From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed May 19 13:07:22 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, May 19 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1462 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] More on Hybrids Re: [db] fuel prices Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! RE: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! RE: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! RE: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! [db] E320CDI in todays LA Times Re: [db] E320CDI in todays LA Times Re: [db] fuel prices Re: [db] More 93 300TD follies Re: [db] E320CDI in todays LA Times Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:28:07 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: [db] More on Hybrids This guy, in my opinion, has an interesting take on the EPA mileage discrepancy. Thought you all (y'all) might be interested. http://www.motherearthnews.com/index.php?page=rec&rid=re&id=2114 Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.688 / Virus Database: 449 - Release Date: 5/18/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:26:22 -0400 From: "Eurowerks" Subject: Re: [db] fuel prices Dang, and I thought that the $1.59 that I was having to pay for diesel was ridiculous! :) :) :) Kirk A. Gilchrist EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair 8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 eurowerks-at-qx.net / 888-522-0271 toll free ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:10:46 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! Having recently replaced every wearable suspension item under my '82 300CD, I totally understand. The car drives like new again (better, actually, since I upgraded to the HD Bilsteins). It was certainly worth the modest outlay in parts and a couple weekends of wrenching. My attititude is that as long as I'm spending less a month in parts than I would be on a car payment, I'm doing well. J.B. At 09:02 PM 5/18/2004 -0500, you wrote: >(Posting to the diesel list, too, because I'm somewhat of a regular there, >and this investment is likely to mean it will be a little longer before I >return to the diesel fold.) > >At 169,000 miles, and under my less than ideal care, my 89 300CE was >reaching a decision point. Do I try to sell it while it's still (barely) >sellable, or do I sink a good chunk of change into her? I finally started a >new job just a few weeks ago, so I don't have free time to work on it >myself, nor did I feel qualified to tackle the suspension. The AC was dead >again, she had started rattling over some bumps, she'd gained some fairly >sudden additional play in the steering, and boy did that idle feel rough. > >Aww heck. I still look darned good in this car. Might as well renew our vows >and stick with her a few more years. So I just invested probably as much >money as she would have been worth in trade-in at most places. The crew down >at Ben's Workshop fixed my A/C (big hose, receiver/dryer, a pressure switch, >52 ounces of R12 at 4 bucks an ounce), discovered that my recent alarming >oil consumption was simply a leaky valve cover gasket, then replaced shocks >and struts (plus front upper mounts, boots, and buffers), drag link, >steering shock, idler arm bushings, something related to the track rod, >serpentine belt with its tensioner and tensioner shock, fan bearing bracket >and idler pulley, motor mounts, spark plugs, and some fluids, filters, and a >coupla hoses. > >I gotta make sure I don't tell my wife how much I actually spent on the >work, but OOOH BABY BABY, the car is so sweet now. The steering and >suspension are tighter than when I bought the car 4 or 5 years ago, so she's >Better Than New to me. Side to side steering transitions no longer have a >dead spot in the middle where you could feel the suspension sucking up the >slop. The steering responds RIGHT NOW. The air conditioner works. (I know, >I'll enjoy that one while I can, cause that's bound not to last.) I have to >watch the tach to convince myself the motor didn't die at every stop with >those new motor mounts. Driving back from the shop, I was giggling more than >when I test drove that brand new SL 500 a couple months ago. > >I almost wish I'd made this investment in my 85 300D. I gotta say, for >anyone debating about a beloved Benz with tired suspension, just do it. I'm >falling in love with this car all over again. Admittedly, living with a >rental Toyota Echo for almost a week helps emphasize how well rounded and >well balanced the MB engineering is, but I expect to have loads of fun now. >And I have high hopes that oil usage may finally be no more than one quart >between changes. > >The only downside other than the initial budget outlay is the reminder of >just how much power the AC saps. I've been without it for quite a while, and >I have to say that the M103 WITHOUT running AC is a wonderful match for the >car. Expect far fewer second gear chirps from us through the hot Texas >summer. > >If anyone's curious, I can tell you how many hours of labor a professional >independent MB specialist shop charges for some of these repairs. Just ask, >but be patient. I haven't signed on to the lists with my new work email yet, >and they block access to any other email, so consider me to be in digest >mode for now. > >Happy Benzing, >Alec Cordova >Taylor, Texas >very happy 89 300CE, 169K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:16:37 -0400 From: Paul Brown Subject: Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! Describe what effect you think the HD shocks have on the feel of the car. What difference would you have expected if you'd saved the $10 or so and gotten the regular Bilsteins? J.B. Hebert wrote: > Having recently replaced every wearable suspension item under my '82 > 300CD, I totally understand. The car drives like new again (better, > actually, since I upgraded to the HD Bilsteins). