From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 7 19:09:38 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, May 7 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1449 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] 1979 240D RE: [db] 1979 240D Re: [db] 1979 240D [db] Another 190d Re: [db] Another 190d [db] [redghost-at-comcast.net: [DIESEL] Tacoma WA 300D auction] Re: [db] Another 190d [db] shop suggestions [db] SDL's Re: [db] SDL's Re: [db] Another 190d Re: [db] SDL's [db] Vacume leak cause shut down problems? Re: [db] SDL's Re: [db] SDL's Re: [db] SDL's Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:11:14 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: RE: [db] 1979 240D Well I would say yes. 1. This car is a tank so she will be safer. 2. This car is a slug so she cannot speed or bark tires. 3. This car will teach her to think ahead to compensate for lack of ponies. 4. 123 chassis is solid and is not likely to leave her broken down. I am sure someone out there is better qualified on the 616.912 engine than I. I know of two friends who have had to replaced piston rings in theirs and they were well over 250K+ miles. The one I owned performed well. I would let my 16 year daughter old drive it for sure. $2200 is okay if it is in good condition. Good luck, Derick - -----Original Message----- From: Roger Conlon [mailto:benz_2_sdl-at-hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:45 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] 1979 240D Any reason why a 79 240D wouldn't make a good first time car for my 16yr old daughter? No rust around 190,000mi. Everything works. Asking 2,200. Thanks Roger - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.678 / Virus Database: 440 - Release Date: 5/6/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:14:50 +0800 From: "Carballo, Rico A." Subject: RE: [db] 1979 240D No reason at all. It's very reliable, easy on fuel consumption and maintenance, slower than a snail, and safe. Rico > > Any reason why a 79 240D wouldn't make a good first time > car for my 16yr old daughter? No rust around 190,000mi. > Everything works. Asking 2,200. Thanks Roger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 20:17:33 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] 1979 240D I wish I could get my daughter interested in driving a Mercedes Diesel... she doesn't even like to drive my '91 300d... ;) I think this car would be an excellent first car. john Roger Conlon wrote: > Any reason why a 79 240D wouldn't make a good first time car > for my 16yr old daughter? No rust around 190,000mi. Everything works. > Asking 2,200. > Thanks > Roger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 20:37:20 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: [db] Another 190d Hey this sounds like a glow plug/relay problem! This car will not start even in warm weather without a fair amount of cranking (5 min) without at least 2 glow plugs. Do not ask me how I know this. When it does start the car turns into a crop duster for a couple of min. :) Wonder if he checked them before "ripping" it up? Since the head gasket was replaced I have no faith in this engine. If that timing was not set right ouch! If torque on the head bolts were not done right owie... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=247737803 3&category=6783 I sure would like another manual 190d though. :) This is my favorite color. Plus I have a rebuilt 601 engine ready to drop into it... ...and enough parts to build another 601 engine. All I need is a rural 5 acre lot, garage and a flatbed tow truck.... :) I guess diesel Benz are a sickness. ;) Alas, another diamond in the rough must slip away... Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.678 / Virus Database: 440 - Release Date: 5/6/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:04:50 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Another 190d On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 08:37:20PM -0700, derick wrote: > Hey this sounds like a glow plug/relay problem! > This car will not start even in warm weather without a fair amount of > cranking (5 min) without at least 2 glow plugs. > Do not ask me how I know this. When it does start the car turns into a crop > duster for a couple of min. :) > > Wonder if he checked them before "ripping" it up? Probably not. I will laugh my rear off if he didn't even notice that his glow plug light was not even coming on :) > Since the head gasket was replaced I have no faith in this engine. > If that timing was not set right ouch! > If torque on the head bolts were not done right owie... I don't know. Though, with all of the delicate pieces in that engine that have to come off to do a head gasket (like the cam), I'd probably want to tear it apart and put it back together myself. Actually, I'd probably try to get it running then see what happened :) > All I need is a rural 5 acre lot, garage and a flatbed tow truck.... :) > > I guess diesel Benz are a sickness. ;) They truly are. Be glad you all aren't caught up in truly warped sicknesses, like AMC eagles. That really is a hard one to shake. (That reminds me, I still need to send that letter to my ex-girlfriend, who was undoubtedly hurt by my eagle addiction. Well, at least her pride was ) If I had the off-street place to put the sucker while I diagnosed it, I'd throw a tow bar in the powerchoke and go get it. That, or borrow a trailer from a friend of mine who owes me a favor. Alas, this will have to wait until I have a lot like that myself. