From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Aug 2 19:41:36 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, August 3 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1517 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 190D engine problem [db] More options from Daimler-Chrysler [db] Head bolts [db] Oil/Compression/filter/chronicles of ............? Re: [db] Head bolts Re: [db] Oil/Compression/filter/chronicles of ............? RE: [db] Oil/Compression/filter/chronicles of ............? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 16:26:31 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] 190D engine problem So... we went to collect the car (turned out to be 114 euros in total, 40 parts and labour the rest for the flatbed...). We left after paying the bill, got 300 yards away... car stops again... so limp back to the garage, place is closed! We leave the car there and put the keys through the letter box. Get a call in the morning asking what the problem was..."ehhh... you didn't fix it", talk to them later that evening again "we think its the injector pump, it'll be 700 euros to recondition plus labour", I say "so its definatley the pump and not clogged filters or anything?" "no no I think he checked that".... I ring a friend who sorts me out with a flatbed and has it collected and brought to another garage close to home (this guy does some rallying and grass racing so has a passion for engines). He changes the fuel filter and put a copper pipe in to replace the inline filter (he had none to hand and it was a bank holiday weekend) which is VERY well hidden under the air box! I didn't even know there was one under there! Now it runs like a champ again! We used it to drive to the airport in Rossaveel (spl?) to get a plane out to the Aran Islands for the weekend. Get this.. I meet a guy in a bar on the islands from Ennis who knows the garage where the car was initally... "THEM? Jeasaz... ye didn't buy a car of them did ye? Awful crowd of halfwits".... if I'd known that.... Annnyways... car is back, filters changed and I've AA informed not to recommend them again! End of another dilemma :-) Thanks again to all those who suggested the filters etc etc Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: john Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 5:26 pm Subject: Re: [db] 190D engine problem > hey, be happy to go and retrieve it... just send the plane > tickets to get me over there... shoot, I'll even gas it up > and wash it when we're done... ;) oh, did I mention I need > a co-pilot? So make that two tickets... ;) > > john > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Stephen Rigley wrote: > >-->Thanks for all the replies folks! I'll certainly invest in > some biocide > >-->(I have NEVER heard of this problem before in diesels or even > seen it > >-->discussed.... mad eh?) > >--> > >-->Just rang the garage, the car is ready (!) and the bill is 40 > >-->euros(!!).... nice one! > >--> > >-->Ah... any excuse for a 2 hour drive top-down, off with the MX- > 5 to > >-->collect now ;-) > >--> > >-->Steve > >--> > >-->----- Original Message ----- > >--> > >-->From: john > >--> > >-->Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 5:19 pm > >--> > >-->Subject: Re: [db] 190D engine problem > >--> > >-->> I'd say replace the filters and return lines with benz parts, > >-->> charge the battery and get it running. Then test the injectors > >-->> one by one to see if any are bad. > >-->> > >-->> doesn't sound serious, sounds like a fuel/injector problem, > >-->> but not a bad injector injector problem.... clogged lines, etc. > >-->> > >-->> john > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Stephen Rigley wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >-->So... its one of those problems where the engine won't start > >-->> (the worst > >-->> >-->kind). Last night my nearest and dearest took our '88 > 190D (4 > >-->> cylinder)>-->down to Cork for a funeral (2 and a half hour > drive),>-->> no problems, a > >-->> >-->little sluggish at times but always perked back up. This > >-->> morning she was > >-->> >-->driving back and it dies... won't restart... I told her to > >-->> leave it a min > >-->> >-->and try again... it starts... the stops again 10 miles > on ... > >-->> this goes > >-->> >-->on for about 60 miles then it dies. So, I hop in the mx- > 5 and > >-->> head down > >-->> >-->to her and find that the plug on the rearmost return > line has > >-->> >-->disintegrated and comes off in my hand. I replace it > with a > >-->> piece of > >-->> >-->tubing with a bolt stuck in the end to plug the line, car > >-->> starts, we set > >-->> >-->off... get one mile and it dies again... of course the > battery>-->> has taken > >-->> >-->a beating from all the cranking so that starts to go too... > >-->> time for a > >-->> >-->flatbed to the garage where it is at currently. > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->So... whatcha think? Any ideas on this? Is it possible > its the > >-->> lift pump? > >-->> >-->Do these tend to go? > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Any help appreciated! > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Steve > >-->> >--> > >-->> > >-->> ---- > >-->> > >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >-->> ------ > >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >-->> ------ > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:26:29 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: [db] More options from Daimler-Chrysler Not only the Jeep Liberty but also a Dodge Dakota pickup and possibly a Grand Cherokee! Wake up John!! ;) Jim/ http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_dakota_launch_ahead/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:04:06 -0700 From: "DerickAA" Subject: [db] Head bolts Just catching up on my backlog... I have read the concern about headbolts and if new ones are required. In the 601.xxx engine the head bolts have specifications that determine if the bolts are to be replaced. During the rebuilds of the two 601engines I have done the bolts were all on the lower end of the specification chart. Had this been any other manufacture I would have replaced them any how. Again I was amazed at the quality of the fastener, it equals or exceeds the quality of the raceware brand fasteners I bought for my VW Diesel Truck. I have reused all of them, torque to the spec and pattern. Then angle torque for the final sequence. It is interesting that you must wait (I think it was 10 min) between each one of the angle torque procedures. Anyhow it is 40,000 miles later and so far no oil leaks, water or any kind of seepage. I do not see any problems reusing the bolts unless the manual for your car says not too. Just my humble opinion. Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 8/2/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:32:38 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: [db] Oil/Compression/filter/chronicles of ............? ............? is her name. I have called her "Katie" in the past, but this proved to be offensive to my fiancee. Don't remember what I was supposed to call her now. Anyhow, I have some questions. As usual, though I have been gone for some time (no access at my house.) Oil. She leaks it (and probably also burns some, but you can never prove it with a diesel.) Do I need to change it still, or just change the filter and keep pouring the Delo in? I suppose I should, just less often, right? She loses about a quart every 300 miles or so, which makes me think that with that much oil flowing through, I should be able to let the change intervals get quite long. Maybe. Filter. Where can I get "the good one"? I have an STP in it now, and am not worried about it, but I want the motor to last, so I want to "get the good stuff." As long as it isn't enough for a down payment on a new car. :-) Compression. Now here's why I want to "get the good stuff." I ran the motor with the crankcase vent disconnected and was horrified to realize just how much blowby I have. I must have low compression on at least one cylinder (I can feel it at an idle with the auto tranny in gear) and probably none of them are quite right. I have no idea how much use the car has seen (odo is semi-kaput) or what care it has had (seemed to have gasser oil in it when I bought it) but I know they are tough, and with some pampering now, I should be able to keep it going for a long time still.........please tell me I'm right. Otherwise, she will go until she won't go anymore and then probably become a parts car. (There are some body issues from a deer accident that make it iffy as to whether she would warrant a new engine. Unless of course, I could get a good used one from a wrecked car. The one that got rear-ended by the drunk femme comes to mind.....) Anyhow, I would like feedback. As far as I can tell, nothing is coming loose inside, so I am not too worried.....but this Michigan winter could make starting interesting. Thankfully, it has the block heater. Chronicles.....they are weird and too long to tell now I guess.....time is up. Have fun, and I should be able to get back into this thing soon; I have a cable coming so I can do this through my cel-fone. Hee hee. Always wanted that anyhow..... Bye for now y'all Jason '81 240D guessing ~325K MI (and still she rolls on....) ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:16:41 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Head bolts Thanks Derick: I spent part of last evening reading the MB manual (the UK version) that covers the 300D 2.5 Turbo. Sure enough there is a specification for bolt length, so long as they are under the limit, they can be re-used. I am biding my time and placing old masonite under the front of the engine when parking, I live in the salt belt and will take the Benz off the road come December (or November or October ..... depends), then I can tackle the head removal and new gaskets without time pressure (only frozen fingers). Edward DerickAA wrote: >Just catching up on my backlog... > >I have read the concern about headbolts and if new ones are required. > >In the 601.xxx engine the head bolts have specifications that determine if the >bolts are to be replaced. > >During the rebuilds of the two 601engines I have done the bolts were all on >the lower end of the specification chart. > >Had this been any other manufacture I would have replaced them any how. > >Again I was amazed at the quality of the fastener, it equals or exceeds the >quality of the raceware brand fasteners I bought for my VW Diesel Truck. > >I have reused all of them, torque to the spec and pattern. Then angle torque >for the final sequence. > >It is interesting that you must wait (I think it was 10 min) between each one >of the angle torque procedures. > >Anyhow it is 40,000 miles later and so far no oil leaks, water or any kind of >seepage. > >I do not see any problems reusing the bolts unless the manual for your car >says not too. > >Just my humble opinion. > > >Derick > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 8/2/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:46:17 -0700 From: "DerickAA" Subject: Re: [db] Oil/Compression/filter/chronicles of ............? As long as you do not mind pouring oil into it, I would run it until you can afford a new ride or until it gives up the ghost. Nothing like that self changing oil option. :) Have you checked your valve adjustment lately? This engine is know for the rings going bad though. Good news is if you replace the rings and nothing else you may get another 100K out of her. I know one gentleman who has done just that. I would change oil every 6K just to get the sludge out of her. The good filters can be had via mail order. www.mbz.org www.epsparts.com www.importpartsauthority.com And I am sure there is a autoparts store close to you that specializes in Euro parts. Wix filters are a good sub in a pinch. The only thing I would worry about with low compression is starting the beast in cold weather. The engine is quite robust and will serve you right until the bitter end. Derick - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 4:32 PM Subject: [db] Oil/Compression/filter/chronicles of ............? > ............? is her name. I have called her "Katie" in the past, but this proved to be offensive to my fiancee. Don't remember what I was supposed to call her now. Anyhow, I have some questions. As usual, though I have been gone for some time (no access at my house.) > > Oil. She