From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Aug 9 09:41:15 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, August 9 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1527 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Bosch fuel injection pumps in 1986 MB cars [db] Rebuilding an OM616 Re: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 RE: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 Re: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 [db] OT-Xfr case question [db] OT-Axles question... [db] OT-another Diesel donor RE: [db] need measurements from 6.2 and 6.5L GM Diesels [db] OM 617.952 shakes at idle but only when warm RE: [db] OM 617.952 shakes at idle but only when warm Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:32:39 -0400 From: "wmpless" Subject: [db] Bosch fuel injection pumps in 1986 MB cars Hello, wondering what wears out in these mechanical fuel injection pumps. In my previous car changed some o-rings when a leak developed. If possible would like to have a few details. Thanks Wiard PS don't have a problem yet. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:26:41 -0400 From: Jason R Bassett Subject: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 Speaking of tired engines, I have one. I know that the thing has low compression on at least one cylinder (probably two) and I suspect that one or more of the bearings is worn (not fried, but not real nice either; I hear a whine which matches the engine speed.) So......I figure I might just rebuild the thing (once I pick up a clunker to drive in the mean time) but I have no rebuilding experience. How hard would it be? What would I need to do? This comes to mind: New rod bearings New crankshaft end bearings New rings Hone cylinders New timing chain Degunk entire thing New head gasket and bolts Possibly redo valves (but I think they're OK) I figure the sooner I do it the better; how long should it take? I really don't want to run it until something gives up if there's any other way. How much would a crate OM616 be? I have a feeling I don't really want to know.......what about the rebuild pieces I would need? I am almost utterly ignorant on the topic, though fairly handy (an avid do-it-yourselfer.) If it helps, I do have a pit available. BTW, I wish shadowfax were in MI.......... Jason ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:05:51 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 Michigan is only about a leisurely five day drive away... ;) I have a feeling you'll have your motor rebuilt long before Superdawg has his Diesel engine... :) Ran into a snag tonight going over to pickup the 'Burb... Wonderful AMTRAK was running late... way late... in fact, we've gone to dinner, shopping and back home after a cab ride and it still hasn't left the station... we were supposed to be over there about 8:42pm... so we scrubbed the mission... the salesman is going to be nice enough to drive it over for us next weekend. :) Also found out that the axle drop is probably on the passenger side... which means I have to change out the front axle or xfr case. I'm thinking that there is a reclocking kit available to mate my Jeep xfr case to the Chevy/GMC transmission... I hope so. :) But it wouldn't be all that bad to swap out the front axle, I think the one on SuperDawg had been damaged at some point... john Jason R Bassett wrote: > Speaking of tired engines, I have one. I know that the thing has low > compression on at least one cylinder (probably two) and I suspect that > one or more of the bearings is worn (not fried, but not real nice either; > I hear a whine which matches the engine speed.) So......I figure I might > just rebuild the thing (once I pick up a clunker to drive in the mean > time) but I have no rebuilding experience. How hard would it be? What > would I need to do? This comes to mind: > > New rod bearings > New crankshaft end bearings > New rings > Hone cylinders > New timing chain > Degunk entire thing > New head gasket and bolts > Possibly redo valves (but I think they're OK) > > I figure the sooner I do it the better; how long should it take? I really > don't want to run it until something gives up if there's any other way. > How much would a crate OM616 be? I have a feeling I don't really want to > know.......what about the rebuild pieces I would need? I am almost > utterly ignorant on the topic, though fairly handy (an avid > do-it-yourselfer.) If it helps, I do have a pit available. > > BTW, I wish shadowfax were in MI.......... > > Jason > > ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:35:00 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 