From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat May 29 08:34:26 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, May 29 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1475 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change Re: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change [db] 1992 300D Blower motor [db] Steve's christening RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change Re: [db] 1992 300D Blower motor [db] 240D Re: [db] 1992 300D Blower motor Re: [db] 240D RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change RE: [db] 240D (long reply) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:59:06 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change <> Ahh okay... This did happen to me as well on the number 4 cylinder. I think a new metal injection line set me back 20$ if I remember correctly. And yes this would also cause the engine to behave the way you described. Wow your a brave man to seal that up with a braze! I would replace it ASAP. When you get the new one you will notice they changed the design of the flared ends so there is more material there now. I love finding these little improvements. I hope you had a pail of kitty litter to sop up that oil! :) Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 21:04:27 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change At 08:40 PM 5/28/2004, Stephen Rigley wrote: >Thanks again for all the info (Mike & Derick). >So, I did the oil change.... lessons learnt... > >1) put more newspaper under the oil filter housing than you think is >necessary! Actually, I never use newspaper. I have a 1-gallon zip lock bag open and ready. With practice you can get the filter in the bag without spilling a drop. >3) ALWAYS ... no, no, I mean NEVER EVER try sucking on the oil return >tube connected to the top of the oil filter housing! ;-) Are you daft? That stuff is black death. >4) remove the bucket of empty oil from under the car BEFORE you reverse >the car off the ramp! > >So... man was that oil black! BRUTAL! Funny the way you can put 6 litres >in but only about 4 - 5 came out... :( Now that you've done it the hard way, invest a few bucks in a topsider, and try drawing it out through the dipstick tube. Neat, quick, and you get everything out that you put in! I use an Oil Boy: http://tinyurl.com/2ovag The only thing I don't like is that you have to empty the container twice each time. Comes with a black tube for oil, and a red tube for transmission fluid (which is your next chore). To keep things neat between changes, I soldered caps on a couple of lengths of copper pipe, and hung them upright on the wall of the garage. When the tubes aren't in use, they go into their respective pipe scabbards. When you get the routine down, I expect you to report that you can change that goop in your business clothes without getting dirty. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 21:07:39 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change Ahhh...I misunderstood...I thought the hose had broken. I've never had one of the feed pipes break. But the rubber goes, thanks to lots of heat and pressure. Mike Frank At 08:59 PM 5/28/2004, derick wrote: ><end of the fuel feed pipe as it had cracked (not the injector itself) where >the olive end on the pipe entered the injector. Any idea how much the pipe >costs? Or injectors for that matter? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 21:17:14 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change > Now that you've done it the hard way, invest a few bucks in a > topsider, and > try drawing it out through the dipstick tube. Neat, quick, and you get > everything out that you put in! I use an Oil Boy: http://tinyurl.com/2ovag > > The only thing I don't like is that you have to empty the container twice > each time. Comes with a black tube for oil, and a red tube for > transmission > fluid (which is your next chore). To keep things neat between changes, I > soldered caps on a couple of lengths of copper pipe, and hung > them upright > on the wall of the garage. When the tubes aren't in use, they go > into their > respective pipe scabbards. When you get the routine down, I expect you to > report that you can change that goop in your business clothes without > getting dirty. > > Mike Frank > Heed this man. He knows of what he speaks. TopSiders are serious cool. I got my real TopSider brand BigBoy at West Marine, a chain of boating stores, for something like 50 bucks. It also came in handy to change the oil in my lawn mower. And remember that new motor oil will turn that black within days thanks to the byproducts of diesel combustion. Better in the oil and filter than turning into crust somewhere in the motor, so do NOT wait for every other oil change to change the filter. Change them every time with top quality parts. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 179K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:24:48 -0400 From: "Cool" Subject: [db] 1992 300D Blower motor I'm a bit stumped by this one. The Blower motor in my w124 was seized and needed brush replacement. I pulled it out today, took it apart, cleaned the shaft, lubed the bearings, replaced the brushes - it bench tested ok. I dropped it back in the car, hooked the wires up, and decided to test before buttoning everything up - fan doesn't work. I put a tester on the controller (located just below the blower motor) and get a 12v feed and a 9v out. All seems well. But still no fan. When you hook the fan up and test the leads there is a voltage drop to zero. So under load, it cuts out. Fuse strip is OK. So, the question is this: Is it the motor controller or the dash climate control that is fried? Both are expensive and I would quite frankly rather not replace either, but what do you think? Thanks in advance - Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 03:16:39 GMT From: "mjmason-at-juno.com" Subject: [db] Steve's christening Hmmmm.... (borrowed shamelessly from Robert) Maybe it's 'cuz homebrewing is another hobby of mine that I've found "full of Guinness" to be an interesting way to do lots of things, but I wouldn't have pegged auto mechanics to be one...! (Beck's, maybe? Or a nice Pilsner Urquell?) Although, when you look at some of the setups my friends have cooked up at home, they're not all that dissimilar in appearance from some engines I've seen... Matt in IL ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:03:12 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change does it look like this: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Johns-Diesels/190D/geyser-4.jpg it was a split in the metal line... I replaced it... john On Fri, 28 May 2004, Mike Frank wrote: >-->Ahhh...I misunderstood...I thought the hose had broken. I've never had one >-->of the feed pipes break. But the rubber goes, thanks to lots of heat and >-->pressure. >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> >-->At 08:59 PM 5/28/2004, derick wrote: >-->><-->>end of the fuel feed pipe as it had cracked (not the injector itself) where >-->>the olive end on the pipe entered the injector. Any idea how much the pipe >-->>costs? Or injectors for that matter? >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:09:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 1992 300D Blower motor how'd you bench test the fan? did it spin up with power? fuse strip? john On Fri, 28 May 2004, Cool wrote: >-->I'm a bit stumped by this one. The Blower motor in my w124 was seized and >-->needed brush replacement. I pulled it out today, took it apart, cleaned the >-->shaft, lubed the bearings, replaced the brushes - it bench tested ok. I >-->dropped it back in the car, hooked the wires up, and decided to test before >-->buttoning everything up - fan doesn't work. >--> >-->I put a tester on the controller (located just below the blower motor) and >-->get a 12v feed and a 9v out. All seems well. But still no fan. When you >-->hook the fan up and test the leads there is a voltage drop to zero. So >-->under load, it cuts out. Fuse strip is OK. >--> >-->So, the question is this: Is it the motor controller or the dash climate >-->control that is fried? Both are expensive and I would quite frankly rather >-->not replace either, but what do you think? >--> >--> >--> >-->Thanks in advance - >-->Fred >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:25:33 -0400 From: Jason R Bassett Subject: [db] 240D I just brought home a 1981 240D. This is a new experience for me; first Diesel, first Benz. So now I have a curiosity or 30. 1. The 190D was talking about having a really weird oil filter^Wsure didn't sound like spin-on to me! Ummm.....is the 240D that weird as well? 2. I don't know when the timing chain has been replaced last or the valves adjusted, so I need to at least check these. How hard is that? I don't think they're bad, though, because it starts easily and readily (1 or 2 "cranks"), although it does have noticeably more power once it warms up. 3. Where are the fuses on the thing? I think I killed one by shorting a wire for a light 8^( 4. I live in the mountains. Once it warms up, with the pedal to the floor it will barely maintain speed up some of the mountains. The speed limit is 55, and (before it warmed up) when it was dropping below 45 I manually backed it down to 3rd (on the 4 speed automatic.) This allowed it to fairly handily wind right back up to 55, even uphill, but it seemed wound up pretty tight at 55 in 3rd. (There's no tach on this one.) Can I do that without hurting it, or am I asking for trouble to wind it up that much in 3rd? How fast would the engine be running anyhow? I guess it will be OK^Wthis hi-revver diesel stuff just takes a bit of getting used to! 5. The ride is lovely^Wit feels heavy, but it's a good, controlled kind of heavy. My '87 Mercury Sable's suspension is shot, and it feels very weird, squirmy heavy. (I definitely feel upgraded. 8^) The steering is not factory-tight, but it is not sloppy by any stretch of the imagination. Should I check anything, or wait for something weird to happen? 