From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 28 19:49:00 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, May 29 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1474 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] 190D Oil Change Re: [db] 190D Oil Change RE: [db] 617 engine is built like a..... RE: [db] 617 engine is built like a..... [db] that's intact, not intake... RE: [db] 190D Oil Change Re: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:14:05 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: [db] 190D Oil Change Hi Folks, I'm new to the list (just found it today), I'm lucky enough to own an '88 190D 2.0 with 165k on the clock. I have a couple of Q's for the techies ;-) 1)Today I'm attempting my first oil change on it (only had the car a few months), so any hints or tips? I'm used to doing oil/cam-belt changes on my other car (plus turbo/injector/intercooler/diff/clutch installs) so am not a noobie to mechanics. 2)I had a problem recently with the injector closest to the windscreen, the olive type end on it cracked and so I lost about a third of a tank of diesel all over the engine/bonnet/wings. I fixed this with a quick bit of brazing but was wondering if this was a common fault? 3)On starting, the car takes up to 6 "turn-overs" before it fires, is this normal? I've recently replaced the battery (which fixed several other problems including not being able to turn off the engine!) but suspect it might be related to a fuel return line? 4)The Handbrake is next to useless... apart from tightening it through the holes in the hubs, is there something else I should be looking at? Thanks in advance for any info! Regards Steve '88 190D '91 Turbo Eunos Roadster ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:29:51 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] 190D Oil Change At 07:14 AM 5/28/2004, Stephen Rigley wrote: >1)Today I'm attempting my first oil change on it (only had the car a few >months), so any hints or tips? I'm used to doing oil/cam-belt changes on >my other car (plus turbo/injector/intercooler/diff/clutch installs) so am >not a noobie to mechanics. I find that it's easiest to pump the oil out through the dipstick tube. My 190 has a big plastic shield under the engine compartment, I'm not even sure that I can get to the drain plug without removing it. >2)I had a problem recently with the injector closest to the windscreen, >the olive type end on it cracked and so I lost about a third of a tank of >diesel all over the engine/bonnet/wings. I fixed this with a quick bit of >brazing but was wondering if this was a common fault? Yes. That's the first thing I replaced, as a preventative measure. >3) On starting, the car takes up to 6 "turn-overs" before it fires, is >this normal? I've recently replaced the battery (which fixed several other >problems including not being able to turn off the engine!) but suspect it >might be related to a fuel return line? This isn't normal. Unless it's very cold, my engine starts on the first crank. You're going to have to to a full check up. Could be low compression. Could be heavy carbon deposits on the plugs. Or it could be a simple fuel delivery problem. Again, as a preventative measure, replace all fuel filters and hoses. It's also a good idea to replace all the rubber connectors in the vacuum system, at least in the engine compartment. >4)The Handbrake is next to useless... apart from tightening it through the >holes in the hubs, is there something else I should be looking at? Pull the rear disks and examine the shoes. I bet they're toast. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:30:36 -0700 From: "derick amburgey" Subject: RE: [db] 617 engine is built like a..... Yes it looks like I am going to have to be double jointed or use some long extenders. Yes this is the first 617 (turbo) I have owned. I am tearing it down and parting it out. :( I wish I had the space and funds to keep it and fix it up. My only concillation is many other 123 owners will have spares or the repair parts they need. This is not possible I already have another 84 190d on stands right now I am trying to determine what its fate will be. No pictures John, sorry, when I get into ripping I do not clean my hands until everything is buttoned back up again. Plus the carnage may turn a few stomachs and this is a family oriented list. ;) If I think of it though I will snap a picture before I dig into it next time. Derick - -----Original Message----- From: Alec Cordova [mailto:acordova-at-texas.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:43 PM Cc: '[db]' Subject: RE: [db] 617 engine is built like a..... I thought I remembered something about the starter being a bit of a tricky reach and/or fit, but that could be just the turbo OM617, or it could just be a faulty memory on my part. Is this the first OM617 you've played with, Derick? If so, you'll begin to understand why those of us who have lived with them love them so dearly. Especially the turbo version. They're both joyous marvels of beautiful mechanical overengineering that really, really do not want to die. