diesel-benz-digest Thursday, August 5 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1521 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] 33.88 mpg and 459 emails... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Now: Cummins - Was: Diesel Dreamin - Should be strong interest to John Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... [db] paraguay disaster? Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... [db] engine oil - infamous subject RE: [db] engine oil - infamous subject [db] RE: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1520 Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... Re: [db] paraguay disaster? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:03:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] 33.88 mpg and 459 emails... only got 33.88 mpg on the return trip... but we took a few side adventures involving antiques, coffee and so on... :) I left the hotel at 10am... got home around 9pm... 459 emails!!! This spam thing is way outta control... about 60 of those were real emails... someone make them stop, please... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:11:35 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... the problem is the weight... not the suspension. :) even in the long wheelbase hd dodge it turned like the queen mary. :) john On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: >>-->> Jim Hoffman wrote: >>-->> > Okay... Heavy isn't a problem with suspension modifications >>-->> > >>-->> *** Not till you hit that first turn.... >>-->> >>-->> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >>--> >>-->If you've modified the suspension such that it's basically a 3/4 or >>-->one ton truck why would the first turn cause you a problem?? >>--> >>-->Jim/ >>--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:12:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Now: Cummins - Was: Diesel Dreamin - Should be strong interest to John would love to find out more about this... power, actual weight and where I can get one. :) john On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 Nick.Eckert-at-theaustin.com wrote: >>-->Hi All, >>--> >>--> I have been undertaking converting several of my vehicles to diesel >>-->over the past few years. >>--> >>--> One such conversion in the works is a 1966 Land Rover IIa 5 door to a >>-->Cummins 6AT. It's a 3.4 litre inline 6 with a Turbo. I purchased it used >>-->and it came out of a UPS truck. Came complete, fan blade to bell housing >>-->for a GM tranny, only $1,250 + $250 shipping Long Beach to Seattle. No >>-->doubt it is a heavy engine, but not expensive at all. >>--> >>-->Cheers, >>--> >>-->Nick >>--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:18:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... actually there might be a couple of issues... 1) an older motor into a newer car and/or 2) emissions regulations - IF you have testing... john On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >>-->Vernon Tuck wrote: >>-->> >>-->> I was told by a Cummins guy that by federal law a Cummins 6 cannot go into >>-->> anything less than a 3/4T truck. >>-->*** Did he give the CFR number of the regulation? Issue of the Federal >>-->Register? Sounds farfetched to me. >>--> >>--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >>--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:21:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: >>-->> two reasons, no, three, why that won't happen: >>-->> 1) very heavy >>-->> 2) EXTREMELY noisey >>-->> 3) very expensive. >>-->> >>-->> :) >>-->> john >>--> >>-->Okay... Heavy isn't a problem with suspension modifications yes, heavy is a problem... I dislike the physics involved in a nasty thing called UNDERSTEER. I totalled a Jeep with a locker because of it. Never again. My rigs will be balanced as much as possible... Nose heavy rigs ain't gonna be in my stable... ;) >>-->What?!? Too NOISEY!??! That's the COOL part of that engine! That's >>-->the sound of POWER coming down the road young man! People sit up and >>-->take notice when they hear that sound! The rhythm of big machinery! Quiet Diesels are much nicer... that way after you leave them behind at the light and they finally catch up and say, "that's a Diesel?" then you tell them, yep, and it gets 39mpg too. :) >>-->;) >>-->Money is no object with you no, it's not an object with me. ;) how about you? ;) that's the other problem... no money, no motor. ;) rofl... >>--> >>-->;) >>--> >>-->Jim/ >>--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:29:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >>-->On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 09:17:35AM -0700, john meister wrote: >>-->> two reasons, no, three, why that won't happen: >>-->> 1) very heavy >>-->> 2) EXTREMELY noisey >>-->> 3) very expensive. >>--> >>-->And all three fit with the recommendation of a 6.2. The 6.2 was designed >>-->with keeping the weight down in mind. It weighs a teense more than a GM big >>-->block, which I have personally seen in full size jeeps. Pretty clean install >>-->too. >>--> >>-->You can buy remanned 6.2s cheap. If you want a 6.5, they're about the same >>-->size, but a bit heavier, cost a bit more, and the electronic injection pump >>-->is nowhere near as reliable as the DB2 on the 6.2. Yes, the 6.2 had a DB2 the >>-->first year (1993) only. the 6.5 TD is very quiet though... but I've had good luck with the 6.2L and will give that some serious thought as I can always add