6. You all are great! Thanks for thinking of me! Jason ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:41:41 -0700 From: "junot" Subject: Re: [db] 1992 300D Blower motor greetings fred ... i think i'd find a nice place for an on-off switch ... junot > > On Fri, 28 May 2004, Cool wrote: > > >-->I'm a bit stumped by this one. The Blower motor in my w124 was seized and > >-->needed brush replacement. I pulled it out today, took it apart, cleaned the > >-->shaft, lubed the bearings, replaced the brushes - it bench tested ok. I > >-->dropped it back in the car, hooked the wires up, and decided to test before > >-->buttoning everything up - fan doesn't work. > >--> > >-->I put a tester on the controller (located just below the blower motor) and > >-->get a 12v feed and a 9v out. All seems well. But still no fan. When you > >-->hook the fan up and test the leads there is a voltage drop to zero. So > >-->under load, it cuts out. Fuse strip is OK. > >--> > >-->So, the question is this: Is it the motor controller or the dash climate > >-->control that is fried? Both are expensive and I would quite frankly rather > >-->not replace either, but what do you think? > >--> > >--> > >--> > >-->Thanks in advance - > >-->Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:30:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 240D regular speed demon... ;) can't see where you'd hurt it winding it up... mechanical limit/governer in the pump... downshifting at too high of a speed could over rev it, but highly unlikely you'll over rev it going the other way. :) john On Fri, 28 May 2004, Jason R Bassett wrote: >-->I just brought home a 1981 240D. This is a new experience for me; first >-->Diesel, first Benz. So now I have a curiosity or 30. >--> >-->1. The 190D was talking about having a really weird oil filter^Wsure >-->didn't sound like spin-on to me! Ummm.....is the 240D that weird as well? >--> >-->2. I don't know when the timing chain has been replaced last or the >-->valves adjusted, so I need to at least check these. How hard is that? I >-->don't think they're bad, though, because it starts easily and readily (1 >-->or 2 "cranks"), although it does have noticeably more power once it warms >-->up. >--> >-->3. Where are the fuses on the thing? I think I killed one by shorting a >-->wire for a light 8^( >--> >-->4. I live in the mountains. Once it warms up, with the pedal to the floor >-->it will barely maintain speed up some of the mountains. The speed limit >-->is 55, and (before it warmed up) when it was dropping below 45 I manually >-->backed it down to 3rd (on the 4 speed automatic.) This allowed it to >-->fairly handily wind right back up to 55, even uphill, but it seemed wound >-->up pretty tight at 55 in 3rd. (There's no tach on this one.) Can I do >-->that without hurting it, or am I asking for trouble to wind it up that >-->much in 3rd? How fast would the engine be running anyhow? I guess it will >-->be OK^Wthis hi-revver diesel stuff just takes a bit of getting used to! >--> >-->5. The ride is lovely^Wit feels heavy, but it's a good, controlled kind of >-->heavy. My '87 Mercury Sable's suspension is shot, and it feels very >-->weird, squirmy heavy. (I definitely feel upgraded. 8^) The steering is >-->not factory-tight, but it is not sloppy by any stretch of the >-->imagination. Should I check anything, or wait for something weird to >-->happen? >--> >-->6. You all are great! Thanks for thinking of me! >--> >-->Jason >--> >-->________________________________________________________________ >-->The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >-->Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >-->Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 07:47:58 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change That photo triggers a question for me. That yellowed plastic thing that's part of your accelerator linkage....on my car, it triggers a pair of switches when the throttle is full open. Does anyone know what these switches do? I can't find them on the wiring diagram (not surprised). Mike Frank At 11:03 PM 5/28/2004, john wrote: >does it look like this: > >http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Johns-Diesels/190D/geyser-4.jpg >it was a split in the metal line... I replaced it... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:09:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: RE: [db] 190D Oil Change that was on the 190d that scott has... '85. maybe he can look and see... john On Sat, 29 May 2004, Mike Frank wrote: >-->That photo triggers a question for me. That yellowed plastic thing that's >-->part of your accelerator linkage....on my car, it triggers a pair of >-->switches when the throttle is full open. Does anyone know what these >-->switches do? I can't find them on the wiring diagram (not surprised). >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> >--> >-->At 11:03 PM 5/28/2004, john wrote: >--> >-->>does it look like this: >-->> >-->>http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Johns-Diesels/190D/geyser-4.jpg >-->>it was a split in the metal line... I replaced it... >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:35:24 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] 240D (long reply) Congratulations! Other than the limited power (which teaches you patience and planning), you will fall in love with this car. It has such a wonderful personality. Every subsystem has a consistent feel, and they all behave like a loyal dog: even if they can't accomplish it, they will wholeheartedly attempt anything you ask. The oil filter is fairly