > >>Perhaps. Im more interested in the car itself rather than who has owned > >>it. Anybody selling a personal collection of such size and value is > >>just really a car dealer. The guy should probably watch out because > >>depending on his state the regulators of car dealers might flag him as > >>running an unlicensed car dealership. In Georgia Car dealers have to > >>come up with a 20,000 surety bond and be fingerprinted by the GBI. The > >>fines for running an unlicenced dealership are exhorbatant. Of course > >>the fines are in addition to the sales tax they expect you to pay that > >>you did not collect from your customers. > >> > >>Personally I have never understood why anybody would pay "top dollar" > >>for a used car. The car you get is the same car you could pay a > >>reasonable price for and of course even if you pay double the value > >>there are no guarantes (other than your old wives tales) that the top > >>dollar car is not going to throw a rod or burn up a transmission within > >>the next 1,000 miles. Cosmetics are easily repaired and you can buy a > >>lot of paintwork for the difference in price between a top dollar car > >>and a reasonable priced car. > >> > >>Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:15:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Mangrum Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... It is usually the case with these kinds of collector cars that the owners put in much more money than they can sell them for. It is usually done more for the pleasure than for a profit. There are probably plenty of guys (and gals?) out there that are shysters (sp?) and I've had the displeasure to have delt with some, but Braaton does not seem to be one of them. He deals with too many that know better. I too don't put much value on who has owned the car before me. Robert Chase wrote: Hmmm, Perhaps I should get in the business of refurbishing old cars and selling them for outrageous prices. :) You could "treat" yourself to a car that is a reasonable price that you could restore the way "you" wanted for 1/2 the price :) Robert Chase Jim Hoffman wrote: >Well Robert.... When my kids are grown and out of college I'm going >to *treat* myself to a sports car. It's always been a '64 1/2 - '66 >Mustang convertible OR GT-350 but that 220S could fit the bill ;) > >Jim/ > > > >>Jim, >> >>You have never struck me as someone that fit the "fool and his money" >>proverb. :) >> >>Robert Chase >> >> >>Jim Hoffman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>1958 Mercedes-Benz 220S 2 Door Convertible >>>> MSRP $7,641 >>>> Low Retail: $17,400, Average Retail: $32,800, High Retail: >>>> >>>> >$41,300 > > >>>>D.L. Braaten price: $39,500 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>This is the machine *I* want! ;) >>> >>>This guy isn't to far from me. About an hours drive. I think I'll >>>try to get down there and check out these cars sometime this summer. >>>Who knows, maybe I'll come home with a 220S ;) >>> >>>Jim/ Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:18:52 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Hmmm, Perhaps. Since im not a lawyer and I am not familiar with the laws of Wisconsin im not sure. Have fun overpaying on those cars. You will probably really thank yourself if you ever get into an accident or need to resell the car and realize its not worth what you paid. Robert Chase Jim Hoffman wrote: >Well, I disagree... And I don't think this guy will have any >troubles with the State of Wisconsin. > >Jim/ > > > >>Jim, >> >>I have several friends that have cars like this. A friend of mine has a >>warehouse full of Rolls Royce's and early 1960's American cars. They >>have only sold off one or two cars that have been problematic or were >>not as represented during purchase. Real collectors might auction off a >>car in a auto auction to eliminate it. This guy is trolling for bucks >>asking tip top retail prices on his cars. Any reasonable state >>inspector would recognize him as a car dealer. >> >>Robert Chase >> >> >>Jim Hoffman wrote: >> >> >> >>>That's just silly. There are plenty of older gents who have *collected* >>>cars all their lives and now have just lost interest or want to *cash >>>out*. They are not dealers in any sense of the word. Just guys who >>>had the money and the interest. >>> >>>Jim/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hmmm, >>>> >>>>Perhaps. Im more interested in the car itself rather than who has >>>> >>>> >owned > > >>>>it. Anybody selling a personal collection of such size and value is >>>>just really a car dealer. The guy should probably watch out because >>>>depending on his state the regulators of car dealers might flag him as >>>>running an unlicensed car dealership. In Georgia Car dealers have to >>>>come up with a 20,000 surety bond and be fingerprinted by the GBI. The >>>>fines for running an unlicenced dealership are exhorbatant. Of course >>>>the fines are in addition to the sales tax they expect you to pay that >>>>you