From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Oct 19 23:17:06 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, October 20 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1577 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] glow plug light... RE: [db] glow plug light... RE: [db] glow plug light... RE: [db] glow plug light... RE: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... Re: [db] glow plug light... [db] adventures in Seattle... Fw: [db] glow plug light... [db] Biodiesel in Austin Re: [db] adventures in Seattle... [db] 300D Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:39:12 -0400 From: "Cool" Subject: RE: [db] glow plug light... John - This is an probably easy fix, don't sweat it yet. I think that I can get you going again for 20 bucks... In the 124, if the light comes on after it is started, there is probably one bad glow plug. Unlike the older 123's, the 124 daisy chains all the plugs together. If one plug is burned out, the controller senses the fault and doesn't light any of them and the dash light comes on after the engine is started to show a problem. To figure out which one, you need to put an ohm meter on each one to figure out where the oddball is. This is VERY easy: 1 - locate the black box aft of the ABS controller on the drivers side inner fender. 2 - remove the snap on cover - it will take some yanking because of stuff in the way, but it will come off. 3 - unplug the large connector. notice that there are five wires, and one open hole. each wire goes to a glow plug. 4 - from the wire connector, test the resistance of all five to ground. normally operating glow plugs will read almost 0 resistance. The bad one will stand out with a high reading. 5 - replace the bad one. all are changeable without taking the intake off, although it is a challenge on a few. hopefully your bad apple is one of the more accessible ones. I would bother to do all of them, but that's just me. Buy an extra one an keep it on the shelf for the next time. I changed one about a year ago and have been all set since. Good luck - and send me your phone number off list and I'll call you.... (free long distance!) Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:37:06 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] glow plug light... this is a GREAT write up... very cool. I think I'm going to have a mechanic friend come over and do them all, and replace the intake manifold gasket and clean it up as well, notice some crud building up... but I still appreciate the details, didn't know that before! john On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Cool wrote: >--> >-->John - >--> >-->This is an probably easy fix, don't sweat it yet. I think that I can get >-->you going again for 20 bucks... >--> >-->In the 124, if the light comes on after it is started, there is probably one >-->bad glow plug. Unlike the older 123's, the 124 daisy chains all the plugs >-->together. If one plug is burned out, the controller senses the fault and >-->doesn't light any of them and the dash light comes on after the engine is >-->started to show a problem. To figure out which one, you need to put an ohm >-->meter on each one to figure out where the oddball is. This is VERY easy: >--> >-->1 - locate the black box aft of the ABS controller on the drivers side inner >-->fender. >--> >-->2 - remove the snap on cover - it will take some yanking because of stuff in >-->the way, but it will come off. >--> >-->3 - unplug the large connector. notice that there are five wires, and one >-->open hole. each wire goes to a glow plug. >--> >-->4 - from the wire connector, test the resistance of all five to ground. >-->normally operating glow plugs will read almost 0 resistance. The bad one >-->will stand out with a high reading. >--> >-->5 - replace the bad one. all are changeable without taking the intake off, >-->although it is a challenge on a few. hopefully your bad apple is one of the >-->more accessible ones. >--> >-->I would bother to do all of them, but that's just me. Buy an extra one an >-->keep it on the shelf for the next time. I changed one about a year ago and >-->have been all set since. >--> >-->Good luck - and send me your phone number off list and I'll call you.... >-->(free long distance!) >--> >-->Fred >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 06:17:23 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: RE: [db] glow plug light... I believe this procedure is also the way to check any of my MB Diesels. Greg At 09:39 PM 10/18/2004 , Cool wrote: >John - > >This is an probably easy fix, don't sweat it yet. I think that I can get >you going again for 20 bucks... > >In the 124, if the light comes on after it is started, there is probably one >bad glow plug. Unlike the older 123's, the 124 daisy chains all the plugs >together. If one plug is burned out, the controller senses the fault and >doesn't light any of them and the dash light comes on after the engine is >started to show a problem. To figure out which one, you need to put an ohm >meter on each one to figure out where the oddball is. This is VERY easy: > >1 - locate the black box aft of the ABS controller on the drivers side inner >fender. > >2 - remove the snap on cover - it will take some yanking because of stuff in >the way, but it will come off. > >3 - unplug the large connector. notice that there are five wires, and one >open hole. each wire goes to a glow plug. > >4 - from the wire connector, test the resistance of all five to ground. >normally operating glow plugs will read almost 0 resistance. The bad one >will stand out with a high reading. > >5 - replace the bad one. all are changeable without taking the intake off, >although it is a challenge on a few. hopefully your bad apple is one of the >more accessible ones. > >I would bother to do all of them, but that's just me. Buy an extra one an >keep it on the shelf for the next time. I changed one about a year ago and >have been all set since. > >Good luck - and send me your phone number off list and I'll call you.... >(free long distance!) > >Fred > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004 Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '86 300SDL Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:21:45 US/Eastern From: mfrank-at-westnet.com Subject: RE: [db] glow plug light... I think the 124 is similar to the 201. The plugs are NOT daisy chained, but rather in two parallel groups...one has three plugs, the other two. The current drain through the two groups is compared by the control unit, and if one isn't 2/3 of the other, the light will work backwards. That is to say, the light will be dark when you are glowing the plugs, but will light when you are underway. Mike Frank Unlike the older 123's, the 124 daisy chains all the plugs > >together. If one plug is burned out, the controller senses the fault and > >doesn't light any of them and the dash light comes on after the engine is > >started to show a problem. To figure out which one, you need to put an