From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Sep 21 07:33:04 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, September 21 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1563 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] glow plug light Re: [db] how disable? [db] RE: how disable Re: [db] glow plug light [db] 81 300D Knock Re: [db] 81 300D Knock RE: [db] how disable? RE: [db] how disable? RE: [db] 81 300D Knock Re: [db] glow plug light Re: [db] glow plug light Re: [db] 81 300D Knock Re: [db] glow plug light Re: [db] how disable? Re: [db] how disable? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:05:42 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 11:14:32AM -0700, john wrote: > I asked this question a while back and received an answer that > was either it's no big deal or it was the glow plug relay's way > of telling me that he wants to retire... > > anyway, it sometimes happens after a full throttle get into traffic > maneuver... it's also happened while just cruising along on the freeway. > > thoughts, ideas? or should I just wait until the dash light burns > out or it won't start in the morning? :) > > BTW, Paul, you'll have to see if your new 300d has the ASD. :) John, I think you're getting attacked by the fuse monster. If you're positive that you replaced all the fuses recently and cleaned up the contacts, including the big monster on the glow plug relay, then it is either the relay itself or the logic telling the relay to kick on. Maybe pop the relay and clean up its contacts? K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:11:28 -0700 From: Nick.Eckert-at-theaustin.com Subject: Re: [db] how disable? Oh that is just Devilish. Just the sort of thing to really frustrate someone >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:39:06 -0400 >From: "J.B. Hebert" >Subject: Re: [db] how disable? >Move the vacuum shutoff from the line that goes to the key directly to a >vacuum source when you leave the car. The car will start, but as soon as >it generates vacuum, it'll shut off again. If you want to get tricky, you >can even use an MB vacuum solenoid and a hidden switch to enable or disable >your "theft deterrent". This is assuming your kids aren't too diesel savvy... >J.B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:22:50 -0400 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] RE: how disable A club - you keep the keys. ;) If they find the keys - beat them with the club. Just kidding! Military school? While the other methods are effective, if your kids(or their friends) have any repair knowledge, your success will be short lived. One product that I have seen that looks pretty neat is a 'locking' system for the brakes. You put the brakes on, turn the key for the lock, release brakes. A solenoid stays closed keeping the brakes on. A 'smart' teenager can disconnect the hose to the shut off valve and jumper the starter quite quickly. :( A fuel shut off valve my be an option. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:58:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light I thought we replaced all the fuses... not sure about the big monster one, will look tonight... will also try cleaning the contacts... I think mike frank sent me a can of super cool contact cleaner a while back, will give it a shot. ;) thanx, john On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 11:14:32AM -0700, john wrote: >-->> I asked this question a while back and received an answer that >-->> was either it's no big deal or it was the glow plug relay's way >-->> of telling me that he wants to retire... >-->> >-->> anyway, it sometimes happens after a full throttle get into traffic >-->> maneuver... it's also happened while just cruising along on the freeway. >-->> >-->> thoughts, ideas? or should I just wait until the dash light burns >-->> out or it won't start in the morning? :) >-->> >-->> BTW, Paul, you'll have to see if your new 300d has the ASD. :) >--> >-->John, >--> >-->I think you're getting attacked by the fuse monster. If you're positive >-->that you replaced all the fuses recently and cleaned up the contacts, >-->including the big monster on the glow plug relay, then it is either the relay >-->itself or the logic telling the relay to kick on. Maybe pop the relay and >-->clean up its contacts? >--> >-->K >--> >-->-- >-->Kevin Pekarek >-->Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >-->Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:02:30 -0400 From: "Chmielewski Family" Subject: [db] 81 300D Knock I have an 81 non-turbo 300D that I bought as a rebuilt unit (about 90,000 miles on it) after one of the previous owners had an engine oil line break and wiped the bearings. It developed a noise after about 20,000 miles that sounded like a knock on the back of the engine. I crawled around under it trying to figure what was rapping but could only isolate it to either the back of the engine or the torque converter. Needing transportation, I kept driving it about another 10,000 miles until my wife called me from work and said it had gotten really bad. After looking at it, I had her drive it home (about 25 miles) as there was still excellent oil pressure and I didn't have anything to tow it with. It made it ok but the noise is very loud now. My best guess is that a bolt has loosened up somewhere on the torque converter and is hitting the housing. My next step is to pull the engine and start looking for a loose bolt. If that doesn't locate it, I'll pull off the oil pan. Have any of you ever run into something like this before? I don't think it a rod because of the oil pressure. If this were a Ford or Chevy, based on the noise, the rod would have come out of the side of the block by now. Is there a common failure that I should look for? I have a rotted out 80 300D with 