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:08:16 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: [db] [redghost-at-comcast.net: [DIESEL] Tacoma WA 300D auction] - ----- Forwarded message from Redghost ----- http://tinyurl.com/2ofgk Actually in Fife. This weekend at noon. No affiliation. Would bid myself, but I am out of town. Listed as a 1985, but photo shows 124 body. May go above $1500 reference price, but most likely not. This one may be able to be had for under $500. I have not seen it and already have a W124 body diesel. - ----- End forwarded message ----- This was posted to another mercedes list I am on. Car is up in WA. Picture shows what looks like a w201/w124, but claims to be a five banger turbo, which would not be an 85 w124 (or w201 for that matter). K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:38:06 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Another 190d Did anyone happen to notice the nice w123 right across from the 190D?? ;) This on is in my neighborhood... Actually probably pretty close to Dan G. or Jan G... Either of you want to check it out for us? I'd be willing to hook up the car trailer to the NON-Powerchoke and go pick it up! ;) Jim/ > Hey this sounds like a glow plug/relay problem! > This car will not start even in warm weather without a fair amount of > cranking (5 min) without at least 2 glow plugs. > Do not ask me how I know this. When it does start the car turns into a crop > duster for a couple of min. :) > > Wonder if he checked them before "ripping" it up? > > Since the head gasket was replaced I have no faith in this engine. > If that timing was not set right ouch! > If torque on the head bolts were not done right owie... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=247737803 > 3&category=6783 > > I sure would like another manual 190d though. :) > > This is my favorite color. > > Plus I have a rebuilt 601 engine ready to drop into it... > > ...and enough parts to build another 601 engine. > > All I need is a rural 5 acre lot, garage and a flatbed tow truck.... :) > > I guess diesel Benz are a sickness. ;) > > Alas, another diamond in the rough must slip away... > > > > Derick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 12:28:42 -0400 From: "Ben Esplin" Subject: [db] shop suggestions Does anyone have any suggestions about a shop for a diesel benz in the DC/Northern VA area? I am not sure that I am satisfied with the mechanic I have been using. Any help is appreciated. Ben. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:51:54 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: [db] SDL's Hmmm, Does anybody have any information on the feasability of putting an OM617 engine into an SDL body? Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 12:03:14 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] SDL's I've looked at swapping engines around in Mercedes... shouldn't be too hard, but I recommend grabbing everything involved to make it a smooth swap... mounts, tranny supports... even the rear axle unit so you have matched gears... so basically everything from the radiator to the rear axle housing... driveline included... although there may be difference in driveline length, in which case you use, if possible, the original driveline mated to the transplanted tranny and axle housing. The trick is to avoid welding if at all possible... the variable that is subject to variation should ONLY be the driveshaft. Make sure you grab linkages and wiring as well. You may have to make some adjustments to linkages as well, minor... I would not recommend interchanging transmissions, there are too many variables involved in doing that... Keeping it all intact should make the swap work quite well. Worse case scenario you might have to make an adapter bracket for the motor mounts to move it forward or back a wee bit, however, that will probably not be a problem. I prefer to do engine swaps in the older SJ model Jeeps as the frame setup makes it easy to adjust things... I've done a few engine swaps in uniframe/unibody rigs like the benz before and you end up resorting to the use of a big hammer, torch and a welder to fine tune things... usually the hammer is just to adjust a firewall or inner fender a bit to make clearance... although