a Banks kit to it. :) >>-->With a little creativity (which we all know John has no shortage of), a custom >>-->turbo setup can be put on the 6.2 to avoid paying Gale Banks a ton of money. >>-->junkyard turbos are your friend. yep... see, I was already heading there... ;) >>-->The Nissan 3.3L isn't that gutless, provided you find a turbo one. The 80 >>-->scouts with the turbo actually went okay, and with 3.54 gears, 4 speed manual, >>-->and 31" tires, they'd get 22-25 mpg. You should be at least in that ballpark >>-->with an overdrive auto (perhaps given a regear), and you can't tell me >>-->that a 1980 scout traveller is way lighter than a J10. :) ok, you win... superdawg has to be lighter then a traveller... didn't really think about that much... :) Finding one of those engines could be a problem... but a 6.2L doesn't sound like a bad plan... >>-->I agree about the other engines. A "Dodge" cummins is too heavy and a bit >>-->too long, causing other interesting problems. The powerchoke is fly by wire, >>-->so you don't want that, and the IDI 6.9/7.3 are obscenely heavy as well. the other problem with all of those engines is the costs... I priced out a cummins... the rascals wanted more for it then I paid for my '91 300D!!! Grabbing the running gear out of a Diesel Suburban 4x4 might not be a bad idea... then I could sell that '96 4.0L, my AW4 and maybe my NP219's... or use the NP219's behind the 700R4 (or equivalent). That 6.2L in superdawg would be a good fit... it did a great job in my '82 GMC Jimmy... and the Jimmy was WAY bigger then Superdawg... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:30:42 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... I looked at this engine back in 1989 when doing an engine swap in my '67 Wagoneer... new cost from cummins back then was around $4k. The hangup for me was that was the beginning of expenses, needed a trans adapter, injection pump, yada, yada, yada... john On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: >>-->On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 09:17:35AM -0700, john meister wrote: >>-->> two reasons, no, three, why that won't happen: >>-->> 1) very heavy >>-->> 2) EXTREMELY noisey >>-->> 3) very expensive. >>--> >>-->Check out this link: >>--> >>-->http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201965 >>--> >>-->A Cummins 4BT... Four cylinder... Might be worth a look... >>--> >>-->Jim/ >>--> >>--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:29:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] paraguay disaster? anyone heard from Ron in Paraguay recently? http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=51180&id=2004080501260001529529 john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:27:11 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... >>> > Check out this link: >>> > >>> > http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201965 >>> > >>> > A Cummins 4BT... Four cylinder... Might be worth a look... > >> >> Those are pretty cool engines. Main problem with them is also weight. That's >> a medium duty truck engine. Aside from its redline being aroiund 2600, it >> probably has a good extra 150-200 lbs on a big block chevy. And that's only >> a four banger :) >> >> K Well, I guess I'm still angry with GM and the way they single handedly killed the diesel market with that stupid modified gas 350. I REFUSE to buy ANYTHING from them! AND, it appears that the other options are better anyway ;) Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:36:21 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... You still haven't answered "why"... The suspension is designed to handle a certain amount of weight. I drive an F350 with the 7.3 IDI Turbo diesel. Yeah, it's heavy. But the suspension is designed to handle it. I don't tip over when I go around a turn! ;) Jim/ >> the problem is the weight... not the suspension. :) >> >> even in the long wheelbase hd dodge it turned like the queen mary. :) >> >> john >> >> On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: >> > >>> >-->> Jim Hoffman wrote: >>> >-->> > Okay... Heavy isn't a problem with suspension modifications >>> >-->> > >>> >-->> *** Not till you hit that first turn.... >>> >-->> >>> >-->> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >>> >--> >>> >-->If you've modified the suspension such that it's basically a 3/4 or >>> >-->one ton truck why would the first turn cause you a problem?? >>> >--> >>> >-->Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:44:07 -0400 From: "wmpless" Subject: [db] engine oil - infamous subject Hello, The previous owner of my 190D used Castrol oil in the engine and I, therefore, continued to use it. Since the last oil change I had driven about 2500 miles and noticed then that the hydraulic lifters started to make noise. Oil used is their 15-40 RX Super. After I changed the oil the lifter noise disappeared. In my other 190D I used Quaker State FCI oil and the lifters never became noisy. After I have used up my Castrol supply will switch to Quaker State. Anybody has similar experience?? Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:55:51 -0500 From: Subject: RE: [db] engine oil - infamous subject Quick answer: change to Chevron Delo 400, and use real oil filters. Longer answers will probably soon flood the ether. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 173K >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of wmpless >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:44 AM >> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> Subject: [db] engine oil - infamous subject >> >> >> Hello, >> The previous owner of my 190D used Castrol oil in the engine >> and I, therefore, >> continued to use it. Since the last oil change I had driven >> about 2500 miles >> and noticed then that the hydraulic lifters started to make >> noise. Oil used is >> their 15-40 RX Super. After I changed the oil the lifter >> noise disappeared. >> In my other 190D I used Quaker State FCI oil and the lifters >> never became >> noisy. After I have used up my Castrol supply will switch to >> Quaker State. >> Anybody has similar experience?? >> Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:00:56 -0400 From: wblack-at-deltacorp.com Subject: [db] RE: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1520 I gotta agree - I have one of these in a 1987 GMC box van(made by Utilimaster - sp), looks like a UPS truck. It looks like the 6BT missing 2 cylinders. I believe both share the Chevy bell housing bolt pattern because the 4BT was also available with a TH400. While it moves the weight(Last time I took scrap - it was 11,000 lbs across the scales) it is governed to about 2500 rpms which shows to be about 56 mph - tops. I did some work on it when my church was using it to move the music equipment. After they built the church, it came up for sale. I inquired about the price and they just gave it to me. I never would have imagined that I would use it like I do. It returns 17mpg at WOT - 56 mph. ;) Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:46:47 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 05:35:24PM -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: >> On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 09:17:35AM -0700, john meister wrote: > >>> > two reasons, no, three, why that won't happen: >>> > 1) very heavy >>> > 2) EXTREMELY noisey >>> > 3) very expensive. > >> >> Check out this link: >> >> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201965 >> >> A Cummins 4BT... Four cylinder... Might be worth a look... Those are pretty cool engines. Main problem with them is also weight. That's a medium duty truck engine. Aside from its redline being aroiund 2600, it probably has a good extra 150-200 lbs on a big block chevy. And that's only a four banger :) K - - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:43:10 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 08:27:11AM -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: >> Well, I guess I'm still angry with GM and the way they single handedly >> killed the diesel market with that stupid modified gas 350. I >> REFUSE to buy ANYTHING from them! AND, it appears that the other >> options are better anyway ;) Heh. Now for the real kicker. The Cornbinder 6.9/7.3 and powerstroke, all of which share the same basic block (save bore and stroke differences) started life as a gasoline engine, and was later converted to diesel. Granted, it wasn't a car gas engine, but a medium duty truck engine, but it was a gasser just the same. :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:52:56 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Diesel dreamin'... the technical aspects... >> On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 08:27:11AM -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: > >>> > Well, I guess I'm still angry with GM and the way they single handedly >>> > killed the diesel market with that stupid modified gas 350. I >>> > REFUSE to buy ANYTHING from them! AND, it appears that the other >>> > options are better anyway ;) > >> >> Heh. Now for the real kicker. The Cornbinder 6.9/7.3 and powerstroke, >> all of which share the same basic block (save bore and stroke differences) >> started life as a gasoline engine, and was later converted to diesel. >> >> Granted, it wasn't a car gas engine, but a medium duty truck engine, but >> it was a gasser just the same. :) >> >> K Well, did they (the IH engines) self distruct after 60K miles?!?! I think NOT! ;) I'm angry that they significantly altered the views of the average person on their perception of the diesel engine. IH does not have this same dubious distinction. IH obviously engineered the conversion correctly. Well, let me correct that somewhat... I'm angry at them also for creating an engine that cavitates and then denying any problems. That was not cool either. But at least now that I know, I can take the proper precautions to protect my engine. just my $.02, YMMV Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:43:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] paraguay disaster? glad to hear it. :) was trying to figure out where you were, all I had was that you were on the river... :) I know I had more info in prior emails, but didn't have the computer on line that had it. :) it's a terrible tragedy... it sounded like the storekeeper locked the doors??? john On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Renaud (Ron) Olgiati wrote: >>-->On Thursday 05 August 2004 01:29, john wrote: >>-->> anyone heard from Ron in Paraguay recently? >>--> >>-->I did ;-3) >>--> >>-->Fire was at the other end of town, no one we know involved. >>--> >>-->Thanks for your kind thought, >>--> >>-->God bless, >>--> >>-->Ron. >>-->-- >>--> Reality is for people who lack imagination. >>--> >>--> -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- >>--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1521 **********************************