287,000 miles on it so I have a replacement engine. However, it doesn't want to start during the winter in upstate New York and the 81 would. Thanks, Ted ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:56:48 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 81 300D Knock it could also be the vacuum pump making the noise... I got a screamin' deal on my Jeep Turbo Diesel because it sounded like it was going to put a rod through the block at any moment... :) Vacuum pump was bad... :) saved about $7000 on the Jeep as a result, cost about $50 to fix. :) john On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Chmielewski Family wrote: >-->I have an 81 non-turbo 300D that I bought as a rebuilt unit (about 90,000 >-->miles on it) after one of the previous owners had an engine oil line break and >-->wiped the bearings. It developed a noise after about 20,000 miles that sounded >-->like a knock on the back of the engine. I crawled around under it trying to >-->figure what was rapping but could only isolate it to either the back of the >-->engine or the torque converter. Needing transportation, I kept driving it >-->about another 10,000 miles until my wife called me from work and said it had >-->gotten really bad. After looking at it, I had her drive it home (about 25 >-->miles) as there was still excellent oil pressure and I didn't have anything to >-->tow it with. It made it ok but the noise is very loud now. My best guess is >-->that a bolt has loosened up somewhere on the torque converter and is hitting >-->the housing. My next step is to pull the engine and start looking for a loose >-->bolt. If that doesn't locate it, I'll pull off the oil pan. >--> >-->Have any of you ever run into something like this before? I don't think it a >-->rod because of the oil pressure. If this were a Ford or Chevy, based on the >-->noise, the rod would have come out of the side of the block by now. Is there a >-->common failure that I should look for? I have a rotted out 80 300D with >-->287,000 miles on it so I have a replacement engine. However, it doesn't want >-->to start during the winter in upstate New York and the 81 would. >--> >-->Thanks, >-->Ted >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:05:38 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: RE: [db] how disable? I would have them surrender their drivers licenses if it were me. Short of that I would get my brake bleeder pump and apply vacuum directly to the injection pump cut off under the hood, run the bypass tube and vacuum pump to the battery well. When you want to start the car release the vacuum. I had to do this to jury rig a car for a while. You will need : Brake bleeder pump, vacuum T fitting, one vacuum cap and about one meter of vacuum line. When you want to go into normal operation remove the cap and reconnect the line to the ignition switch. If you have a slow vacuum leak this will not work very well. In an attempt to start it they may toast the battery and tax the starter. They may attempt to fix it themselves breaking something else in doing so. I am thinking an "intervention" would be the least expensive/easier solution. :) Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 9/17/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:07:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] how disable? I think Derick has the better "technical" solution... Just say NO. Seemed to work ok for my kids... ;) john On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, derick wrote: >-->I would have them surrender their drivers licenses if it were me. >--> >-->Short of that I would get my brake bleeder pump and apply vacuum directly to >-->the injection pump cut off under the hood, run the bypass tube and vacuum >-->pump to the battery well. When you want to start the car release the vacuum. >-->I had to do this to jury rig a car for a while. >--> >-->You will need : Brake bleeder pump, vacuum T fitting, one vacuum cap and >-->about one meter of vacuum line. When you want to go into normal operation >-->remove the cap and reconnect the line to the ignition switch. >--> >-->If you have a slow vacuum leak this will not work very well. >-->In an attempt to start it they may toast the battery and tax the starter. >-->They may attempt to fix it themselves breaking something else in doing so. >--> >-->I am thinking an "intervention" would be the least expensive/easier >-->solution. >--> >-->:) >--> >--> >-->Derick >--> >--> >--> >-->--- >-->Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >-->Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >-->Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 9/17/2004 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:36:09 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: RE: [db] 81 300D Knock Ted, Does it get worse with higher rpm or will it smooth out? If it smoothes out I would check the rear motor mount, and the other mounts while your at it. If the motor mounts are fine, I would check the fasteners for the exhaust flange and make sure that system is secure. Then I think I would apply a vacuum to the Injection pump (to cut off the fuel) then crank the engine using the starter to see if I could better isolate it at a starter driven RPM. The same effect can be had by using a ignition trigger switch or a screwdriver to the solenoid with the key in the "off" position. You may need another body to help you. Then I would enthusiastically grab my wrenches and tear the whole engine down until I found the culprit. >:) Well... okay I would start were you heard the noise first. Then pull the pan and look for chunks and loose crank/rod fasteners. :) Good luck Derick - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 9/17/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:15:40 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light