From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed May 19 13:07:09 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, May 19 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1461 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 87 300D Re: [db] 240D mileage Re: [db] 87 300D Re: [db] 240D mileage Re: [db] 240D mileage Re: [db] 240D mileage Re: [db] 87 300D Re: [db] 240D mileage Re: [db] 87 300D RE: [db] 240D Q's [db] More 93 300TD follies [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:57:11 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] 87 300D On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 02:17:56PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > Of course there is the 6-7k engine rebuild. Completely ruins the car > for my purposes. Robert is right. The 3.0L OM603 was known for cracking heads. Granted not all of them do it, and there is a fix (upgraded head), and since you're looking for an SDL, you've already decided to deal with it... If it were my money and I had the money to do so, I'd probably hold out for a 300d like John has - with the 2.5L OM602. That aside, sagging rear suspension is incredibly expensive unless you do the work yourself (which isn't that hard, just time consuming), and if the A/C doesn't work, start counterfeiting thousand dollar bills. :) Other than that, w124s are great cars. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:00:18 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] 240D mileage AH! Thats why I am getting low fuel economy! Thats the last time I lend my car to uncle Vito. He always locks the trunk and leaves violin cases in the back seat. Robert Chase john wrote: >remove the anvils from the trunk (or former associates) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:16:41 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] 87 300D Longevity is more important to me than fuel economy. My OM617 powered SD can have an engine replaced for $1500-2000 and a transmission for about the same figure. While some would consider it a waste as its more than half the value of the car it would be worth it if you liked your car as I do. When you can buy multiple cars for the cost of an engine overhaul its quite difficult to love a car that might be imperfect in other ways. Speaking of A/C I discovered the compressor in my car is the same compressor that goes into a 1985 GMC pickup. Instead of paying $275 for a rebuilt compressor I can get one for $100 at the MCparts store. Mercedes used a lot of GM compressors on other cars. The Mercedes GM compressor is usually a lot more expensive than the GM GM compressor. They are both identical parts. Love how parts people put the screws to you just because you have a three pointed star on your hood. Robert Chase Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 02:17:56PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > >>Of course there is the 6-7k engine rebuild. Completely ruins the car >>for my purposes. >> >> > >Robert is right. The 3.0L OM603 was known for cracking heads. Granted not >all of them do it, and there is a fix (upgraded head), and since you're looking >for an SDL, you've already decided to deal with it... > >If it were my money and I had the money to do so, I'd probably hold out for >a 300d like John has - with the 2.5L OM602. > >That aside, sagging rear suspension is incredibly expensive unless you do >the work yourself (which isn't that hard, just time consuming), and if the >A/C doesn't work, start counterfeiting thousand dollar bills. :) > >Other than that, w124s are great cars. > >K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:20:08 -0700 From: "junot" Subject: Re: [db] 240D mileage heh` ... i'll try the valve adjustment for starters ... thx, junot - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "junot" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [db] 240D mileage > On Tue, 18 May 2004, junot wrote: > > >-->greetings list ... > >--> > >-->my wife's 82 300D gets around 22-24 mpg ... my daughter's 240D is getting > >-->about the same ... > >-->most here seem to be getting low 30's with the 240 ... is there > >-->some way to 'tune' the 240 to get a bit better mileage ? > > clean injectors squirting properly > fresh timing chain > proper valve adjustment > properly timed injection pump > an Amsoil two stage air filter > Amsoil 100% Synthetic Diesel oil, pick your weight. > 30W HD is good, I like the 15w40 marine grade, but am > using the new 5w30 Synthetic Diesel oil now... > good tires with air pressure up. > good wax job, > ditch that 3x5 foot american flag on your antenna.. > ditch those girlie