From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Oct 18 20:12:14 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, October 19 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1576 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... [db] Rear defogger Re: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... RE: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... RE: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] Rear defogger Re: [db] glow plug light... RE: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:47:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] glow plug light... '91 300d 2.5L TD. NOW the light doesn't come on when starting... wait a bit, start the car, a little rough, some smoke, not happy... and THEN the light comes on... recall that this is the random light coming on event... with a new twist... one that could be expensive... or at least time consuming (having to check things like glow plugs, etc...) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:01:13 -0400 From: Marc Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... Interesting, mine doesn't turn off for quite a while. In my '83 300D Turbo it's on for about 5 - 8 seconds this time of year. On the '83 300TD it stays on for well over 30 seconds. I usually crank it after 10 and it starts fine ( as long as it's not pointing up hill). Marc Z. john wrote: >'91 300d 2.5L TD. > >NOW the light doesn't come on when starting... wait a bit, >start the car, a little rough, some smoke, not happy... and >THEN the light comes on... > >recall that this is the random light coming on event... with >a new twist... one that could be expensive... or at least >time consuming (having to check things like glow plugs, etc...) > >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:10:41 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... John: Just bite the bullet and replace the plugs. It was a whole day for me removing and replacing the manifold (remember to order an intake manifold gasket), but once done you're good for 140k or so. Also gives you a chance to clean the junk out of the intake (line up someone with a parts washer if you can). Mike Frank At 08:47 PM 10/18/2004, john wrote: >recall that this is the random light coming on event... with >a new twist... one that could be expensive... or at least >time consuming (having to check things like glow plugs, etc...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:14:09 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: [db] Rear defogger Winter coming on, and I've managed to procrastinate for another year on this repair. My switch is good, relay good, and the rear grid is good. Seems to be a break in the wire somewhere on the way out back. Does anyone know where the wire runs? (This is a 190D). Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:27:46 -0700 From: Jack Tavares Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... Mike Frank wrote: > John: > > Just bite the bullet and replace the plugs. It was a whole day for me > removing and replacing the manifold (remember to order an intake > manifold gasket), but once done you're good for 140k or so. Also gives > you a chance to clean the junk out of the intake (line up someone with a > parts washer if you can). > > Mike Frank > > > At 08:47 PM 10/18/2004, john wrote: > >> recall that this is the random light coming on event... with >> a new twist... one that could be expensive... or at least >> time consuming (having to check things like glow plugs, etc...) FWIW: i replaced the glow plugs on the wifes 83 300d without removing the manifold or fuel lines. It was a PITA. Lost a lot of skin. Involved a lot of cussing and fussing, but it is possible. Not sure if I saved myself any time or trouble. - -- jack "Take care of yourself and each other" - -- Ken Saucier, aka Bronze4922. 1963-2004, RIP ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:30:46 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... Different motor. I had no trouble changing them on my '79 300CD. But the 2.5 turbo motor in the 190 is an entirely different beast. Mike Frank At 09:27 PM 10/18/2004, Jack Tavares wrote: >i replaced the glow plugs on the wifes 83 300d without >removing the manifold or fuel lines. It was a PITA. Lost a lot of skin. >Involved a lot of cussing and fussing, but it is possible. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:44:17 -0700 From: Jack Tavares Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... Mike Frank wrote: > Different motor. I had no trouble changing them on my '79 300CD. But the > 2.5 turbo motor in the 190 is an entirely different beast. > > Mike Frank > > At 09:27 PM 10/18/2004, Jack Tavares wrote: > >> i replaced the glow plugs on the wifes 83 300d without >> removing the manifold or fuel lines. It was a PITA. Lost a lot of skin. >> Involved a lot of cussing and fussing, but it is possible. huh. I thought his email said 300d. never mind - -- jack "Take care of yourself and each other" - -- Ken Saucier, aka Bronze4922. 1963-2004, RIP ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:56:36 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] glow plug light... John's IS a 300D, but not nearly the same simple beast as yours. His is a newer computerized OM603 in a W124 body where they hide the glow plugs under lots of stuff, not the exposed mechanical engineering joy that is an OM617 in a W123 body. The 2.5 in a 190D is basically the motor that John has. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 176K, spark plugs that can all be easily reached with the stock lug wrench that converts to a plug wrench from the factory toolkit > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jack Tavares > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 8:44 PM > To: Mike Frank > Cc: diesel-benz list > Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... > > > Mike Frank wrote: > > Different motor. I had no trouble changing them on my '79 > 300CD. But the > > 2.5 turbo motor in the 190 is an entirely different beast. > > > > Mike Frank > > > > At 09:27 PM 10/18/2004, Jack Tavares wrote: > > > >> i replaced the glow plugs on the wifes 83 300d without > >> removing the manifold or fuel lines. It was a PITA. Lost a lot of skin. > >> Involved a lot of cussing and fussing, but it is possible. > > huh. I thought his email said 300d. never mind > > -- > jack > "Take care of yourself and each other" > -- Ken Saucier, aka Bronze4922. 