straightforward. You replace a big insert and an O-ring inside a metal canister at the back of the engine. Check your hood hinges to see how to open the hood a full 90 degrees for easy access to the filter housing, and be sure to always use top quality (preferably OEM Mann or Hengst) filters. While you're at it, be sure to use a diesel-rated oil to carry all the diesel combustion byproducts. These have an API rating of C-something (for "Compression") in addition to the more common S-something (for "Spark") ratings. Synthetics are fine, and two favorite conventionals are Shell Rotella T and Chevron Delo 400. Valves are fairly easy to adjust as long as you have nice wrenches. You may need an offset wrench for easiest work. Parts consist of a new valve cover gasket. Timing chain stretch can be readily measured while the valve cover is off. If it's not stretched more than about 5 degrees, you probably don't need to bother replacing it. I would suggest checking the valve clearance (and the chain) fairly soon. In current weather, the motor should start easily even if valves are a little off. Power would be diminished, though, and you've already discovered that you don't want to waste any of that. ;-) Fuses are under the hood, on the firewall near the brake booster. Unscrew the two nicely knurled thumbwheels on the rectangular black plastic thing, and pull it off. If it hasn't been opened in a while, the gasket may stick a little, and it takes just a little contortion to extricate the cover from that area. Replacing all the fuses and cleaning all the holders would be a good idea, and it's cheap.\ Even with no tach, you will see several little dots within the numbers on the speedometer. One dot indicates the approximate maximum speed in first gear, two dots for 2nd gear max, etc. Redline is somewhere around 4500 rpm, and this motor lives happiest when you actually do wind it up regularly. Especially once you have checked timing chain stretch, feel completely free to use every last bit of oomph that the motor can produce. It helps keep fuel and air pathways clean of gunk buildup. You can easily adjust some slack out of the steering box. You MUST leave about one inch of play, measured at the rim of the steering wheel with the wheels straight ahead. If you take too much play out, the steering can bind up when turning. Under the hood, follow the steering column to find the steering box. There is a nut thingy on top. Loosen the locknut, then turn COUNTER-clockwise to tighten up the steering. Try maybe a quarter or half turn at a time. Don't forget to retighten the locknut. Any remaining slop is just rubber parts in the system that have worn down. Oh, you may also consider replacing the steering shock. It's clearly visible from under the car, fairly easy to replace, and I think it's only in the 20 to 30 dollar price range. It will restore a nice buttery feel to the steering if your current one is old. Welcome to our little group. Just be warned. Once you start to recognize and appreciate the amazing engineering of these cars, you'll have a very hard time going back to anything else. ;-) Regards, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 170K > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jason R Bassett > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:26 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: [db] 240D > > > I just brought home a 1981 240D. This is a new experience for me; first > Diesel, first Benz. So now I have a curiosity or 30. > > 1. The 190D was talking about having a really weird oil filter^Wsure > didn't sound like spin-on to me! Ummm.....is the 240D that weird as well? > > 2. I don't know when the timing chain has been replaced last or the > valves adjusted, so I need to at least check these. How hard is that? I > don't think they're bad, though, because it starts easily and readily (1 > or 2 "cranks"), although it does have noticeably more power once it warms > up. > > 3. Where are the fuses on the thing? I think I killed one by shorting a > wire for a light 8^( > > 4. I live in the mountains. Once it warms up, with the pedal to the floor > it will barely maintain speed up some of the mountains. The speed limit > is 55, and (before it warmed up) when it was dropping below 45 I manually > backed it down to 3rd (on the 4 speed automatic.) This allowed it to > fairly handily wind right back up to 55, even uphill, but it seemed wound > up pretty tight at 55 in 3rd. (There's no tach on this one.) Can I do > that without hurting it, or am I asking for trouble to wind it up that > much in 3rd? How fast would the engine be running anyhow? I guess it will > be OK^Wthis hi-revver diesel stuff just takes a bit of getting used to! > > 5. The ride is lovely^Wit feels heavy, but it's a good, controlled kind of > heavy. My '87 Mercury Sable's suspension is shot, and it feels very > weird, squirmy heavy. (I definitely feel upgraded. 8^) The steering is > not factory-tight, but it is not sloppy by any stretch of the > imagination. Should I check anything, or wait for something weird to > happen? > > 6. You all are great! Thanks for thinking of me! > > Jason ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1475 **********************************