John: I had the same problem on my 190. You have a bad glow plug. The way the system works is that there are two glow plug circuits, one with two plugs and a resistor, and one with three. The relay has the smarts to compare the voltage drop across the two circuits, and will light if they are out of balance. As a plug starts to go, it's intermittent. You will find that in time, it will stay on steady, or that you can make it go away for a while by turning off the car and restarting. But it will get to be persistent. Here's the bad news. If you have a 190DT (I think you do?), then you have to remove the intake manifold to replace the plugs. Don't do one plug...it's so painful, do all of them at once. Also see if you can get access to a parts washer and clean the goop out of the manifold. And remember to pick up a new intake manifold gasket. Mike Frank At 05:05 PM 9/20/2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 11:14:32AM -0700, john wrote: > > > > anyway, it sometimes happens after a full throttle get into traffic > > maneuver... it's also happened while just cruising along on the freeway. > > > > thoughts, ideas? or should I just wait until the dash light burns > > out or it won't start in the morning? :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:40:42 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 09:15:40PM -0400, Mike Frank wrote: > I had the same problem on my 190. You have a bad glow plug. The > way the system works is that there are two glow plug circuits, one with two > plugs and a resistor, and one with three. The relay has the smarts to > compare the voltage drop across the two circuits, and will light if they > are out of balance. As a plug starts to go, it's intermittent. You will > find that in time, it will stay on steady, or that you can make it go away > for a while by turning off the car and restarting. But it will get to be > persistent. Bah. Forgot them 602s were electronics infested. > Here's the bad news. If you have a 190DT (I think you do?), then > you have to remove the intake manifold to replace the plugs. Don't do one > plug...it's so painful, do all of them at once. Also see if you can get > access to a parts washer and clean the goop out of the manifold. And > remember to pick up a new intake manifold gasket. He doesn't have a 190Dt, but he has the same engine. Last I heard, it was still in a 300D, but with John, you never know. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:37:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] 81 300D Knock Chmielewski Family wrote: > tow it with. It made it ok but the noise is very loud now. My best guess is > bolt. If that doesn't locate it, I'll pull off the oil pan. > *** My TR2 made a similar noise, located in a similar place. I rebuilt and repaired everything in sight. Yes, a complete engine rebuild. Yes, a complete transmission rebuild. Yes, a new clutch. I had overhauled everything but the diff, and it still made the noise. Finally, in desperation, I pulled the starter off, and started the engine with the starter handle ( crank ). No noise! It was the starter drive all the time. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:59:43 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light I hope Kevin is right and you're wrong... I have a 124 series, 91 300d, with the 2.5L TD... :) john Mike Frank wrote: > John: > > I had the same problem on my 190. You have a bad glow plug. The > way the system works is that there are two glow plug circuits, one with > two plugs and a resistor, and one with three. The relay has the smarts > to compare the voltage drop across the two circuits, and will light if > they are out of balance. As a plug starts to go, it's intermittent. You > will find that in time, it will stay on steady, or that you can make it > go away for a while by turning off the car and restarting. But it will > get to be persistent. > > Here's the bad news. If you have a 190DT (I think you do?), then > you have to remove the intake manifold to replace the plugs. Don't do > one plug...it's so painful, do all of them at once. Also see if you can > get access to a parts washer and clean the goop out of the manifold. And > remember to pick up a new intake manifold gasket. > > Mike Frank > > > At 05:05 PM 9/20/2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 11:14:32AM -0700, john wrote: >> > >> > anyway, it sometimes happens after a full throttle get into traffic >> > maneuver... it's also happened while just cruising along on the >> freeway. >> > >> > thoughts, ideas? or should I just wait until the dash light burns >> > out or it won't start in the morning? :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:58:56 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] how disable? I don't know... I take a different tact here... Smack them upside the head and tell them that if they take the cars again, you don't mind going *back* to prison!! ;) / > I need a trick to keep my kids from taking my diesels! I have an '83 > 240D and an '80 300D that keep running off. My teens have keys secreted > somewhere, unfortunately. > > I need a way to keep the cars from starting that is easily reversible by > me - something akin to removing the rotor from a Kettering ignition car. > Any suggestions? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:52:15 -0400 From: Paul Brown Subject: Re: [db] how disable? Alas, the vote strongly favors social controls, as contrasted with physical controls. Consequences of my poor parenting skills. Sigh. Jim Hoffman wrote: > I don't know... I take a different tact here... > > Smack them upside the head and tell them that if they take the cars > again, you don't mind going *back* to prison!! ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1563 **********************************