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:30 PM > To: bogus-at-amburgey.us > Cc: '[db]' > Subject: Re: [db] 617 engine is built like a..... > > > On Wed, 26 May 2004, derick amburgey wrote: > >-->Wow, > >-->The more I tear this engine down the more respect I have for it. > >-->Looks like it belongs in something with tracks. > > pictures? :) > > >-->Did a cold compression test today. > >-->Cylinder PSI > >-->#1 280 > >-->#2 290 > >-->#3 285 > >-->#4 290 > >-->#5 275 > >--> > >-->Looks like it is going to be a challenge to get that starter > out anyone have > >-->any tricks? > > why? two bolts... piece 'o cake... or am I forgetting something? :) > > john > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.691 / Virus Database: 452 - Release Date: 5/26/2004 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:18:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] 617 engine is built like a..... kind of wish you hadn't torn the motor apart... I'm looking at a project where I could have bought it intake... :( use rubber gloves or handle your camera with plastic bags over your hands... :) that's what I do. :) john On Fri, 28 May 2004, derick amburgey wrote: >-->Yes it looks like I am going to have to be double jointed or use some long >-->extenders. >--> >-->Yes this is the first 617 (turbo) I have owned. I am tearing it down and >-->parting it out. :( >--> >-->I wish I had the space and funds to keep it and fix it up. My only >-->concillation is many other 123 owners will have spares or the repair parts >-->they need. This is not possible I already have another 84 190d on stands >-->right now I am trying to determine what its fate will be. >--> >-->No pictures John, sorry, when I get into ripping I do not clean my hands >-->until everything is buttoned back up again. Plus the carnage may turn a few >-->stomachs and this is a family oriented list. ;) >--> >-->If I think of it though I will snap a picture before I dig into it next >-->time. >--> >-->Derick >--> >--> >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: Alec Cordova [mailto:acordova-at-texas.net] >-->Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:43 PM >-->Cc: '[db]' >-->Subject: RE: [db] 617 engine is built like a..... >--> >--> >-->I thought I remembered something about the starter being a bit of a tricky >-->reach and/or fit, but that could be just the turbo OM617, or it could just >-->be a faulty memory on my part. >--> >-->Is this the first OM617 you've played with, Derick? If so, you'll begin to >-->understand why those of us who have lived with them love them so dearly. >-->Especially the turbo version. They're both joyous marvels of beautiful >-->mechanical overengineering that really, really do not want to die. >--> >-->Alec >--> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john >-->> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:30 PM >-->> To: bogus-at-amburgey.us >-->> Cc: '[db]' >-->> Subject: Re: [db] 617 engine is built like a..... >-->> >-->> >-->> On Wed, 26 May 2004, derick amburgey wrote: >-->> >-->Wow, >-->> >-->The more I tear this engine down the more respect I have for it. >-->> >-->Looks like it belongs in something with tracks. >-->> >-->> pictures? :) >-->> >-->> >-->Did a cold compression test today. >-->> >-->Cylinder PSI >-->> >-->#1 280 >-->> >-->#2 290 >-->> >-->#3 285 >-->> >-->#4 290 >-->> >-->#5 275 >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Looks like it is going to be a challenge to get that starter >-->> out anyone have >-->> >-->any tricks? >-->> >-->> why? two bolts... piece 'o cake... or am I forgetting something? :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> >-->--- >-->Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >-->Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >-->Version: 6.0.691 / Virus Database: 452 - Release Date: 5/26/2004 >--> >-->--- >-->Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >-->Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >-->Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:24:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] that's intact, not intake... oops... would have wanted the engine INTACT, not intake... of course I did need the intake too... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:36:18 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change 1. You may have to remove the bottom sound/spill shield (4 screws I believe, I left mine off), if equipped or do a change with a topsider device and leave the shield on. I love the filter set-up, two bolts and lift the cover/stem out. The oil filter may or may not come out with the cover. If not, you will notice a small handle to lift it out of there. Have a rag handy for the bottom will drip oil. Always replace the o-ring at the top of the cover. Pay close attention during the re-install as to not pinch it causing a large mess next start up. On the cover will be a stem, there is/are O-ring(s) there too that need to be replaced about once every 2 years and may be obtained thru your vendor. Get OEM filters for they come with a new O-Ring for the cover. 2. Yes the end cap and all the return 3.5mm line need to be replaced periodically. I do mine once every 2 years. I also keep a meter of the stuff in the spare tire area just in case. I have never brazed the tip shut. Of course that injector will be married with that cylinder now on. 3. Not sure about the 1988 on the 1985 the vacuum system controls the fuel cutoff valve to the Injection pump. What your describing did happen on my VW diesel but I have never seen it on my Benz. In the VWs case it was a plugged return line. My 190 had similar symptoms when I had an intermittent glow plug connection. 4. Under the car just in front of the pumpkin is the emergency brake tensioner. Just follow the brake cables to where all three come together. This bolt may have worked loose or the bracket needs replacement. Other than that, it may be time to replace shoes. Good luck Derick - -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Rigley [mailto:srigley-at-o2.ie] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:14 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] 190D Oil Change Hi Folks, I'm new to the list (just found it today), I'm lucky enough to own an '88 190D 2.0 with 165k on the clock. I have a couple of Q's for the techies ;-) 1)Today I'm attempting my first oil change on it (only had the car a few months), so any hints or tips? I'm used to doing oil/cam-belt changes on my other car (plus turbo/injector/intercooler/diff/clutch installs) so am not a noobie to mechanics. 