Jason, Much of the critical part about an engine rebuild can be done by experienced people using special tools at a machine shop. If you lack the experience, leave those parts to them. It will be difficult enough removing engine, transporting to shop and later re-installing. Buy the MB manual for your engine. They are available on Ebay and from Mercedes at 800-FOR-MERC. Read the manual. Chilton or Haynes is not sufficient substitute for the manual from MB. Find a good machine shop. Ask for recommendations from everyone you find who might know a good shop in your area. Visit shops recommended. Ask for cost, time estimate. Look at their operation. Is it a bunch of greasy yahoos who are always saying "Whoops"? Is the shop clean, orderly? Use your best judgment. Ask what part of job you can do, given your experience level. Learn which parts can be refinished, which must be replaced, which they decide on when they take things apart and measure them. They can give you an estimated range of costs. Prepare for the highest, pray for lowest. Take your time reading the manual and deciding on a machine shop. The more you know, the better questions you can ask. Get familiar with your engine. Learn to make all the adjustments you will need to set once engine has been rebuilt. Collect tools necessary to do that. Practice. Adjust valves; the most common problem when people suspect low compression is badly adjusted valves. Check timing chain stretch; chain will be replaced when you rebuild the engine; the degree of stretch can help determine good time to schedule rebuild. You may want to replace chain before doing complete rebuild. Adjust anything else that looks possible from your understanding of the manual. If it looks too difficult or takes expensive special tools, leave it to a well equipped professional. Change oil and filter early several times to make sure inside of engine is clean; use good oil & filter. Monitor oil gauge; if it doesn't pop up and peg shortly after engine lifts off idle, bearings may be bad. If it won't start in cold weather and you know valves are correctly adjusted, rings may be worn. De-gunk the engine. Keep it clean whenever you work on it. Few people rebuild their OM616s. They're pretty durable, generally outlast the car's body. At times of sudden, spontaneous internal engine disassembly many people install an engine from a recycler. Maintained and properly adjusted OM616s perform similarly well whether new and tight or well worn in. Have fun, Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jason R Bassett Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 9:27 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 Speaking of tired engines, I have one. I know that the thing has low compression on at least one cylinder (probably two) and I suspect that one or more of the bearings is worn (not fried, but not real nice either; I hear a whine which matches the engine speed.) So......I figure I might just rebuild the thing (once I pick up a clunker to drive in the mean time) but I have no rebuilding experience. How hard would it be? What would I need to do? This comes to mind: New rod bearings New crankshaft end bearings New rings Hone cylinders New timing chain Degunk entire thing New head gasket and bolts Possibly redo valves (but I think they're OK) I figure the sooner I do it the better; how long should it take? I really don't want to run it until something gives up if there's any other way. How much would a crate OM616 be? I have a feeling I don't really want to know.......what about the rebuild pieces I would need? I am almost utterly ignorant on the topic, though fairly handy (an avid do-it-yourselfer.) If it helps, I do have a pit available. BTW, I wish shadowfax were in MI.......... Jason ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:44:09 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 11:35:00PM -0500, Sam Williams wrote: > Adjust valves; the most common problem when people suspect low compression > is badly adjusted valves. Check timing chain stretch; chain will be > replaced when you rebuild the engine; the degree of stretch can help > determine good time to schedule rebuild. You may want to replace chain > before doing complete rebuild. Adjust anything else that looks possible > from your understanding of the manual. If it looks too difficult or takes > expensive special tools, leave it to a well equipped professional. Change > oil and filter early several times to make sure inside of engine is clean; > use good oil & filter. Monitor oil gauge; if it doesn't pop up and peg > shortly after engine lifts off