From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 14 10:49:26 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest l-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk Message-Id: Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:10:02 +0000 diesel-benz-digest Friday, May 14 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1455 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] Hmmmm Re: [db] Hmmmm [db] 82 240D weird electrical gremlin Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:34:08 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm Speaking of fuel economy and such. Im REALLY tempted to find another Maserati Quattroporte. I looked at one and seriously considered buying it until I realized it got 4mpg highway. It would be really fun to blast down the expressway in an ultra luxury Italian sedan and waste gallon after gallon of fuel in the process. Hell if everyone else can why cant I. Robert Chase Mike Frank wrote: > One of the strange things about this country is how people look for > corporate conspiracies to explain the things they see. Diesel has been > the subject of a full court press by the environmental lobby, which is > absolutely opposed to expanding the Diesel fleet: > > Sierra Club: "Diesel exhaust may be the most significant public health > threat in urban America today. It contains more than 450 chemical > components, but the main threat it poses can be classified under three > categories: fine particulate matter (PM), nitrogen oxides (NOx) and > toxic compounds." > > Greenpeace: "In terms of litres consumed diesel vehicles have a 15 to > 20% advantage over petrol vehicles. However it is the quantity of CO2 > in the exhaust gas which is relevant for the climate and here diesel > engines produce practically the same amount as the Otto engine. The > explanation for this is that one litre burns to 2.32 kg CO2 with air, > but one litre of diesel burns to 2.63 kg CO2. due to its higher > density and carbon content. This means that 13.4 per cent more CO2 is > emitted per litre of diesel than per litre of petrol. The advantage in > terms of CO2 thus lies at a mere 2 to 7%." > > CARB: In 1990, California identified diesel exhaust as "known to the > State of California to cause cancer." > > NDRC: "Everyone is familiar with the black cloud that belches out of > some diesel trucks and buses when they accelerate. This choking cloud > is not only offensive, but growing evidence shows that it is also a > health hazard. Diesel exhaust is a complex mixture of fine particles > and toxic organic materials which come from the combustion of diesel > fuel. Much of this toxic mix is contributed to our environment by > mobile sources such as trucks, buses, and trains. Diesel exhaust > contains hundreds of constituent chemicals, dozens of which are > recognized human toxicants, carcinogens, reproductive hazards, or > endocrine disruptors.1" > > The research (and I've read many of their reports) generally focuses > on Diesel as a carcinogen. While this may be true enough, there is > almost NO effort directed to researching the toxicity of alternatives. > Considering that benzine is a major component of pump gas, would we be > surprised to find out that gasoline is also a carcinogen? The green > agenda is to promote gasoline hybrids, on the mistaken belief that > they are better for the environment. > > Mike Frank > > > > > At 11:22 AM 5/13/2004, Sam Williams wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> Your logic is perfect but I think you are wrong. American car companies >> want to sell us gas powered SUVs and small trucks. They spend >> incredible >> amounts to promote them and assure the word diesel is never found in our >> media far from the words 'smelly bus.' (BTW, our new busses are diesel >> hybrids.) Also, oil companies make a tiny profit from sales of >> gasoline; >> Exxon isn't about to let anything happen to its cash cow. Together, >> they >> have brainwashed enough of the population that more than half the >> vehicles >> sold are super-sized and run on gas. >> >> Greens try to buy hybrids, diesels and efficient gas vehicles but >> there are >> long waiting lists. The green lobby isn't very powerful in this >> country. >> >> Sam >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >> Behalf Of Mike Frank >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:36 PM >> To: Diesel Benz List (E-mail) >> Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm >> >> I really blame the green lobby. The car companies would LOVE to sell us >> Diesels, which: >> >> 1) They already have on the shelf >> >> 2) Are pretty much transparently substitutable for gasoline motors >> >> 3) Improve fuel economy without sacrificing size or performance >> >> 4) Reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 50% without any new catalyst >> technology. >> >> Sorry, it