you're not talking about building a 0 to 60 in 4 second sleeper either... :) If you can find a copy of Four Wheeler from January 1991 and 1992 you'll see my smiling face under a couple of my Jeeps... look in Garage Scenes. :) been there, done that, and amazingly didn't hurt anyone or get any tickets... that little chevy luv truck project sure was fun... :) bumper sticker read "I may be slow, but I'm in front of you..." The guy in the transam REALLY did not like that sticker... ;) john Robert Chase wrote: > Hmmm, > > Does anybody have any information on the feasability of putting an OM617 > engine into an SDL body? > > Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:32:35 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Another 190d On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 12:38:06PM -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: > Did anyone happen to notice the nice w123 right across from the > 190D?? ;) Nope. You gonna make him a package offer? :) > This on is in my neighborhood... Actually probably pretty close > to Dan G. or Jan G... Either of you want to check it out for us? > I'd be willing to hook up the car trailer to the NON-Powerchoke > and go pick it up! ;) aw. you IDI guys are missing out. Missing out on the golden opportunity to carry a $130 piece of electronics in the glove compartment so your truck with more technology than an ATM machine can strand you at the least opportune moment. :) But hey, the extra power of the direct injection is great for tearing up transmissions :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:41:29 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] SDL's On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 02:51:54PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > Does anybody have any information on the feasability of putting an OM617 > engine into an SDL body? To answer your question, a torch, welder, and enough creativity will make anything possible. Yes, I have personally been to John's Monster Garage in Centralia. :) But seriously, why would you want to put a 617 into a 300SDL? Just buy a 300SDL and drive it. If the head ever gives you problems, the money and effort you didn't spend swapping engines can take care of that engine's one weak link - that some heads were prone to cracking. Take the head off a rodbender engine in a yard (plus prechambers and injectors) and you're set. The OM603 3.0L was a decent engine, and had decent power to it. Plus, you don't have to deal with those pesky valve adjustments :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:02:42 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: [db] Vacume leak cause shut down problems? Ho all! Say... is there any reason a vacume leak would cause a 300td (82) to not shut off after turning off the key? I suspect it's a vacume leak as my door locks quite as well... The engine will die off after a few seconds, but it sounds more like the fuel just running out of it. Other then that the car is running great and start right up! I think I might have pintched a hose when I jacked the motor up to swap out the motor mounts a few weeks back(a real easy job btw) but not sure as the problem just started about an hour ago... Anyway. Thanx in advance __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:31:46 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] SDL's Hmmm, I was under the impression that the 6cyl was less long lived than the 5cyl. Personally I would rather deal with Valve adjustments than engine overhauls. The reasoning behind my bizzarre idea is simple. I need a long body car with the maximum mileage capabilities possible at the cheapest price point. 617 engines are cheap and when its time for an overhaul one can just do an entire engine assembly and have your car back on the road in a short period. My main variables are Cost, Longevity and fuel economy. With the 6cyl's increased overhaul costs I would probably be interested in a quieter 300SEL and at least get something back for the additional money I put out. Robert Chase Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 02:51:54PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > >>Does anybody have any information on the feasability of putting an OM617 >>engine into an SDL body? >> >> > >To answer your question, a torch, welder, and enough creativity will make >anything possible. Yes, I have personally been to John's Monster Garage in >Centralia. :) > >But seriously, why would you want to put a 617 into a 300SDL? Just buy a >300SDL and drive it. If the head ever gives you problems, the money and >effort you didn't spend swapping engines can take care of that engine's >one weak link - that some heads were prone to cracking. Take the head off >a rodbender engine in a yard (plus prechambers and injectors) and you're set. > >The OM603 3.0L was a decent engine, and had decent power to it. Plus, you >don't