From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Aug 4 21:01:22 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, August 5 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1520 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... [db] Now: Cummins - Was: Diesel Dreamin - Should be strong interest to John RE: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... RE: [db] Slight oil Leak under turbo Re: [db] Now: Cummins - Was: Diesel Dreamin - Should be strong interest to John RE: [db] Slight oil Leak under turbo Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... [db] Great news about the 240D! Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... RE: [db] Slight oil Leak under turbo Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:54:10 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... > two reasons, no, three, why that won't happen: > 1) very heavy > 2) EXTREMELY noisey > 3) very expensive. > > :) > john Okay... Heavy isn't a problem with suspension modifications What?!? Too NOISEY!??! That's the COOL part of that engine! That's the sound of POWER coming down the road young man! People sit up and take notice when they hear that sound! The rhythm of big machinery! ;) Money is no object with you ;) Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:07:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Jim Hoffman wrote: > Okay... Heavy isn't a problem with suspension modifications > *** Not till you hit that first turn.... - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:14:35 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... > Jim Hoffman wrote: > > Okay... Heavy isn't a problem with suspension modifications > > > *** Not till you hit that first turn.... > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) If you've modified the suspension such that it's basically a 3/4 or one ton truck why would the first turn cause you a problem?? Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:27:59 -0700 From: Nick.Eckert-at-theaustin.com Subject: [db] Now: Cummins - Was: Diesel Dreamin - Should be strong interest to John Hi All, I have been undertaking converting several of my vehicles to diesel over the past few years. One such conversion in the works is a 1966 Land Rover IIa 5 door to a Cummins 6AT. It's a 3.4 litre inline 6 with a Turbo. I purchased it used and it came out of a UPS truck. Came complete, fan blade to bell housing for a GM tranny, only $1,250 + $250 shipping Long Beach to Seattle. No doubt it is a heavy engine, but not expensive at all. Cheers, Nick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:42:10 -0500 From: Subject: RE: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Could be some federal vehicle classification system where 3/4 ton becomes "medium duty" instead of "light duty", allowing a different set of emissions standards to apply. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john meister > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:24 AM > To: Vernon Tuck > Cc: jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... > > > I know of one that went into a Grand Wagoneer... the > motors are very heavy, don't know of any federal law though > that would prevent it... > > john > > Vernon Tuck wrote: > > I was told by a Cummins guy that by federal law a Cummins 6 > cannot go into > > anything less than a 3/4T truck. Since I haven't been > following this thread > > I don't know if that's pertinent or not. > > > > Regardless, you'd better have a really meaty front > suspension. Those > > engines are heaveeeee. > > VT > > > > < > fit nicely in the Jeep. Send pics when you get it done ;) > > > > Jim/ > > > > > >>Kevin, > >> > >>Appreciate the input. A 6.2L Diesel wouldn't be a bad plan, > >>they are a bit heavy and not the most fuel efficient. I think > >>I'd go with the 6.5L TD if I were going with a V8. > >> > >>If I went with the GM Diesel I'd > >>go with a newer 700R4 out of a big Blazer... my '83 GMC Jimmy was > >>a pretty decent rig... but I never got it over 20mpg... :( > >> > >>I wouldn't run a TH400 and QT, my axles are wrong... and besides > >>I'm not a big fan of TH400's or Borg Warner QTs. > >> > >>I wouldn't put a 727 in my Jeep either... I've replaced too > >>many in my FSJs. I am totally disillusioned with "elephant" power, > >>at least in the Jeep versions. I want an overdrive tranny... > >>I've been in overdrive... I can't go back... :) > >> > >>The Nissan 3.3L is an ok Diesel, but seriously underpowered. > >>I'd rather use a Mercedes Diesel if I was going with > underpowered. :) > >> > >>I like the AW4 transmissions... And as a fall back I could use > >>my old world class T-5 that was behind my 4.2L... although I > >>really want (and need) an Automatic... :( > >> > >>john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:45:05 -0500 From: Subject: RE: [db] Slight oil Leak under turbo The WVO shouldn't be a problem, since the injection pump on these motors is lubed with engine oil, not by the diesel itself as on some other setups. Valves and filters should help with the roughness. You should also check/adjust the "rack damper bolt", which I think is on the bottom of the injection pump. But probably the true roughness culprit is the motor mounts. A fresh set of those will amaze you with the improvement they provide. I don't know diddly about the oil leak, though, which was your main question. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 173K > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of hue wong > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:44 AM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: [db] Slight oil Leak under turbo > > > Ho All! > > I have a slight (getting slightly worse) oil leak that > looks like it's comming out of the bottom area under > the Turbo (look slike it might be comming out of the > turbo intake????) on a 84 300td. I thought I saw a > similar post a few months ago. > > Just wanted to ping the group and see if this is a > semi-common problem on these units. And if so, what > may it be and how hard to fix? Seems like the engine > is running a lilttle ruff. I'm going to adjust the > valves and change out the filters and see if that > takes some of the roughness out. I've been running > about a 25% french fry oil mix this summer and am > wondering if I'm clogging things up... > > > Anyway. Thanx in advance! > -hue- > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:48:21 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: [db] Now: Cummins - Was: Diesel Dreamin - Should be strong interest to John Actually, the "A" engines are Onan engines. As I imagine you know, Cummins bought Onan. I don't know much about these engines. But my impression is that although they're excellent engines, they're not nearly as heavy as the "B" engines. Therefore, they're a far more suitable repower alternative for many applications such as a Land Rover. Regards, Vernon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:49:29 -0700 (PDT) From: hue wong Subject: RE: [db] Slight oil Leak under turbo I replaced the front motor mounts, but didn't know about the backs? (not even sure where they are located) I suspect that if the fronts were bad, then the backs, well..... How hard it is to do the backs? The fronts were fairly easy! - --- Alec_Cordova-at-Dell.com wrote: > The WVO shouldn't be a problem, since the injection > pump on these motors > is lubed with engine oil, not by the diesel itself > as on some other > setups. > > Valves and filters should help with the roughness. > You should also > check/adjust the "rack damper bolt", which I think > is on the bottom of > the injection pump. But probably the true roughness > culprit is the motor > mounts. A fresh set of those will amaze you with the > improvement they > provide. > > I don't know diddly about the oil leak, though, > which was your main > question. > > Alec Cordova > Taylor, Texas > 89 300CE, 173K > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of > hue wong > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:44 AM > > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > Subject: [db] Slight oil Leak under turbo > > > > > > Ho All! > > > > I have a slight (getting slightly worse) oil leak > that > > looks like it's comming out of the bottom area > under > > the Turbo (look slike it might be comming out of > the > > turbo intake????) on a 84 300td. I thought I saw > a > > similar post a few months ago. > > > > Just wanted to ping the group and see if this is a > > semi-common problem on these units. And if so, > what > > may it be and how hard to fix? Seems like the > engine > > is running a lilttle ruff. I'm going to adjust > the > > valves and change out the filters and see if that > > takes some of the roughness out. I've been > running > > about a 25% french fry oil mix this summer and am > > wondering if I'm clogging things up... > > > > > > Anyway. Thanx in advance! > > -hue- > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:18:18 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 09:17:35AM -0700, john meister wrote: > two reasons, no, three, why that won't happen: > 1) very heavy > 2) EXTREMELY noisey > 3) very expensive. And all three fit with the recommendation of a 6.2. The 6.2 was designed with keeping the weight down in mind. It weighs a teense more than a GM big block, which I have personally seen in full size jeeps. Pretty clean install too. You can buy remanned 6.2s cheap. If you want a 6.5, they're about the same size, but a bit heavier, cost a bit more, and the electronic injection pump is nowhere near as reliable as the DB2 on the 6.2. Yes, the 6.2 had a DB2 the first year (1993) only. With a little creativity (which we all know John has no shortage of), a custom turbo setup can be put on the 6.2 to avoid paying Gale Banks a ton of money. junkyard turbos are your friend. The Nissan 3.3L isn't that gutless, provided you find a turbo one. The 80 scouts with the turbo actually went okay, and with 3.54 gears, 4 speed manual, and 31" tires, they'd get 22-25 mpg. You should be at least in that ballpark with an overdrive auto (perhaps given a regear), and you can't tell me that a 1980 scout traveller is way lighter than a J10. :) I agree about the other engines. A "Dodge" cummins is too heavy and a bit too long, causing other interesting problems. The powerchoke is fly by wire, so you don't want that, and the IDI 6.9/7.3 are obscenely heavy as well. Wonder what the bolt pattern on the Izusu 235 inch four banger in those straight trucks is. Probably aisin of some sort, and those things push somewhere around 190 horse, and gobs of torque. Fairly compact engine, I'd imagine you could find one easily if you found a wrecked NPR. Don't overheat it though, I think it has an Aluminum head on an iron block. Izusu always did like doing that. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 17:35:24 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 09:17:35AM -0700, john meister wrote: > two reasons, no, three, why that won't happen: > 1) very heavy > 2) EXTREMELY noisey > 3) very expensive. Check out this link: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201965 A Cummins 4BT... Four cylinder... Might be worth a look... Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:46:47 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 05:35:24PM -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 09:17:35AM -0700, john meister wrote: > > two reasons, no, three, why that won't happen: > > 1) very heavy > > 2) EXTREMELY noisey > > 3) very expensive. > > Check out this link: > > http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201965 > > A Cummins 4BT... Four cylinder... Might be worth a look... Those are pretty cool engines. Main problem with them is also weight. That's a medium duty truck engine. Aside from its redline being aroiund 2600, it probably has a good extra 150-200 lbs on a big block chevy. And that's only a four banger :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:10:11 -0500 From: "Richard F Dillon" Subject: [db] Great news about the 240D! Folks, I have GREAT news, the 240D has come back to life! When I got home from work today, I found ~1/4 cup of Lubromoly diesel purge (all I could find) in the garage, and removed the cannister filter, poured out some diesel, and poured in some diesel purge. I then pumped the hand pump until I saw fluid coming out of the filter, then tightened it, and pumped it again ~20 times. I then glowed/cranked the engine 3 times, and finally the engine roared to life! I let it run for ~20 minutes before being brave enough to shut it off, then I turned it on and off 4 more times. The only problem I have left with the 240D is that the driver's side window won't roll up. The day before my daughter parked it in the driveway, the window was rolled down, and it wouldn't roll back up. I have had plastic over the window since then, but I hope to take the door apart this weekend. Does anyone have any advice as to what to look for? Thanks so much again for all the help and advice I've received from you all as I've tried to get the 240D back up and running. Thanks again, Richard "Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Choose your words, for they become actions. Understand your actions, for they become habits. Study your habits, they will become your character. Develop your character for it becomes your destiny." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 20:47:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Okay, so the J10 is 1/2 ton, J20 is 3/4 ton, is there a J30?? A >-->one ton?? there was at one time... in the '60's... john >--> >-->Jim/ >--> >-->> yes, the J20. >-->> >-->> But the only difference is they use a Dana 60 instead of a Dana 44, >-->> 8 lug wheels instead of 6 lug and heavier springs... It would take >-->> me about 4 hours to turn my 1/2T into a 3/4T or heavier. ;) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->> > For saftey purposes I wouldn't put it in anything less than a 3/4t >-->> > truck. Jeep made a 3/4t pickup didn't they?? >-->> > >-->> > Jim/ >-->> > >-->> > >-->> >>I was told by a Cummins guy that by federal law a Cummins 6 cannot >-->go into >-->> >>anything less than a 3/4T truck. Since I haven't been following this >-->> > >-->> > thread >-->> > >-->> >>I don't know if that's pertinent or not. >-->> >> >-->> >>Regardless, you'd better have a really meaty front suspension. Those >-->> >>engines are heaveeeee. >-->> >>VT >-->> >> >-->> >><-->> >>fit nicely in the Jeep. Send pics when you get it done ;) >-->> >> >-->> >>Jim/ >-->> >> >-->> >> >-->> >>>Kevin, >-->> >>> >-->> >>>Appreciate the input. A 6.2L Diesel wouldn't be a bad plan, >-->> >>>they are a bit heavy and not the most fuel efficient. I think >-->> >>>I'd go with the 6.5L TD if I were going with a V8. >-->> >>> >-->> >>>If I went with the GM Diesel I'd >-->> >>>go with a newer 700R4 out of a big Blazer... my '83 GMC Jimmy was >-->> >>>a pretty decent rig... but I never got it over 20mpg... :( >-->> >>> >-->> >>>I wouldn't run a TH400 and QT, my axles are wrong... and besides >-->> >>>I'm not a big fan of TH400's or Borg Warner QTs. >-->> >>> >-->> >>>I wouldn't put a 727 in my Jeep either... I've replaced too >-->> >>>many in my FSJs. I am totally disillusioned with "elephant" power, >-->> >>>at least in the Jeep versions. I want an overdrive tranny... >-->> >>>I've been in overdrive... I can't go back... :) >-->> >>> >-->> >>>The Nissan 3.3L is an ok Diesel, but seriously underpowered. >-->> >>>I'd rather use a Mercedes Diesel if I was going with underpowered. :) >-->> >>> >-->> >>>I like the AW4 transmissions... And as a fall back I could use >-->> >>>my old world class T-5 that was behind my 4.2L... although I >-->> >>>really want (and need) an Automatic... :( >-->> >>> >-->> >>>john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 20:49:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Slight oil Leak under turbo could be the turbo seals... how's your oil consumption? john On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 Alec_Cordova-at-Dell.com wrote: >-->The WVO shouldn't be a problem, since the injection pump on these motors >-->is lubed with engine oil, not by the diesel itself as on some other >-->setups. >--> >-->Valves and filters should help with the roughness. You should also >-->check/adjust the "rack damper bolt", which I think is on the bottom of >-->the injection pump. But probably the true roughness culprit is the motor >-->mounts. A fresh set of those will amaze you with the improvement they >-->provide. >--> >-->I don't know diddly about the oil leak, though, which was your main >-->question. >--> >-->Alec Cordova >-->Taylor, Texas >-->89 300CE, 173K >--> >--> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of hue wong >-->> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:44 AM >-->> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> Subject: [db] Slight oil Leak under turbo >-->> >-->> >-->> Ho All! >-->> >-->> I have a slight (getting slightly worse) oil leak that >-->> looks like it's comming out of the bottom area under >-->> the Turbo (look slike it might be comming out of the >-->> turbo intake????) on a 84 300td. I thought I saw a >-->> similar post a few months ago. >-->> >-->> Just wanted to ping the group and see if this is a >-->> semi-common problem on these units. And if so, what >-->> may it be and how hard to fix? Seems like the engine >-->> is running a lilttle ruff. I'm going to adjust the >-->> valves and change out the filters and see if that >-->> takes some of the roughness out. I've been running >-->> about a 25% french fry oil mix this summer and am >-->> wondering if I'm clogging things up... >-->> >-->> >-->> Anyway. Thanx in advance! >-->> -hue- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> __________________________________ >-->> Do you Yahoo!? >-->> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! >-->> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1520 **********************************