2)I had a problem recently with the injector closest to the windscreen, the olive type end on it cracked and so I lost about a third of a tank of diesel all over the engine/bonnet/wings. I fixed this with a quick bit of brazing but was wondering if this was a common fault? 3)On starting, the car takes up to 6 "turn-overs" before it fires, is this normal? I've recently replaced the battery (which fixed several other problems including not being able to turn off the engine!) but suspect it might be related to a fuel return line? 4)The Handbrake is next to useless... apart from tightening it through the holes in the hubs, is there something else I should be looking at? Thanks in advance for any info! Regards Steve '88 190D '91 Turbo Eunos Roadster - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 01:40:34 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change Thanks again for all the info (Mike & Derick). So, I did the oil change.... lessons learnt... 1) put more newspaper under the oil filter housing than you think is necessary! 2) raise righthand side of car, not left! 3) ALWAYS ... no, no, I mean NEVER EVER try sucking on the oil return tube connected to the top of the oil filter housing! ;-) 4) remove the bucket of empty oil from under the car BEFORE you reverse the car off the ramp! So... man was that oil black! BRUTAL! Funny the way you can put 6 litres in but only about 4 - 5 came out... :( Also renewed air filter, 'tis going like a train now! Derick, I brazed the end of the fuel feed pipe as it had cracked (not the injector itself) where the olive end on the pipe entered the injector. Any idea how much the pipe costs? Or injectors for that matter? BTW, whats the spec for the fuel return lines? Cheers again! Steve <---- 1:40am and full of Guinness! - ----- Original Message ----- From: derick Date: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:36 pm Subject: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change > 1. You may have to remove the bottom sound/spill shield (4 screws > I believe, > I left mine off), if equipped or do a change with a topsider > device and > leave the shield on. I love the filter set-up, two bolts and lift the > cover/stem out. The oil filter may or may not come out with the > cover. If > not, you will notice a small handle to lift it out of there. Have > a rag > handy for the bottom will drip oil. Always replace the o-ring at > the top of > the cover. Pay close attention during the re-install as to not > pinch it > causing a large mess next start up. On the cover will be a stem, there > is/are O-ring(s) there too that need to be replaced about once > every 2 years > and may be obtained thru your vendor. Get OEM filters for they > come with a > new O-Ring for the cover. > > 2. Yes the end cap and all the return 3.5mm line need to be replaced > periodically. I do mine once every 2 years. I also keep a meter of > the stuff > in the spare tire area just in case. I have never brazed the tip > shut. Of > course that injector will be married with that cylinder now on. > > 3. Not sure about the 1988 on the 1985 the vacuum system controls > the fuel > cutoff valve to the Injection pump. What your describing did > happen on my VW > diesel but I have never seen it on my Benz. In the VWs case it was > a plugged > return line. My 190 had similar symptoms when I had an > intermittent glow > plug connection. > > 4. Under the car just in front of the pumpkin is the emergency brake > tensioner. Just follow the brake cables to where all three come > together.This bolt may have worked loose or the bracket needs > replacement. Other than > that, it may be time to replace shoes. > > Good luck > > Derick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Rigley [srigley-at-o2.ie] > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:14 AM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: [db] 190D Oil Change > > > Hi Folks, > I'm new to the list (just found it today), I'm lucky enough to > own an > '88 190D 2.0 with 165k on the clock. I have a couple of Q's for > the techies > ;-) > > 1)Today I'm attempting my first oil change on it (only had the car > a few > months), so any hints or tips? I'm used to doing oil/cam-belt > changes on my > other car (plus turbo/injector/intercooler/diff/clutch installs) > so am not a > noobie to mechanics. > > 2)I had a problem recently with the injector closest to the > windscreen, the > olive type end on it cracked and so I lost about a third of a tank > of diesel > all over the engine/bonnet/wings. I fixed this with a quick bit of > brazingbut was wondering if this was a common fault? > > 3)On starting, the car takes up to 6 "turn-overs" before it fires, > is this > normal? I've recently replaced the battery (which fixed several other > problems including not being able to turn off the engine!) but > suspect it > might be related to a fuel return line? > > 4)The Handbrake is next to useless... apart from tightening it > through the > holes in the hubs, is there something else I should be looking at? > > Thanks in advance for any info! > Regards > Steve > '88 190D > '91 Turbo Eunos Roadster > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004 ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1474 **********************************