1963-2004, RIP ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:08:16 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... Guys, Before doing anything expensive, least of all skinning knuckles, I would unplug, clean and re-connect all electrical connections, relays and wires related to the glow plug control circuit. The way the symptom is described seems to be a classic case of corroded contacts. The vibration of the hard starting engine makes the light turn on.......just a thought that may save a lot of grief and it is a cheap starting point. Edward Alec Cordova wrote: >John's IS a 300D, but not nearly the same simple beast as yours. His is a >newer computerized OM603 in a W124 body where they hide the glow plugs under >lots of stuff, not the exposed mechanical engineering joy that is an OM617 >in a W123 body. The 2.5 in a 190D is basically the motor that John has. > >Alec Cordova >Taylor, Texas >89 300CE, 176K, spark plugs that can all be easily reached with the stock >lug wrench that converts to a plug wrench from the factory toolkit > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jack Tavares >>Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 8:44 PM >>To: Mike Frank >>Cc: diesel-benz list >>Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... >> >> >>Mike Frank wrote: >> >> >>>Different motor. I had no trouble changing them on my '79 >>> >>> >>300CD. But the >> >> >>>2.5 turbo motor in the 190 is an entirely different beast. >>> >>>Mike Frank >>> >>>At 09:27 PM 10/18/2004, Jack Tavares wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>i replaced the glow plugs on the wifes 83 300d without >>>>removing the manifold or fuel lines. It was a PITA. Lost a lot of skin. >>>>Involved a lot of cussing and fussing, but it is possible. >>>> >>>> >>huh. I thought his email said 300d. never mind >> >>-- >>jack >>"Take care of yourself and each other" >>-- Ken Saucier, aka Bronze4922. 1963-2004, RIP ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:27:46 -0700 From: "derick amburgey" Subject: RE: [db] glow plug light... I agree Edward, the same thing happened on my 190d, moreover; my socket shells became loose. I had to clean/disassemble the plug and apply a gentle crimp to them. With all the socket shells "adjusted" the car has been running trouble free for 2 years. The vibration of the engine takes a toll. On my VW diesel I have had to use blue thread locker on most of my fasteners. Proper torque helps but they will loosen over time. My Benz is a little more cushioned but it still shakes. Now I know how the Harley guys feel. ;) Derick <<<<< Guys, Before doing anything expensive, least of all skinning knuckles, I would unplug, clean and re-connect all electrical connections, relays and wires related to the glow plug control circuit. The way the symptom is described seems to be a classic case of corroded contacts. The vibration of the hard starting engine makes the light turn on.......just a thought that may save a lot of grief and it is a cheap starting point. Edward >>>>>> - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:55:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... well mine is usually on for just a few seconds... but I can tell it's not glowing... it was in the 40's here this morning, still started, but it complained about it a bit. ;) john On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Marc wrote: >-->Interesting, mine doesn't turn off for quite a while. In my '83 300D Turbo >-->it's on for about 5 - 8 seconds this time of year. On the '83 300TD it >-->stays on for well over 30 seconds. I usually crank it after 10 and it >-->starts >-->fine ( as long as it's not pointing up hill). >--> >-->Marc Z. >--> >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>'91 300d 2.5L TD. >-->> >-->>NOW the light doesn't come on when starting... wait a bit, >-->>start the car, a little rough, some smoke, not happy... and >-->>THEN the light comes on... >-->> >-->>recall that this is the random light coming on event... with >-->>a new twist... one that could be expensive... or at least >-->>time consuming (having to check things like glow plugs, etc...) >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:56:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... I wonder if my 2.5L will be that hard... hmmm... guess I'll go out in the carport, pop the hood and check... stand by... ;) john On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Mike Frank wrote: >-->John: >--> >-->Just bite the bullet and replace the plugs. It was a whole day for me >-->removing and replacing the manifold (remember to order an intake manifold >-->gasket), but once done you're good for 140k or so. Also gives you a chance >-->to clean the junk out of the intake (line up someone with a parts washer if >-->you can). >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> >--> >-->At 08:47 PM 10/18/2004, john wrote: >--> >-->>recall that this is the random light coming on event... with >-->>a new twist... one that could be expensive... or at least >-->>time consuming (having to check things like glow plugs, etc...) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:01:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Rear defogger seems to me the wiring ran under the driver's seat and up the rear shelf that way... on my 124 there is a "nexus" of wires/solenoids under the rear pass seat. this is where i plan on throwing a switch to engage the rear locker as a means of saving $480 on the ASD control module that got fried helping a friend with a jump start... :) john On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Mike Frank wrote: >-->Winter coming on, and I've managed to procrastinate for another year on >-->this repair. My switch is good, relay good, and the rear grid is good. >-->Seems to be a break in the wire somewhere on the way out back. Does anyone >-->know where the wire runs? (This is a 190D). >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:02:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... yes, it's a 124 300d, '91... new fangled 2.5L Turbo Diesel... amazing little 5 cylinder... almost the same displacement as the 123 240d, but that thing will blow the doors off of honda civics... ;) 0 to 60 in around 12 seconds... faster than some of my FSJ's! with orders of magnitude better fuel economy too. ;) john On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Jack Tavares wrote: >-->Mike Frank wrote: >-->> Different motor. I had no trouble changing them on my '79 300CD. But the >-->> 2.5 turbo motor in the 190 is an entirely different beast. >-->> >-->> Mike Frank >-->> >-->> At 09:27 PM 10/18/2004, Jack Tavares wrote: >-->> >-->>> i replaced the glow plugs on the wifes 83 300d without >-->>> removing the manifold or fuel lines. It was a PITA. Lost a lot of skin. >-->>> Involved a lot of cussing and fussing, but it is possible. >--> >-->huh. I thought his email said 300d. never mind >--> >-->-- >-->jack >-->"Take care of yourself and each other" >-->-- Ken Saucier, aka Bronze4922. 1963-2004, RIP >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:10:40 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] glow plug light... oh crap. Mike is 100% correct... it's as bad as he described it... I guess I'll pick up a set of 5 glow plugs and do some horsetradin' with a mechanic friend who is out of work. ;) Looks like I'll be driving the GMC Jimmy a couple of days... and my daughter's pontiac, and maybe the wife's WJ... ;) john On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->John's IS a 300D, but not nearly the same simple beast as yours. His is a >-->newer computerized OM603 in a W124 body where they hide the glow plugs under >-->lots of stuff, not the exposed mechanical engineering joy that is an OM617 >-->in a W123 body. The 2.5 in a 190D is basically the motor that John has. >--> >-->Alec Cordova >-->Taylor, Texas >-->89 300CE, 176K, spark plugs that can all be easily reached with the stock >-->lug wrench that converts to a plug wrench from the factory toolkit >--> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jack Tavares >-->> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 8:44 PM >-->> To: Mike Frank >-->> Cc: diesel-benz list >-->> Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... >-->> >-->> >-->> Mike Frank wrote: >-->> > Different motor. I had no trouble changing them on my '79 >-->> 300CD. But the >-->> > 2.5 turbo motor in the 190 is an entirely different beast. >-->> > >-->> > Mike Frank >-->> > >-->> > At 09:27 PM 10/18/2004, Jack Tavares wrote: >-->> > >-->> >> i replaced the glow plugs on the wifes 83 300d without >-->> >> removing the manifold or fuel lines. It was a PITA. Lost a lot of skin. >-->> >> Involved a lot of cussing and fussing, but it is possible. >-->> >-->> huh. I thought his email said 300d. never mind >-->> >-->> -- >-->> jack >-->> "Take care of yourself and each other" >-->> -- Ken Saucier, aka Bronze4922. 1963-2004, RIP >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:11:30 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... no problem with starting, good compression... but this glow plug light has been bugging me for almost a year now... Mike Frank went through the same thing with his 190D... john On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->Guys, >--> >-->Before doing anything expensive, least of all skinning knuckles, I would >-->unplug, clean and re-connect all electrical connections, relays and >-->wires related to the glow plug control circuit. The way the symptom is >-->described seems to be a classic case of corroded contacts. The vibration >-->of the hard starting engine makes the light turn on.......just a thought >-->that may save a lot of grief and it is a cheap starting point. >--> >-->Edward >--> >-->Alec Cordova wrote: >--> >-->>John's IS a 300D, but not nearly the same simple beast as yours. His is a >-->>newer computerized OM603 in a W124 body where they hide the glow plugs under >-->>lots of stuff, not the exposed mechanical engineering joy that is an OM617 >-->>in a W123 body. The 2.5 in a 190D is basically the motor that John has. >-->> >-->>Alec Cordova >-->>Taylor, Texas >-->>89 300CE, 176K, spark plugs that can all be easily reached with the stock >-->>lug wrench that converts to a plug wrench from the factory toolkit >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>>-----Original Message----- >-->>>From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->>>[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jack Tavares >-->>>Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 8:44 PM >-->>>To: Mike Frank >-->>>Cc: diesel-benz list >-->>>Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... >-->>> >-->>> >-->>>Mike Frank wrote: >-->>> >-->>> >-->>>>Different motor. I had no trouble changing them on my '79 >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>>300CD. But the >-->>> >-->>> >-->>>>2.5 turbo motor in the 190 is an entirely different beast. >-->>>> >-->>>>Mike Frank >-->>>> >-->>>>At 09:27 PM 10/18/2004, Jack Tavares wrote: >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>>>>i replaced the glow plugs on the wifes 83 300d without >-->>>>>removing the manifold or fuel lines. It was a PITA. Lost a lot of skin. >-->>>>>Involved a lot of cussing and fussing, but it is possible. >-->>>>> >-->>>>> >-->>>huh. I thought his email said 300d. never mind >-->>> >-->>>-- >-->>>jack >-->>>"Take care of yourself and each other" >-->>>-- Ken Saucier, aka Bronze4922. 1963-2004, RIP >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1576 **********************************