mudflaps... > remove the aussie bullbar and winch > remove the anvils from the trunk (or former associates) > make sure all the vacuum goodies are working properly... > if all else fails: > get a tow bar... draft big trucks... coast down hills... ;) > > fwiw, my non-turbo 300d was getting around 25mpg in town... 28 or > so on the highway... my '83 300sd did 26/29... and I'm not > known for my economical driving skills... you might consider > having the valves/timing chain and injectors checked... > > john > > >--> > >-->thanks, > >-->junot > >--> > >-->> I have never gotten better than 27 but I'm sure I could break 30 if I kept > >-->> it below 50 mph but the thought of the 'blue-hairs' flashing their > >-->> high-beams and giving me the 'bird' is more than I could bear. ;) > >-->> > >-->> Waylon Black > >-->> Little Elm, Texas > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> Well, not that I've heard of. The problem with 240Ds getting 190D mileage > >-->> is twofold - w123s are much heavier, and 240Ds have 3.5x gears in the > >-->back, > >-->> compared to the 3.0x or 2.65 gears that the 300Ds have. > >-->> > >-->> Best I've heard out of a 240D four speed is low to mid 30s, and that's by > >-->> someone who is not in a hurry to get anywhere (read: 65 tops). > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:52:49 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: [db] 240D mileage I was getting rather poor mileage on my 240D until I noticed that the thermostat had stuck open and the engine wouldn't heat up. Replacing the T-stat pushed my mileage up by a considerable amount. Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Vernon Tuck" Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [db] 240D mileage > the guy that bought my non-turbo '81 300d went through the > valve train, timing chain, etc. got it up to 33 mpg on the freeway... > if I recall correctly... > > shoot, I had an '80 Olds with the 5.7L targetmaster engine that > got 33mpg going across Idaho coming back from Illinois one summer... > > my '85 cherokee with the 2.1L TD got 32mpg on the open road, > it had a 5speed... it got 26mpg in town... couldn't tow > it's own shadow though and the french thought their replacement > parts were gold plated... ;) > > john > > On Tue, 18 May 2004, Vernon Tuck wrote: > > >-->I also cannot imagine a 240D getting but barely better than 30mpg. > >--> > >-->My wabbits, which weliably get 42 will wun circles awound the 240D. > >--> > >-->VT > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:23:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 240D mileage On Tue, 18 May 2004, Robert Chase wrote: >-->AH! >-->Thats why I am getting low fuel economy! Thats the last time I lend my >-->car to uncle Vito. He always locks the trunk and leaves violin cases in >-->the back seat. >-->Robert Chase >-->john wrote: >-->>remove the anvils from the trunk (or former associates) he did pay for the window tint though right? ;) watch out for those concrete overshoes... hard to swim with those ya know... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:02:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] 87 300D Robert Chase wrote: > > Speaking of A/C I discovered the compressor in my car is the same > compressor that goes into a 1985 GMC pickup. *** I got a rebuilt compressor the McParts for my 300D for $110. Didn't have to do any special cross-referencing. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) Instead of paying $275 for > a rebuilt compressor I can get one for $100 at the MCparts store. > Mercedes used a lot of GM compressors on other cars. The Mercedes GM > compressor is usually a lot more expensive than the GM GM compressor. > They are both identical parts. Love how parts people put the screws to > you just because you have a three pointed star on your hood. > > Robert Chase > > Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > >On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 02:17:56PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > > > > >>Of course there is the 6-7k engine rebuild. Completely ruins the car > >>for my purposes. > >> > >> > > > >Robert is right. The 3.0L OM603 was known for cracking heads. Granted not > >all of them do it, and there is a fix (upgraded head), and since you're looking > >for an SDL, you've already decided to deal with it... > > > >If it were my money and I had the money to do so, I'd probably hold out for > >a 300d like John has - with the 2.5L OM602. > > > >That aside, sagging rear suspension is incredibly expensive unless you do > >the work yourself (which isn't that hard, just time consuming), and