idle, bearings may be bad. If it won't start > in cold weather and you know valves are correctly adjusted, rings may be > worn. De-gunk the engine. Keep it clean whenever you work on it. > > Few people rebuild their OM616s. They're pretty durable, generally outlast > the car's body. At times of sudden, spontaneous internal engine disassembly > many people install an engine from a recycler. Maintained and properly > adjusted OM616s perform similarly well whether new and tight or well worn > in. I agree with Sam. Unless the engine is blown, it doesn't need a rebuild :) On another list I am on, a person got an OM617 turbo that was nailing hard on one cylinder (and only had 120 psi of compression on that cylinder) to come back to life with a valve adjustment and driving it like he stole it. The going theory on that list was that the engine got carboned up, and one of the rings got stuck from the carbon. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:11:44 -0700 From: john meister Subject: [db] OT-Xfr case question I was heading over to Wenatchee tonight to get the '84 Suburban, but AMTRAK was running 3 hours late so we went home... I picked up a little nickel and found an '83 GMC Jimmy with the 6.2L... no turbo... test drove it and made an offer... really, really like that 6.2L Diesel... it's going to work superbly in my J10. Anyway, question I've got is can the XFR case on the GMC/700R4 be swapped out with a Jeep Xfr case so I get a driver's side drop? Anybody have one that's seen the back end? If I reclock it can I put a driver's side drop in there or use a Jeep xfr case? Otherwise I'll have to use a different front axle... (Elliott, do you still have the J10 front axle with that section of frame I gave you? You had to move to Texas didn't ya? ;) Heading down to get the '75 J10 hydraulic dump bed trailer with the little cherokee tomorrow... :) thanx, john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:34:18 -0700 From: john meister Subject: [db] OT-Axles question... Looking at the GMC Jimmy/Suburban, and the Jeep specs... the width on the axles appears to be pretty close... It looks like the GMC axles have springs more inboard then the Jeep... but I'm sure new perches could be welded on... Are the GM axles better then the Jeeps? Would solve a few problems if I could just swap axles... Looks like the 6.2L Diesels run 3.73 gear ratios... I started to go with 4.10's on my J10... I don't think the 700R4 would give me enough of an overdrive so going to 3.73's might be necessary to make full use of the engine. 3.73's have always seemed to be a "good" 4x4 ratio... and with an overdrive even better. :) later, john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:41:47 -0700 From: john meister Subject: [db] OT-another Diesel donor I went and looked at an '83 Jimmy with the 6.2L tonight... man, I love that engine... this thing ran out great... I'm $500 short of buying it though... :( maybe I'll get it for what I bid... Anyway... here's some pix of the engine/axles... http://www.wagoneers.com/SuperDawg/DawgYear2004/JimmyDiesel/ One thing is for certain... I don't NEED the turbo on this engine to be happy. :) I'm also not regretting selling my '83 Jimmy... these things feel massive... :) john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:55:07 -0600 From: Subject: RE: [db] need measurements from 6.2 and 6.5L GM Diesels Michael, Thanks for the validation...there isn't much I can do and the engine should be fairly healthy if I'm getting 16mpg. I haven't been doing any towing yet, but have been hoping to get a boat one of these years. I think I leave the towing gears in there, and just drive a bit slower. I usually try to keep it at or under 70mph. If I get up to 75mph, I'm sure the mileage would drop to 15mpg. 70 is plenty fast for a huge rig like that anyway....it doesn't have the handling or nimble-ness that my 1985 190D has anyway :) I usually just use my 190D if I have to make a trip on my own, or if we aren't going to spend the night with the family. I have been getting about 32-33mpg on road trips. But, if we are spending the night somewhere and have to pack all the bags, the portable crib, the baby swing, and the toys for the 4 year old; It's much easier (and worth the fuel $$) to just throw everything in the back of the suburban :) It gets crammed very quickly with Daddy, Mommy in the front and two kids in the back seat of the 190D....in fact, I can't even get my seat back far enough to be comfortable... due to the car seat footprint in the back seat... It turns out to be a good mix---use the 190D for trips w/o family, and use the suburban for family adventures... Thanks, Scott - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Aimino [mailto:maimino-at-alltel.net] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 5:49 PM To: scott_haaland-at-agilent.