From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jul 31 12:47:25 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, July 31 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1515 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] ftc on fuel saving devices [db] Oil leak from head [db] must have been a Diesel driver... Re: [db] Oil leak from head Re: [db] Oil leak from head Re: [db] Oil leak from head [db] 190D - fuel contamination RE: [db] 190D - fuel contamination Re: [db] Oil leak from head [db] strike three... KJ... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:53:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] ftc on fuel saving devices http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.htm bottom line: Although there are practical steps you can take to increase gas mileage, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) warns you to be wary of any gas-saving claims for automotive devices or oil and gas additives. Even for the few gas-saving products that have been found to work, the savings have been small. "Gas-Saving" Advertising Claims Be skeptical of the following kinds of advertising claims. :) john ~ ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:31:09 -0500 From: "Chuck Galloway" Subject: [db] Oil leak from head Before you go retorque the head bolts, not all head bolts can be retorqued. Some head bolts are stretch bolts that are torqued to a certain value then turned another 90 degrees. You can replace them but not retorque them - they just aren't designed for it. Check the engine manual for your car. M103 engines leak oil at the rear of the head gasket about every 60k miles and some others are known for leaking oil as well. When your tolerance of the leak reaches the limit - replace the head gasket. They generally don't leak much, just enough to be annoying. Chuck Galloway '87 300SDL '92 300E _________________________________________________________________ Don^Rt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:22:41 -0700 From: john meister Subject: [db] must have been a Diesel driver... I'd heard of Americans being ticketed in Germany for impeding the flow of traffic in similar cases... :) Never met anyone who had, but it made for great conversation over there... ;) john > Offbeat News Friday, July 30, 2004 Driver Beaten Up for Observing Speed Limit > > > BERLIN (Reuters) - A German truck driver beat up a motorist he believed was > driving too slowly in a case of 'road rage' in a country famous for having no > limits on stretches of its motorways. > > The trucker got in a fight with a car driver who had been slowing him down by > observing a 30 km-an-hour (18 mph) speed limit in a built-up area. > > Police in the western town of Bochum said the truck driver told them he felt > provoked by the motorist "because he was actually driving 30 kph in a 30 kph > area." The trucker faces an investigation and may lose his driving license. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:56:11 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Oil leak from head Thanks Chuck: You have almost confirmed verbatim what my local non-dealer mechanic stated. I was not aware of the bolt torque system used by MB but that is indeed true. They pre-tension to about 80 ft lb then turn 90 degrees (twice!?) which stretches the bolt to some acceptable point. How this is accurate to the degree necessary is a mystery. The leak is indeed just annoying at this point, rear and front right side. I am going to live with it as long as possible, when it drives me nuts I will replace the gasket or the whole engine. I am hatching s scheme to swap some stuff for a Ssang Yong 2.5L MB T-diesel copy from Korea. It is the exact same engine. I am only hoping they kept all the electrical and bolt points the same so it can be a painless swap. BTW the engine is sitting in Uruguay, the second hurdle is how to get it to Michigan. Can't wait to see the look on their faces at the UAL counter next visit, they do allow two pieces of "luggage" per passenger. < g r i n> Chuck Galloway wrote: > Before you go retorque the head bolts, not all head bolts can be > retorqued. > Some head bolts are stretch bolts that are torqued to a certain value > then > turned another 90 degrees. You can replace them but not retorque them - > they just aren't designed for it. Check the engine manual for your car. > M103 engines leak oil at the rear of the head gasket about every 60k > miles > and some others are known for leaking oil as well. When your > tolerance of > the leak reaches the limit - replace the head gasket. They generally > don't > leak much, just enough to be annoying. > > Chuck Galloway > '87 300SDL > '92 300E > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don^Rt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:32:41 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Oil leak from head At 05:56 PM 7/30/2004 , Edward Pomeroy wrote: >I am hatching s scheme to swap some stuff for a Ssang Yong 2.5L MB >T-diesel copy from Korea. It is the exact same engine. I would not count on anything made in Korea to be "the exact same" as something made in Germany. I have read many articles about the quality control and business practice problems with Korean automotive manufacturing companies. Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:49:02 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Oil leak from head tell me more about this 2.5L copy... I'm seriously thinking of finding a wrecked 124 with either the 2.5L or the 3.0L and adapting the engine to a Jeep Aisin Warner Automatic, or a World Class T-5. My '91 2.5L TD would have enough giddyup to move a full size jeep around... maybe not as spritely as it does in the 124, but enough for me. :) john Edward Pomeroy wrote: > Thanks Chuck: > > You have almost confirmed verbatim what my local non-dealer mechanic > stated. I was not aware of the bolt torque system used by MB but that is > indeed true. They pre-tension to about 80 ft lb then turn 90 degrees > (twice!?) which stretches the bolt to some acceptable point. How this > is accurate to the degree necessary is a mystery. > The leak is indeed just annoying at this point, rear and front right > side. I am going to live with it as long as possible, when it drives me > nuts I will replace the gasket or the whole engine. > > I am hatching s scheme to swap some stuff for a Ssang Yong 2.5L MB > T-diesel copy from Korea. It is the exact same engine. I am only hoping > they kept all the electrical and bolt points the same so it can be a > painless swap. BTW the engine is sitting in Uruguay, the second hurdle > is how to get it to Michigan. Can't wait to see the look on their faces > at the UAL counter next visit, they do allow two pieces of "luggage" per > passenger. > > < g r i n> > > Chuck Galloway wrote: > >> Before you go retorque the head bolts, not all head bolts can be >> retorqued. >> Some head bolts are stretch bolts that are torqued to a certain value >> then >> turned another 90 degrees. You can replace them but not retorque them - >> they just aren't designed for it. Check the engine manual for your car. >> M103 engines leak oil at the rear of the head gasket about every 60k >> miles >> and some others are known for leaking oil as well. When your >> tolerance of >> the leak reaches the limit - replace the head gasket. They generally >> don't >> leak much, just enough to be annoying. >> >> Chuck Galloway >> '87 300SDL >> '92 300E >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Don^Rt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:30:21 -0400 From: "wmpless" Subject: [db] 190D - fuel contamination Hello, after having had a 190D 2.2 for 12 years I bought a 190D 2,5 non turbo with 50.000 miles during the winter in Florida. On my home the car stopped running several times as the 2 fuel filters clogged up with dark brown soft mud.These filters were not readily available and it therefore became quite an adventure trip. As the car had been sitting for an extended period in Florida something - - algae - was growing in the tank. Draining the tank helped a bit but for quite some time the filters were still clogging up especially after I added Diesel Doctor, a biocide.Although I had bought the other 190D in California I did not encounter fuel contamination. Can only recommend that in your diesel powered cars you carry a couple in-line filters and one primary fuel filter and the necessary tools. The in -line filter is hidden under the air filter housing and a bit hard to reach. I knew that boaters could encounter this problem but was not really familiar with this.living the cooler North. Hope, I am not repeating advice already given before. Regards ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:35:49 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] 190D - fuel contamination Wmpless, Good advice! Not just algae but also contaminated fuel can happen. Finding filters that fit--50 miles from nowhere can be quite a challenge. Spare filters take little storage space, may save considerable time and trouble. Thanks, Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of wmpless Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 10:30 PM To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: [db] 190D - fuel contamination Hello, after having had a 190D 2.2 for 12 years I bought a 190D 2,5 non turbo with 50.000 miles during the winter in Florida. On my home the car stopped running several times as the 2 fuel filters clogged up with dark brown soft mud.These filters were not readily available and it therefore became quite an adventure trip. As the car had been sitting for an extended period in Florida something - - algae - was growing in the tank. Draining the tank helped a bit but for quite some time the filters were still clogging up especially after I added Diesel Doctor, a biocide.Although I had bought the other 190D in California I did not encounter fuel contamination. Can only recommend that in your diesel powered cars you carry a couple in-line filters and one primary fuel filter and the necessary tools. The in -line filter is hidden under the air filter housing and a bit hard to reach. I knew that boaters could encounter this problem but was not really familiar with this.living the cooler North. Hope, I am not repeating advice already given before. Regards ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 06:52:23 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Oil leak from head John, I was travelling on business down in South America and my contacts there are the dealers for Ssang Yong motors. This Korean company took the license to make the 2.5 L diesel engine from MB. They now make a 2.7 L common rail injection diesel engine. I am trying to locate a "new" in a crate 2.5 through my contacts down there or to