if the > >A/C doesn't work, start counterfeiting thousand dollar bills. :) > > > >Other than that, w124s are great cars. > > > >K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:13:40 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] 240D mileage Heh heh, Nahh.... Still considering the window tinting...... Found some old pics of my car when I first bought it. SCARY!! Robert Chase john wrote: >On Tue, 18 May 2004, Robert Chase wrote: > > >>-->AH! >>-->Thats why I am getting low fuel economy! Thats the last time I lend my >>-->car to uncle Vito. He always locks the trunk and leaves violin cases in >>-->the back seat. >>-->Robert Chase >>-->john wrote: >>-->>remove the anvils from the trunk (or former associates) >> >> > >he did pay for the window tint though right? ;) > >watch out for those concrete overshoes... hard to swim with those ya know... ;) > >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:15:53 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] 87 300D Hmmm, My car was $275 for the Mercedes part and $100 for the GM part. Did you happen to mention the MB name when you bought your compressor? Robert Chase Jerome Kaidor wrote: >Robert Chase wrote: > > >>Speaking of A/C I discovered the compressor in my car is the same >>compressor that goes into a 1985 GMC pickup. >> >> >*** I got a rebuilt compressor the McParts for my 300D for $110. Didn't >have to do any special cross-referencing. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > > > > > Instead of paying $275 for > > >>a rebuilt compressor I can get one for $100 at the MCparts store. >>Mercedes used a lot of GM compressors on other cars. The Mercedes GM >>compressor is usually a lot more expensive than the GM GM compressor. >>They are both identical parts. Love how parts people put the screws to >>you just because you have a three pointed star on your hood. >> >>Robert Chase >> >>Kevin Pekarek wrote: >> >> >> >>>On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 02:17:56PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Of course there is the 6-7k engine rebuild. Completely ruins the car >>>>for my purposes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Robert is right. The 3.0L OM603 was known for cracking heads. Granted not >>>all of them do it, and there is a fix (upgraded head), and since you're looking >>>for an SDL, you've already decided to deal with it... >>> >>>If it were my money and I had the money to do so, I'd probably hold out for >>>a 300d like John has - with the 2.5L OM602. >>> >>>That aside, sagging rear suspension is incredibly expensive unless you do >>>the work yourself (which isn't that hard, just time consuming), and if the >>>A/C doesn't work, start counterfeiting thousand dollar bills. :) >>> >>>Other than that, w124s are great cars. >>> >>>K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] 240D Q's On Tue, 18 May 2004 wblack-at-deltacorp.com wrote: >-->Do you have the legend for the numbers IE 1-15? actually... no. but the performance products catalog will... or their website... they're a bit pricey on most things, but they have some items that no one else does, like vented rotors... they also have the cupholders at the same price as the benz dealer so I don't mind buying them there. :) john >--> >-->Thanks, >-->Waylon >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >-->Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 1:20 PM >-->To: wblack-at-deltacorp.com >-->Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->Subject: Re: [db] 240D Q's >--> >-->On Tue, 18 May 2004 wblack-at-deltacorp.com wrote: >--> >-->>-->Well the electrical gremlin must have fell off. The car 'fixed' itself. >-->With >-->>-->the weather warming up thought it might be time to see if the A/C works >-->on >-->>-->the $125 240D. We have managed to put 20K miles on it since November and >-->my >-->>-->respect has grown for the 123 series 240D. Could not find the gauges so >-->I >-->>-->used my can tap and shot a can of Freeze 12 in. It had very little to >-->begin >-->>-->with. (snap)I hear the sound of the compressor kicking on, (grin) no >-->noises >-->>-->and the air starts to cool. >-->>--> >-->>-->While getting the can to empty itself, I noticed a vacuum sensor on the >-->>-->t-stat housing with some missing hoses. What is this sensor for and >-->where do >-->>-->the hoses go? >--> >-->sounds like a thermal advance sensor for the fast idle, or possible >-->for the egr valve... look at >-->http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/VACUUM-Diagrams/240d-1982-83-auto-trans >-->-vac.jpg >-->for ideas... also one for manual trans there