has to be a small chassis car, I don't believe in deficits.... >> >> PS you can never have enough garlic, but you won't be making any new >> friends tonite! >> >> Mike Frank >> >> >> >> At 08:14 PM 5/12/2004, Robert Chase wrote: >> >> >I already have a chicken in my oven now.... Mmmmmm 40 clove garlic >> chicken >> >(yes John this proves finally that I am not a vampire) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:35:17 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm I agree, but it appears that the EPA isn't concerned with "fuel efficency", they are concerned with emmissions. In that article it states that while diesel engines put out less carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide it puts out more nitrus oxides... BUT, what they don't say is if it's more per mile or more per gallon... If it's more per mile that's a bad thing, but if it's more per gallon then it may actually be less because we go so many more miles on a gallon of fuel! Anybody know for sure?? Jim/ > I found it rather amusing. What I also find so amusing is the "fuel > efficent" cars that really are not that fuel efficent. Its really bad > when my full sized car gets better fuel economy than an "economy car" > > Robert Chase > > > Vernon Tuck wrote: > > >I'm glad y'all picked up on the hybrid fuel economy scandal. I snickered > >when I read it. > > > >Then I went outside and lasciviously fondled my volksie diesel wabbit. > > > >VT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:52:13 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm Mile for mile, Diesels put out less HC, CO2 and CO, more soot and NOx. Take a look at the CO2 figures on http://www.fueleconomy.gov For the 1999 Mercedes E320, the Diesel was rated at 7 tons/year, while the gas version was rated at 8-8.3 tons/year. For the 2004 VW Jetta, the Diesel was rated at 5-5.8 tons/year, gas at 7.1-7.7 tons/year Mike Frank At 12:35 PM 5/13/2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: > Anybody know for sure?? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm if you can find an old copy of Chilton's Diesel Guide, circa 1982-83 they show tons of info proving that Diesels pollute less and are safer then gas engines... the oxides of Nitrogen and this "evil" particulate matter thing being the only "downside". That carbon particles are supposedly cancer causers seems a bit odd. The risk there isn't nearly as great as they're making it when you compare the output of a gasoline engine... The point I usually make to someone bad mouthing a Diesel is this, I'll lock you in a garage with your gas powered vehilcle and we'll let it run... and then we'll do the same thing with a Diesel... oh, wait, should reverse that order or they won't be around to test the Diesel... ;) john On Thu, 13 May 2004, Mike Frank wrote: >-->Mile for mile, Diesels put out less HC, CO2 and CO, more soot and NOx. Take >-->a look at the CO2 figures on http://www.fueleconomy.gov >--> >-->For the 1999 Mercedes E320, the Diesel was rated at 7 tons/year, while the >-->gas version was rated at 8-8.3 tons/year. >--> >-->For the 2004 VW Jetta, the Diesel was rated at 5-5.8 tons/year, gas at >-->7.1-7.7 tons/year >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> >--> >--> >-->At 12:35 PM 5/13/2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->> Anybody know for sure?? >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:46:46 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 12:34:08PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > Speaking of fuel economy and such. Im REALLY tempted to find another > Maserati Quattroporte. I looked at one and seriously considered buying > it until I realized it got 4mpg highway. It would be really fun to > blast down the expressway in an ultra luxury Italian sedan and waste > gallon after gallon of fuel in the process. Hell if everyone else can > why cant I. There is a rather nice quattroporte out here in the bay area, guy wanted $7500 for it. Engine has about 15k on a rebuild. Memory serving me, that rebuild is about $7000 or so, if you're lucky. I have always liked the lines of those, and the performance is astounding. Who cares about fuel mileage on a weekend car? This isn't your "I need milk, lemme run to the store" car, or the "I gotta go pick up the kids" car, etc, etc. (Unless you are running really REALLY late, of course ) Granted, we're talking italian machinery, so IF you can blast down the highway long enough to waste gallon after gallon, you're doing something right. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:37:45 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm Yeah, Actually I have seen them cheaper locally. The one I was looking at was about $3000 and was in near perfect cosmetic condition and ran very well. It also was my color combination (black and tan). I thought it might make a nice "extra car" until I realized it was one of the worlds worst fuel efficent sedans. This thing makes a Rolls Royce seem like it gets good fuel economy. In retrospect I wish I had bought it because I would be driving the doors of the damn thing. If everybody else can waste fuel in gigantic SUV's so can I. And when the price of fuel is up to $5-$8 per gallon I have my diesel to drive when nobody can afford to even start their cars anymore :) Robert chase Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 12:34:08PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > >>Speaking of fuel economy and such. Im REALLY tempted to find another >>Maserati Quattroporte. I looked at one and seriously considered buying >>it until I realized it got 4mpg highway. It would be really fun to >>blast down the expressway in an ultra luxury Italian sedan and waste >>gallon after gallon of fuel in the process. Hell if everyone else can >>why cant I. >> >> > >There is a rather nice quattroporte out here in the bay area, guy wanted >$7500 for it. Engine has about 15k on a rebuild. > >Memory serving me, that rebuild is about $7000 or so, if you're lucky. >I have always liked the lines of those, and the performance is astounding. >Who cares about fuel mileage on a weekend car? This isn't your "I need milk, >lemme run to the store" car, or the "I gotta go pick up the kids" car, >etc, etc. > >(Unless you are running really REALLY late, of course ) > >Granted, we're talking italian machinery, so IF you can blast down the >highway long enough to waste gallon after gallon, you're doing something >right. > >K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:19:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 12:34:08PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > Speaking of fuel economy and such. Im REALLY tempted to find another > > Maserati Quattroporte. I looked at one and seriously considered buying > > it until I realized it got 4mpg highway. It would be really fun to *** Gee, we had a Volvo 164E that got 5MPG - and it wasn't nearly as much fun as that Quattroporte... - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:20:33 +0000 From: "Renaud (Ron) Olgiati" Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm On Thursday 13 May 2004 5:02 pm, john wrote: > The point I usually make to someone bad mouthing a Diesel > is this, I'll lock you in a garage with your gas powered > vehilcle and we'll let it run... and then we'll do the > same thing with a Diesel... oh, wait, should reverse that > order or they won't be around to test the Diesel... ;) With modern catalysed gas engines, he may well still be around. Cheers, Ron. - -- Take your work seriously but never take yourself seriously; and do not take what happens either to yourself or your work seriously. -- Booth Tarkington -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:30:35 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm I absolutely love the old 164Es. My parents had a '72 that they sold with about 250,000 miles with no motor work. They saw it years later and it had well over 350,000 miles on it. Great cars. My parents got mid-20s for economy, BTW. :) J.B. At 11:19 AM 5/13/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 12:34:08PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > > Speaking of fuel economy and such. Im REALLY tempted to find another > > > Maserati Quattroporte. I looked at one and seriously considered buying > > > it until I realized it got 4mpg highway. It would be really fun to > >*** Gee, we had a Volvo 164E that got 5MPG - and it wasn't nearly as >much fun as that Quattroporte... > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:07:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] Hmmmm J.B. Hebert wrote: > > I absolutely love the old 164Es. My parents had a '72 that they sold with > about 250,000 miles with no motor work. They saw it years later and it had > well over 350,000 miles on it. Great cars. My parents got mid-20s for > economy, BTW. :) > *** This was a '72 as well. With tuning & tweeking, I got it up to 8MPG. I personally would have kept it and restored it, but it was my son's car, and he decided to sell it. We had gotten new front seats out of a 240, they fit fine. Most comfortable car seats I ever sat in. The parts commonality for those cars was really amazing. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:08:55 -0400 From: wblack-at-deltacorp.com Subject: [db] 82 240D weird electrical gremlin Got home last night, shut off the car and had a faint glow coming from the E-brake light, the brake sensor light, and the charge light. Setting the parking brake made the one light brighter. I disconnected the battery until I left for work this morning. Re-connecting the battery this morning produced the same results with the key in the OFF position. Once the car is started,