did not collect from your customers. >>>> >>>>Personally I have never understood why anybody would pay "top dollar" >>>>for a used car. The car you get is the same car you could pay a >>>>reasonable price for and of course even if you pay double the value >>>>there are no guarantes (other than your old wives tales) that the top >>>>dollar car is not going to throw a rod or burn up a transmission within >>>>the next 1,000 miles. Cosmetics are easily repaired and you can buy a >>>>lot of paintwork for the difference in price between a top dollar car >>>>and a reasonable priced car. >>>> >>>>Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:26:41 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Agreed, Most "real" collectors easily spend more than the car is worth in repair and restoration. Most "real" car collectors realize however that you can't expect a buyer to absorb your costs in repairing your vehicle. Most "real" collectors don't setup websites with fax numbers and make a business out of their collections. If these cars are really historically signifigant and really restored correctly they would be at a high end car auction selling to the highest bidder for MUCH more than his inflated list prices. Recognize this guy for what he is. A car dealer. Perhaps he has owned the cars for 10-30 years but anybody who makes a business out of their collection is still a car dealer. Robert Chase Mike Mangrum wrote: > It is usually the case with these kinds of collector cars that the > owners put in much more money than they can sell them for. It is > usually done more for the pleasure than for a profit. > > There are probably plenty of guys (and gals?) out there that are > shysters (sp?) and I've had the displeasure to have delt with some, > but Braaton does not seem to be one of them. He deals with too many > that know better. > > I too don't put much value on who has owned the car before me. > > */Robert Chase /* wrote: > > Hmmm, > > Perhaps I should get in the business of refurbishing old cars and > selling them for outrageous prices. :) > > You could "treat" yourself to a car that is a reasonable price > that you > could restore the way "you" wanted for 1/2 the price :) > > Robert Chase > > > Jim Hoffman wrote: > > >Well Robert.... When my kids are grown and out of college I'm going > >to *treat* myself to a sports car. It's always been a '64 1/2 - '66 > >Mustang convertible OR GT-350 but that 220S could fit the bill ;) > > > >Jim/ > > > > > > > >>Jim, > >> > >>You have never struck me as someone that fit the "fool and his > money" > >>proverb. :) > >> > >>Robert Chase > >> > >> > >>Jim Hoffman wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>>1958 Mercedes-Benz 220S 2 Door Convertible > >>>> MSRP $7,641 > >>>> Low Retail: $17,400, Average Retail: $32,800, High Retail: > >>>> > >>>> > >$41,300 > > > > > >>>>D.L. Braaten price: $39,500 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>This is the machine *I* want! ;) > >>> > >>>This guy isn't to far from me. About an hours drive. I think I'll > >>>try to get down there and check out these cars sometime this > summer. > >>>Who knows, maybe I'll come home with a 220S ;) > >>> > >>>Jim/ > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:27:00 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... This is true... And if I were 20 years younger that would be the plan. But as I get older, I think I want to buy ONE car that is DONE. Just buy it and drive it! ;) I already have two '64 1/2 and one '71 Mustang that are basket cases and need ground up restorations. Those are my *retirement projects* ;) Jim/ > Hmmm, > > Perhaps I should get in the business of refurbishing old cars and > selling them for outrageous prices. :) > > You could "treat" yourself to a car that is a reasonable price that you > could restore the way "you" wanted for 1/2 the price :) > > Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:30:39 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Not much diesel content but.... Jim, There is a place near me that specializes in restorations on Mercedes only. They are pricey but your paying for the luxury of not having to deal with the restoration. I bet you would still save money presenting them with a rough driveable car and having it redone. Robert Chase Jim Hoffman wrote: >This is true... And if I were 20 years younger that would be the >plan. But as I get older, I think I want to buy ONE car that is >DONE. Just buy it and drive it! ;) > >I already have two '64 1/2 and one '71 Mustang that are basket cases >and need ground up restorations. Those are my *retirement projects* > >;) > >Jim/ > > > >>Hmmm, >> >>Perhaps I should get in the business of refurbishing old cars and >>selling them for outrageous prices. :) >> >>You could "treat" yourself to a car that is a reasonable price that you >>could restore the way "you" wanted for 1/2 the price :) >> >>Robert Chase ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1440 **********************************