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:18:52 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 12:16:37PM -0400, Paul Brown wrote: > Describe what effect you think the HD shocks have on the feel of the > car. What difference would you have expected if you'd saved the $10 or > so and gotten the regular Bilsteins? Well, when I put the bilstein HDs in the back of my 190D, the car drove like a chopped rice rocket. I had to put 500 lbs in the trunk and drive to work for a couple of weeks like that before it mellowed out. I can't deny that it handled better, but since Caltrans has yet to figure out how to pave a road, I don't know if it was worth it for me. Next time, on a car that light, I think I'm going with comforts. :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:25:31 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! Heh heh, Can't say Im interested in performance at all...... Mostly comfort in my car....... Amazingly enough for as large as the car is the handling is quite amazing..... Robert Chase Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 12:16:37PM -0400, Paul Brown wrote: > > >>Describe what effect you think the HD shocks have on the feel of the >>car. What difference would you have expected if you'd saved the $10 or >>so and gotten the regular Bilsteins? >> >> > >Well, when I put the bilstein HDs in the back of my 190D, the car drove >like a chopped rice rocket. I had to put 500 lbs in the trunk and drive >to work for a couple of weeks like that before it mellowed out. I can't >deny that it handled better, but since Caltrans has yet to figure out how >to pave a road, I don't know if it was worth it for me. > >Next time, on a car that light, I think I'm going with comforts. :) > >K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:28:32 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 09:02:43PM -0500, Alec Cordova wrote: > I almost wish I'd made this investment in my 85 300D. I gotta say, for > anyone debating about a beloved Benz with tired suspension, just do it. I'm > falling in love with this car all over again. Admittedly, living with a > rental Toyota Echo for almost a week helps emphasize how well rounded and > well balanced the MB engineering is, but I expect to have loads of fun now. > And I have high hopes that oil usage may finally be no more than one quart > between changes. This is essentially what I started doing on the 190D - the suspension was starting to age, and good old california highways weren't helping matters any. When the rear subframe mounts collapsed, I got the opportunity to see how shot the rest of the links were, and knew my work was cut out for me. The upside is each dollar I throw into the rear end of the car I notice dramatically going down the road. Sure, I don't have the grin you have, but the car has become a lot more pleasurable to drive in the past couple of months. And you're right. I've driven toasters (appliance cars), and they really leave a lot to be desired. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:59:15 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! The HD shocks make a huge difference in the personality of the car, and I'd never run anything else on a 123 chassis car again. The standard Bilsteins are nice, but tend to be a bit floaty. They also allow for a fair amount of body roll during rapid steering inputs and a bit of nose dive during hard breaking. The HD Bilsteins eliminate 90% of the unwanted body movement and make the car feel much lighter on its feet. I was looking into ways of supplementing the stock sway bars because of the body roll, but now I can put that on the back burner since it is not really an issue anymore. My car has 16" rims with 205/55-16 Conti's and I can keep up with pretty much any sport sedan in the twisties. The ride is slightly harsher, but still very comfortable. A minor concession to make for what feels like a completely different car. If you drive your car instead of simply riding in it, I highly recommend them. Hope this helps. J.B. At 12:16 PM 5/19/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Describe what effect you think the HD shocks have on the feel of the >car. What difference would you have expected if you'd saved the $10 or so >and gotten the regular Bilsteins? > >J.B. Hebert wrote: > >>Having recently replaced every wearable suspension item under my '82 >>300CD, I totally understand. The car drives like new again (better, >>actually, since I upgraded to the HD Bilsteins). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:40:47 -0500 From: Subject: RE: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! > The upside is each dollar I throw into the rear end of the > car I notice dramatically going down the road. Sure, I don't have > the grin you have, but the car has become a lot more pleasurable > to drive in the past couple of months. > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > 85 190D (601, 5spd) The part that simply has to be accepted is while I agree that you can feel the improvement from each dollar you spend, I don't expect the resale value of my car to have just increased by anything close to what I shelled out. But since I definitely decided to keep the car for a while, I think it's money pretty well spent. I also got the big grin when driving out of the shop because I had all the work done at once, so the change was more dramatic. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:46:13 -0500 From: Subject: RE: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! I bet a 123 coupe with the HD Bilsteins is loads of fun. I would suggest that the 123 probably benefits the most from the HD shocks, with maybe a 126 with soft-sidewalled tires being about the only other "recent" MB that could be considered an overall improvement with the HD units. I think the "default" setup of the 201/124 is a lot more controlled than the default on a US-spec 123, and bumping up to the HDs is just a little too much. I also remember seeing somewhere that deliveries to some countries used the HD units from the factory, although I can't remember whether this was referring to 123 or 124 cars. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:05:47 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: RE: [db] Renewed my vows with my 89 300CE - Oooh Baby Baby! As far as I know, the HD's were an option in non-US countries. Apparently, MB assumed that the HD's would not be cushy enough on our crappy roads. :) J.B. At 01:46 PM 5/19/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I bet a 123 coupe with the HD Bilsteins is loads of fun. > >I would suggest that the 123 probably benefits the most from the HD >shocks, with maybe a 126 with soft-sidewalled tires being about the only >other "recent" MB that could be considered an overall improvement with >the HD units. I think the "default" setup of the 201/124 is a lot more >controlled than the default on a US-spec 123, and bumping up to the HDs >is just a little too much. > >I also remember seeing somewhere that deliveries to some countries used >the HD units from the factory, although I can't remember whether this >was referring to 123 or 124 cars. > >Alec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:11:13 -0700 From: Nick.Eckert-at-theaustin.com Subject: [db] E320CDI in todays LA Times In todays LA Times, Highway 1 section, they feature a cover story on the E320 CDI, by Jim Mateja of the Chicago Times. Unfortunetly, you can tell the writer has never owned a diesel, through his description of the trials and tribulations of diesel ownership such as drinking a cup of coffee while waiting for the glow plugs to warm. Cheers, Nick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:32:24 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] E320CDI in todays LA Times ever been to Chicago in January? you could wait for the coffee to brew, cool to suitable drinking temperature and that would only be just to have the radio to start... :) - -30 to -40 degrees F is not uncommon... I remember how crystal clear the am radio would be in crystal lake, illinois in that cold weather... of course it seemed like minutes before it would come on... and it was hard to enjoy the clarity while shivering that hard too... ;) of course no one experienced with a Chicago winter would enter a vehicle with a cup of coffee... you'd immediately frost and freeze the inside of all the windows... you get into your vehicle bundled up like an eskimo, holding your breath until you can get the oil in the crankcase to move through the engine sufficiently to permit compression and hope that the battery didn't freeze... when the engine lights off you immediatly hope that the defroster fan is not frozen and begins blowing air on the windshield so that you are permitted to exhale... Then you extract yourself from said vehicle and begin scraping windows externally and hope that the engine will gain enough heat to remove the frost particles from the windshield... you hope that the layers of cardboard in front of the radiator permit the engine to at least reach body temperature... and that your tailpipe is not completely buried in a snow drift so you aren't overcome by carbon monoxide... If I had owned a Diesel in the Chicago area I would have had a garage, block heater, garage heater and probably an espresso machine... coffee is so passe'. ;) chill.. ;) ah, but I agree with you, the author was most likely unaware of the real pleasures of Diesels in the modern era... I thank the Lord that I don't have to experience the experience in the windy city... I'll take the least number of days of sunshine in the US, the 9 months of rain and green thank you... mold is preferred to frostbite... john Nick.Eckert-at-theaustin.com wrote: > In todays LA Times, Highway 1 section, they feature a cover story on the > E320 CDI, by Jim Mateja of the Chicago Times. > > Unfortunetly, you can tell the writer has never owned a diesel, through his > description of the trials and tribulations of diesel ownership such as > drinking a cup of coffee while waiting for the glow plugs to warm. > > Cheers, > > Nick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:34:17 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] fuel prices driving home last night passed by a texaco listing Diesel for $2.40!!! they're always a little more being right on State Route 9... just 8 miles further south you can get the same juice for $2.29... sounds like a bargain... sounds like I should look into veggie oil... ah, maybe when it hits four bucks a gallon... I'm thinking a bicycle might be a good investment about now... ;) john Eurowerks wrote: > Dang, and I thought that the $1.59 that I was having to pay for diesel was > ridiculous! > :) :) :) > > Kirk A. Gilchrist > EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair > 8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 > eurowerks-at-qx.net / 888-522-0271 toll free ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:36:53 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] More 93 300TD follies I'd get that fluid changed out with whatever the dealer recommends... I had my mechanic training in the late '60's/early '70's and we used to use ATF... I used that in a Jeep and lost the pump... my mechanic scolded me, saying I should only use power steering fluid... I looked at it and said, that looks clear... ;) fill it right or face the repairs... they keep changing the rules on fluids... :) for instance, in transfer cases we used to use gear lube... well, in the aluminum case chain drive units they use ATF... sheesh... have to read the stinkin' manuals all the time... john Edward Pomeroy wrote: > Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > The more I check this beastie the more strange things are found. Is the > Power Steering fluid supposed to be pitch black? It is at the correct > level but the steering feels a bit heavy. This may be just a heavy car > or the fluid is worn out completely. No screeches or other symptoms tho'. > Anyone ant to part with a Chiltons or Haynes that covers the 93 300D > with 2.5 turbo engine? I think I really need one. BTW, is there any > U.S. or generic PS fluid that crosses to the Benz stuff? > > No complaints, 500 miles last weekend at 30 MPG and a heavy foot (Dayton > Hamvention). > > Edward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:44:26 -0700 From: Nick.Eckert-at-theaustin.com Subject: Re: [db] E320CDI in todays LA Times If I had enough clams to buy a E320 CDI, I wouldn't have a garage heater. I couldn't settle for anything less than a garage/shop that had radiant heated floors. Now that's luxury :-)