leaks it (and probably also burns some, but you can never prove it with a diesel.) Do I need to change it still, or just change the filter and keep pouring the Delo in? I suppose I should, just less often, right? She loses about a quart every 300 miles or so, which makes me think that with that much oil flowing through, I should be able to let the change intervals get quite long. Maybe. > > Filter. Where can I get "the good one"? I have an STP in it now, and am not worried about it, but I want the motor to last, so I want to "get the good stuff." As long as it isn't enough for a down payment on a new car. :-) > > Compression. Now here's why I want to "get the good stuff." I ran the motor with the crankcase vent disconnected and was horrified to realize just how much blowby I have. I must have low compression on at least one cylinder (I can feel it at an idle with the auto tranny in gear) and probably none of them are quite right. I have no idea how much use the car has seen (odo is semi-kaput) or what care it has had (seemed to have gasser oil in it when I bought it) but I know they are tough, and with some pampering now, I should be able to keep it going for a long time still.........please tell me I'm right. Otherwise, she will go until she won't go anymore and then probably become a parts car. (There are some body issues from a deer accident that make it iffy as to whether she would warrant a new engine. Unless of course, I could get a good used one from a wrecked car. The one that got rear-ended by the drunk femme comes to mind.....) Anyhow, I would like feedback. As far as I can tell, nothing is coming loose inside, so I am not too worried.....but this Michigan winter could make starting interesting. Thankfully, it has the block heater. > > Chronicles.....they are weird and too long to tell now I guess.....time is up. Have fun, and I should be able to get back into this thing soon; I have a cable coming so I can do this through my cel-fone. Hee hee. Always wanted that anyhow..... > > Bye for now y'all > > Jason > '81 240D guessing ~325K MI (and still she rolls on....) > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 8/2/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:02:19 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] Oil/Compression/filter/chronicles of ............? Jason, Derick covered about all of it except mentioning that the 'good' filters from the places he recommended are probably less expensive than the 'bad' ones at McParts. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of DerickAA Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:46 PM To: 'dbl'; jasonbassett-at-juno.com Subject: Re: [db] Oil/Compression/filter/chronicles of ............? As long as you do not mind pouring oil into it, I would run it until you can afford a new ride or until it gives up the ghost. Nothing like that self changing oil option. :) Have you checked your valve adjustment lately? This engine is know for the rings going bad though. Good news is if you replace the rings and nothing else you may get another 100K out of her. I know one gentleman who has done just that. I would change oil every 6K just to get the sludge out of her. The good filters can be had via mail order. www.mbz.org www.epsparts.com www.importpartsauthority.com And I am sure there is a autoparts store close to you that specializes in Euro parts. Wix filters are a good sub in a pinch. The only thing I would worry about with low compression is starting the beast in cold weather. The engine is quite robust and will serve you right until the bitter end. Derick - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 4:32 PM Subject: [db] Oil/Compression/filter/chronicles of ............? > ............? is her name. I have called her "Katie" in the past, but this proved to be offensive to my fiancee. Don't remember what I was supposed to call her now. Anyhow, I have some questions. As usual, though I have been gone for some time (no access at my house.) > > Oil. She leaks it (and probably also burns some, but you can never prove it with a diesel.) Do I need to change it still, or just change the filter and keep pouring the Delo in? I suppose I should, just less often, right? She loses about a quart every 300 miles or so, which makes me think that with that much oil flowing through, I should be able to let the change intervals get quite long. Maybe. > > Filter. Where can I get "the good one"? I have an STP in it now, and am not worried about it, but I want the motor to last, so I want to "get the good stuff." As long as it isn't enough for a down payment on a new car. :-) > > Compression. Now here's why I want to "get the good stuff." I ran the motor with the crankcase vent disconnected and was horrified to realize just how much blowby I have. I must have low compression on at least one cylinder (I can feel it at an idle with the auto tranny in gear) and probably none of them are quite right. I have no idea how much use the car has seen (odo is semi-kaput) or what care it has had (seemed to have gasser oil in it when I bought it) but I know they are tough, and with some pampering now, I should be able to keep it going for a long time still.........please tell me I'm right. Otherwise, she will go until she won't go anymore and then probably become a parts car. (There are some body issues from a deer accident that make it iffy as to whether she would warrant a new engine. Unless of course, I could get a good used one from a wrecked car. The one that got rear-ended by the drunk femme comes to mind.....) Anyhow, I would like feedback. As far as I can tell, nothing is coming loose inside, so I am not too worried.....but this Michigan winter could make starting interesting. Thankfully, it has the block heater. > > Chronicles.....they are weird and too long to tell now I guess.....time is up. Have fun, and I should be able to get back into this thing soon; I have a cable coming so I can do this through my cel-fone. Hee hee. Always wanted that anyhow..... > > Bye for now y'all > > Jason > '81 240D guessing ~325K MI (and still she rolls on....) > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 8/2/2004 ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1517 **********************************