ohm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:53:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] glow plug light... so that also explains why it only seemed like a couple of cylinders weren't working... despite a damp and dreary 45 degree Seattle morning, it did start... :) I think it's a pretty good test of a Diesel's compression to cold start without the glow plugs... if it starts, hey, it's got compression... ;) john On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 mfrank-at-westnet.com wrote: >-->I think the 124 is similar to the 201. The plugs are NOT daisy chained, but >-->rather in two parallel groups...one has three plugs, the other two. The >-->current drain through the two groups is compared by the control unit, and if >-->one isn't 2/3 of the other, the light will work backwards. That is to say, the >-->light will be dark when you are glowing the plugs, but will light when you are >-->underway. >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> >--> >--> Unlike the older 123's, the 124 daisy chains all the plugs >-->> >together. If one plug is burned out, the controller senses the fault and >-->> >doesn't light any of them and the dash light comes on after the engine is >-->> >started to show a problem. To figure out which one, you need to put an >-->ohm >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:01:27 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:56:36PM -0500, Alec Cordova wrote: > John's IS a 300D, but not nearly the same simple beast as yours. His is a > newer computerized OM603 in a W124 body where they hide the glow plugs under > lots of stuff, not the exposed mechanical engineering joy that is an OM617 > in a W123 body. The 2.5 in a 190D is basically the motor that John has. John's 300D is one of the 2.5s, so it basically is the same OM602 (with minor differences) as Mike's 190Dt. Even the non-turbo 601s tend to hide some stuff under the intake that is difficult to get to without an assortment of universal joints, a few crowsfoot wrenches, and long and skinny fingers. > Alec Cordova > Taylor, Texas > 89 300CE, 176K, spark plugs that can all be easily reached with the stock > lug wrench that converts to a plug wrench from the factory toolkit Now that's cool. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 85 190D (601, 5spd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:53:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->> Alec Cordova >-->> Taylor, Texas >-->> 89 300CE, 176K, spark plugs that can all be easily reached with the stock >-->> lug wrench that converts to a plug wrench from the factory toolkit >--> >-->Now that's cool. >-->K spark plugs? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:07:43 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 01:53:52PM -0700, john wrote: > spark plugs? Yes, you know, those things in your WJ? :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:02:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light... On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 01:53:52PM -0700, john wrote: >-->> spark plugs? >--> >-->Yes, you know, those things in your WJ? :) >-->K really? I must look again... I didn't see any wires going to anything on the engine... hmmm... I guess it's not a Diesel since we put this really smelly stuff in it... takes a lot of it too... I think they call it gasoline... I call it nasty... the stuff will dissolve rubber gloves in a nanosecond... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:23:13 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] adventures in Seattle... had lunch with dan from chicago and a handful of benz owners, I think only one other Diesel guy... really nice 300D. :) tanked up tonight at $2.439!!! what's up with this? got over 30mpg so it's not terribly painful, but why is Diesel so much more than unleaded? Unleaded was $2.029. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:14:01 -0700 From: "Paul Masterson" Subject: Fw: [db] glow plug light... My w116 300sd has been acting odd in the last week. Once the glow light stayed on after starting, so I turned it off and waited when it restarted, everything was normal. This morning, my glow plug was blinking at me, instead of glowing steady, she still started right up, but it doesn't really get that cold in october around Seattle. I will take some readings this weekend, but does anyone know how my plugs will be wired? two and three? daisy chained? And what is with the blinking? That has got to be trying to tell me something, but I didn't find anything in the old owner's manual. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:17:46 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" Subject: [db] Biodiesel in Austin Today I found a Biodiesel distributor in Austin, Texas. I'm excited. Have never been interested in mucking around, cooking lye mixtures in my back yard to produce it myself. Have been filtering WVO when I have the time and energy but that, too, is messy--if less dangerous. Am very pleased with the biodiesel, if not ecstatic about the price ($3.40/gal). Also wish they were not on opposite side of town from me (Onion Creek--I'm north). More than an hour's drive just to tank up is a bit of a disincentive. When 'premium' petro-diesel went over $2/gal, I started buying the cheap (not even!) stuff. My 300D started pinging. Went back to premium. It kept pinging. Began to worry that my timing chain had stretched so much, IP was out of time or maybe whole engine was a goner. Today, after adding enough biodiesel to make 20-30% mix, my engine began to purr again. Non-diesel fans might not consider the sounds my car makes a 'purr' but it was music to my ears. I guess biodiesel has higher cetane than cheap petro-diesel. I also guess that 'premium' petro-diesel isn't very 'premium' these days, despite costing as much as it does. The price is closing on biodiesel fast. If interested, check http://www.austinbiofuels.com/. Cheers, Sam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:21:39 -0700 From: "Paul Masterson" Subject: Re: [db] adventures in Seattle... > had lunch with dan from chicago and a handful of benz owners, > I think only one other Diesel guy... really nice 300D. :) > > tanked up tonight at $2.439!!! what's up with this? got > over 30mpg so it's not terribly painful, but why is Diesel > so much more than unleaded? Unleaded was $2.029. This has been under discussion in rec.autos.mercedes, the consensus is that home heating oil season is pushing the price up. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:00:18 -0700 From: Chuck Subject: [db] 300D Hi I have a 309D with the 300 D engine (euro 88hp) . I seem to remember that MBZ started using just one block sometime and all engfines after came with piston oilers. OR I could be wrong I would like to fit The turbo to my engine but do not want to melt pistons - is there anyway to find out if my block has them ( with out pulling the pan ) Thanks Chuck Presnail ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1577 **********************************