have to deal with those pesky valve adjustments :) > >K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:39:18 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] SDL's Heh heh, Sounds complicated. It may be easier to just put up with the shortcomings of the 6cyl diesel or look into 300SEL's. Speaking of your "I may be slow comment". I had a Fun experience at an open air cafe the other day. Some hippy tree hugging Emory chick was talking really loud about people and their big gas guzzling luxury cars and being obvious about it when I was getting into my 300SD. When I started the car it belched out a huge cloud of diesel smoke (usually does not do this) and it blew right over to her table. I don't think I have ever gotten a more dirty look in my life. My brother and I almost wet ourselves laughing while we were pulling away. Robert Chase john meister wrote: > I've looked at swapping engines around in Mercedes... shouldn't be too > hard, but I recommend grabbing everything involved to make it a smooth > swap... mounts, tranny supports... even the rear axle unit so you have > matched gears... so basically everything from the radiator to the > rear axle housing... driveline included... although there may be > difference in driveline length, in which case you use, if possible, > the original driveline mated to the transplanted tranny and axle housing. > > The trick is to avoid welding if at all possible... the variable > that is subject to variation should ONLY be the driveshaft. Make > sure you grab linkages and wiring as well. You may have to make > some adjustments to linkages as well, minor... > > I would not recommend interchanging transmissions, there are too > many variables involved in doing that... > > Keeping it all intact should make the swap work quite well. Worse > case scenario you might have to make an adapter bracket for the > motor mounts to move it forward or back a wee bit, however, that > will probably not be a problem. > > I prefer to do engine swaps in the older SJ model Jeeps as the > frame setup makes it easy to adjust things... I've done a few > engine swaps in uniframe/unibody rigs like the benz before and > you end up resorting to the use of a big hammer, torch and > a welder to fine tune things... usually the hammer is just to > adjust a firewall or inner fender a bit to make clearance... although > you're not talking about building a 0 to 60 in 4 second sleeper > either... :) If you can find a copy of Four Wheeler from > January 1991 and 1992 you'll see my smiling face under a couple > of my Jeeps... look in Garage Scenes. :) been there, done > that, and amazingly didn't hurt anyone or get any tickets... > that little chevy luv truck project sure was fun... :) bumper > sticker read "I may be slow, but I'm in front of you..." > The guy in the transam REALLY did not like that sticker... ;) > > john > > Robert Chase wrote: > >> Hmmm, >> >> Does anybody have any information on the feasability of putting an >> OM617 engine into an SDL body? >> >> Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:56:27 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] SDL's On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 06:31:46PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > I was under the impression that the 6cyl was less long lived than the > 5cyl. Personally I would rather deal with Valve adjustments than engine > overhauls. True, the 617 is a very long lived engine. The 603 is a decent engine as well. It's hard to beat the 617 in terms of robustness, but the 3.0L can go the distance given proper care. The lifters may get noisy, and the head might crack, but the occurance of head cracking is pretty low, and the lifters, well, I guess I've driven enough gassers with sticky lifters that it doesn't bother me. > The reasoning behind my bizzarre idea is simple. I need a long body car > with the maximum mileage capabilities possible at the cheapest price > point. 617 engines are cheap and when its time for an overhaul one can > just do an entire engine assembly and have your car back on the road in > a short period. Arguably, you could also snag a junkyard 603 and be going again. A rebuild might get your attention. > My main variables are Cost, Longevity and fuel economy. With the 6cyl's > increased overhaul costs I would probably be interested in a quieter > 300SEL and at least get something back for the additional money I put out. The OM603 is actually a pretty quiet engine, and has noticeably more power than the 617. I'd argue that keeping the 603 happy will be cheaper in the long run (and short run) than a 617 swap. Worse comes to worse, wait until the 603 tanks on you before deciding to off it for the 617. Mileage for the 603 is still high twenties, a little lower if you like driving with your foot through the floor. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1449 **********************************