buy a used one that has very low mileage. I looked at one when I was visiting and it looks bolt for bolt identical to what in in my 300D T2.5. I just started this process, when I get prices and other data I will be happy to post the results should they occur. My hope is that the Korean version is of almost equal quality (they bought hand-me-down tooling from the Germans) and the price much lower. Unfortunately they have zero presence in N America. Cheers Edward http://www.4reference.net/encyclopedias/wikipedia/Ssang_Yong.html http://www.autozine.nl/text/288.html http://www.smotor.com/services/service.jsp john meister wrote: > tell me more about this 2.5L copy... I'm seriously thinking > of finding a wrecked 124 with either the 2.5L or the 3.0L and > adapting the engine to a Jeep Aisin Warner Automatic, or > a World Class T-5. My '91 2.5L TD would have enough > giddyup to move a full size jeep around... maybe not > as spritely as it does in the 124, but enough for me. :) > > john > > Edward Pomeroy wrote: > >> Thanks Chuck: >> >> You have almost confirmed verbatim what my local non-dealer mechanic >> stated. I was not aware of the bolt torque system used by MB but that >> is indeed true. They pre-tension to about 80 ft lb then turn 90 >> degrees (twice!?) which stretches the bolt to some acceptable point. >> How this is accurate to the degree necessary is a mystery. The leak >> is indeed just annoying at this point, rear and front right side. I >> am going to live with it as long as possible, when it drives me nuts >> I will replace the gasket or the whole engine. >> >> I am hatching s scheme to swap some stuff for a Ssang Yong 2.5L MB >> T-diesel copy from Korea. It is the exact same engine. I am only >> hoping they kept all the electrical and bolt points the same so it >> can be a painless swap. BTW the engine is sitting in Uruguay, the >> second hurdle is how to get it to Michigan. Can't wait to see the >> look on their faces at the UAL counter next visit, they do allow two >> pieces of "luggage" per passenger. >> >> < g r i n> >> >> Chuck Galloway wrote: >> >>> Before you go retorque the head bolts, not all head bolts can be >>> retorqued. >>> Some head bolts are stretch bolts that are torqued to a certain >>> value then >>> turned another 90 degrees. You can replace them but not retorque >>> them - >>> they just aren't designed for it. Check the engine manual for your >>> car. >>> M103 engines leak oil at the rear of the head gasket about every 60k >>> miles >>> and some others are known for leaking oil as well. When your >>> tolerance of >>> the leak reaches the limit - replace the head gasket. They >>> generally don't >>> leak much, just enough to be annoying. >>> >>> Chuck Galloway >>> '87 300SDL >>> '92 300E >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Don^Rt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >>> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:08:28 -0700 From: john meister Subject: [db] strike three... KJ... well... the KJ (liberty) officially got it's "third strike" this morning... was going to rent one to drive over to Spokane to teach a UNIX class instead of driving my '91 300d.... the idea was to give it a road trip test in preparation for the Diesel model coming out this fall... negotiated a good rate and everything... would have worked out nicely... but went to pick it up at the rental place... had the wife sit in it before we signed up for it... seat didn't work for my wife... the base was too short and uncomfortable... ;( It was the base unit, I think the limited have nicer seats, but my wife is totally spoiled by the WJ seats. Glad I found a nice set of limited WJ seats for my '83 J10 stepside... only problem is will have to extend the cab to make 'em fit. ;) (not a problem, undergoing frame off resto right now) So, the KJ struck out totally: 1) strike one for the KJ is the looks - totally toon town, butt ugly... goofy... 2) strike two - size, too small, cargo area really "vertical" and of course 3) strike three yer out... seats. I believe they ride quieter and nicer then the WJ, but their handling is far inferior to the XJ or WJ. And they're gutless with that 3.7. Again I lament the demise of the XJ model... The ONLY reason I was considering the toon town Jeep was the Diesel option... :( I want a Diesel powered Jeep again... Had an '85 XJ with that 2.1 L Turbo Diesel, didn't like the 5 speed or the cost of parts for the French engine... :( If Jeep sold their Diesel version of the WJ it would be a no-brainer. I'd have a car payment... Guess I will take a look at the VW Toureg. BTW, got to look under the hood of a FedEx Freightliner Sprinter today... Mercedes CDI engine... looks like the same one going into the new 320's... sweet motor, gobs of power and economy... If I had $65,000 burning a hole in my pocket I do know how I'd releive THAT pain... ;) rofl... Guess I'll wait about 10 years or so and start looking for a used one... if you have one, take good care of it for me. ;) So my Diesel Jeep options are to find a Diesel to mate to an Aisin Warner 30-80LE or find an adapter... thinking either a 3.0L or a 2.5L TD out of a Mercedes 124/201/126 chassis. Will put it in the '87 XJ or possibly my '83 J10. Currently setting up the '83 J10 stepside for a '96 XJ HO 4.0L engine/trans. later, dieseljohn ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1515 **********************************