too.. >--> >-->>-->Also, where is the sending unit for the temp gauge? Is it the unit >-->between >-->>-->the center glow plugs? The temp started to read barely over 40 one day. >-->I >-->>-->thought T-stat, replaced with new - no change. >--> >-->that sounds right... >--> >-->john >--> >-->>--> >-->>-->Thanks, >-->>--> >-->>-->Waylon Black >-->>-->Little Elm, Texas >-->>--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:19:53 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: [db] More 93 300TD follies Edward Pomeroy wrote: The more I check this beastie the more strange things are found. Is the Power Steering fluid supposed to be pitch black? It is at the correct level but the steering feels a bit heavy. This may be just a heavy car or the fluid is worn out completely. No screeches or other symptoms tho'. Anyone ant to part with a Chiltons or Haynes that covers the 93 300D with 2.5 turbo engine? I think I really need one. BTW, is there any U.S. or generic PS fluid that crosses to the Benz stuff? No complaints, 500 miles last weekend at 30 MPG and a heavy foot (Dayton Hamvention). Edward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:02:43 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! (Posting to the diesel list, too, because I'm somewhat of a regular there, and this investment is likely to mean it will be a little longer before I return to the diesel fold.) At 169,000 miles, and under my less than ideal care, my 89 300CE was reaching a decision point. Do I try to sell it while it's still (barely) sellable, or do I sink a good chunk of change into her? I finally started a new job just a few weeks ago, so I don't have free time to work on it myself, nor did I feel qualified to tackle the suspension. The AC was dead again, she had started rattling over some bumps, she'd gained some fairly sudden additional play in the steering, and boy did that idle feel rough. Aww heck. I still look darned good in this car. Might as well renew our vows and stick with her a few more years. So I just invested probably as much money as she would have been worth in trade-in at most places. The crew down at Ben's Workshop fixed my A/C (big hose, receiver/dryer, a pressure switch, 52 ounces of R12 at 4 bucks an ounce), discovered that my recent alarming oil consumption was simply a leaky valve cover gasket, then replaced shocks and struts (plus front upper mounts, boots, and buffers), drag link, steering shock, idler arm bushings, something related to the track rod, serpentine belt with its tensioner and tensioner shock, fan bearing bracket and idler pulley, motor mounts, spark plugs, and some fluids, filters, and a coupla hoses. I gotta make sure I don't tell my wife how much I actually spent on the work, but OOOH BABY BABY, the car is so sweet now. The steering and suspension are tighter than when I bought the car 4 or 5 years ago, so she's Better Than New to me. Side to side steering transitions no longer have a dead spot in the middle where you could feel the suspension sucking up the slop. The steering responds RIGHT NOW. The air conditioner works. (I know, I'll enjoy that one while I can, cause that's bound not to last.) I have to watch the tach to convince myself the motor didn't die at every stop with those new motor mounts. Driving back from the shop, I was giggling more than when I test drove that brand new SL 500 a couple months ago. I almost wish I'd made this investment in my 85 300D. I gotta say, for anyone debating about a beloved Benz with tired suspension, just do it. I'm falling in love with this car all over again. Admittedly, living with a rental Toyota Echo for almost a week helps emphasize how well rounded and well balanced the MB engineering is, but I expect to have loads of fun now. And I have high hopes that oil usage may finally be no more than one quart between changes. The only downside other than the initial budget outlay is the reminder of just how much power the AC saps. I've been without it for quite a while, and I have to say that the M103 WITHOUT running AC is a wonderful match for the car. Expect far fewer second gear chirps from us through the hot Texas summer. If anyone's curious, I can tell you how many hours of labor a professional independent MB specialist shop charges for some of these repairs. Just ask, but be patient. I haven't signed on to the lists with my new work email yet, and they block access to any other email, so consider me to be in digest mode for now. Happy Benzing, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas very happy 89 300CE, 169K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1461 **********************************