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: [db] need measurements from 6.2 and 6.5L GM Diesels Tow package is 4.10. With 4x4, the mpg should be 14-16mpg. If you want to increase your mpg, you need to change the gear ratio. All the engine mods in the world won't drop your rpms, and rpms have the greatest effect on fuel consumption. Of course, if you drop down to 3.73, you get 16-18mpg, but your tow capacity drops to 6000lbs. 3.42 wasn't an option for the 2500 - not sure if it can be retrofitted, or if it would be wise to do so. The 1500 with 3.42 is supposed to get 19-20 mpg. Standard disclaimers apply, especially YMMV. :) My 1500 Suburban has the old 6.2 diesel with 3.73 - I'm getting about 16 mpg with very gentle driving - never over 55. At 65mph, fuel consumption increases markedly. > It's the 2500, with 4x4. Not sure which gears, but I think it's the > tow package gears. It runs about 2250 RPM at 70 mph... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Aimino [mailto:maimino-at-alltel.net] > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:03 PM > To: scott_haaland-at-agilent.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: [db] need measurements from 6.2 and 6.5L GM Diesels > > > 1500 or 2500? Are you running the 3.42, 3.73, or 4.10 gears? The > 18mpg rating is for the 1500 running 3.42 gears, IIRC. > > > I have a 96 6.5L TD in my Suburban. I've been fairly disappointed > > with the mileage. I'm only getting about 16 mpg on the highway, and > > 13-14 mpg around town. I've installed new injectors, new FSD (Fuel > > solenoid Driver) and FSD Cooler mod, but it didn't help much. > > Haven't investigated further, but I understand that 18-19 mpg is > > about as good as they get for others. Maybe I'm wrong....and maybe > > something is wrong with my engine, but it runs good, has good power, > > and is consistent :) It has quite good power compared to a 6.2L, > > but you may get better mileage with the 6.2. > > > > R, > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john meister > > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:14 PM > > To: 'dbl'; xj; fsj list; curtis > > Subject: [db] need measurements from 6.2 and 6.5L GM Diesels > > > > > > I'm looking at using a GM 6.5L Turbo Diesel in my '83 J10 stepside. > > > > We need some measurements: > > > > - top of valve covers - widest part. > > - from bottom of oil pan to top of intake/air cleaner > > - from back of engine block (nearest the firewall) to the front of > > the fan. > > > > - which side is the oil sump on? > > any pictures of one? > > > > thanx, > > john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 09:02:49 -0700 From: Eric Ditwiler Subject: [db] OM 617.952 shakes at idle but only when warm Hi: My 1982 300 CD Turbo that has been to the moon and a third of the way home 320,000 has started shaking at idle after it has warmed up. I have changed the fuel filters, adjusted the valves, and installed the new type rack dampner bolt. The shaking only happens at a dead stop and is worse with the A/C off than when it is on. Anybody have any ideas or suggestions? - --Eric Eric Ditwiler, Assistant Dean Harvey Mudd College 301 E. 12 Street, Claremont, CA 91711 909-607-3134 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:51:30 -0700 From: "derick amburgey" Subject: RE: [db] OM 617.952 shakes at idle but only when warm Check your engine mounts before going any further. I had a couple go bad on the same engine. I could pull chunks of rubber out of it. There are 2 in the front and one back at the tranny. Derick - -----Original Message----- From: Eric Ditwiler [mailto:eric_ditwiler-at-HMC.Edu] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:03 AM To: Diesel Benz List (E-mail) Subject: [db] OM 617.952 shakes at idle but only when warm Hi: My 1982 300 CD Turbo that has been to the moon and a third of the way home 320,000 has started shaking at idle after it has warmed up. I have changed the fuel filters, adjusted the valves, and installed the new type rack dampner bolt. The shaking only happens at a dead stop and is worse with the A/C off than when it is on. Anybody have any ideas or suggestions? - --Eric Eric Ditwiler, Assistant Dean Harvey Mudd College 301 E. 12 Street, Claremont, CA 91711 909-607-3134 - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/2004 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). 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