From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Oct 23 18:20:55 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, October 24 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1584 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Fw: [Jeep Comanche] Diesel Comanche Progress (fwd) [db] Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toured, and a Passat [db] a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... [db] Re: xj: Re: a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:22:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Fw: [Jeep Comanche] Diesel Comanche Progress (fwd) jim blair forwarded this to me... thought I'd share it as well. the Jeep comanche is an "MJ". It's built on the XJ platform but the back half is a pickup without the uniframe. I've had one, they're not too bad at all. I'm very interested in how this comes out because I'd like to do this conversion on an nice XJ some day. In the next year or two, maybe, after Superdawg is done, I'm thinking that it would be fun to put something unique on top of this '83 GMC Jimmy 6.2L Diesel frame/driveline... I think it has a 106" wheelbase... I think a 300CD would fit, but it's not very practical being a 2dr... ;) Ideas? :) A Gremlin would be very cool... could stretch/shrink the frame a bit... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vee Dubb" To: Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: [Jeep Comanche] Diesel Comanche Progress Well, after the head-scratching and knuckle busting, everything seems to be in order. Many folks really disagree with my approach on certain aspects of this project, and many more have shown a great deal of interest, and thankfully, their support. I have the OM617 Mercedes Benz 3.0L I-5 turbo diesel engine and four- speed auto trans physically mounted in the truck using stock mercedes mounts and fabricated engine brackets and mounting plates. The stock jeep tranny cross-member is kept, using yet another mercedes engine mount as tranny mount. (these things are heavy duty) Clearances for the engine and transmission are adequate. It looks as though I still have plenty of room to run 3" exhaust from the turbo chunk (rear output) out to the back of the truck. Merc stock intake setup will be replaced with a simple cone filter banded to the turbo intake until better accomodations can be made (fresh air intake preferrably, intercooler is a no-go). With a bit of sheet metal removed from the core support, I have fitted the mercedes radiator and oil cooler (mounted side by side, oil cooler is as tall as radiator) and the merc fan shroud fit's perfectly. I will even be able to retain stock merc hoses. Steering has definately proved to be a difficult issue. Because of decision to keep A/C, and use the turbo vs. non-turbo, there's only one setup and that is the gm style pancake compressor, mounted on the block where the steering box once protruded. In place of the jeeps steering, a mustang's rack and pinion has been fitted. Alignment is extremely promising, though turn radius looks like it may be sacrificed a bit. still working on stabilizing the axle. A stump jumper will be fashioned to protect the r&p. It will run from the fabricated lower radiator support to the r&p crossmember. This will also add alot of needed rigidity to the crossmember. Finally test drove the donor motor and it's SUPER strong, no blow by, and most amazingly, it's clean. Literally, the motor is clean, meaning it's dry. If this doesn't amaze you, let me elaborate. This is a 1977 Merc 300SD with over a quarter-million miles showing that after sitting for over 6 months, started first time and immediately idled out. Other than some mild seepage from the filter housing, it's dry. Even the injectors are dry. This is very rare in the diesel world. The tranny is nice and strong, though it is in need of a detent adjustment. I can do this after the fact, once it's in the truck. The mercedes shifter and linkage will be retained, mounting the shifter in the jeep's t-case shifter hole. Wow, imagine that, room for cup-holders where the old stick used to be. Fuel lines have not been run yet, though all rubber lines will have to be changed with diesel-immune lines. I have yet to determine if the jeep fuel sending unit will be usable, or if the diesel will eat it up. Since I am using matching motor and tranny, and (hopefully) the same final drive ratio, I will most probably convert the entire mercedes cluster to fit the mj dash. 2-1/8 autometers will be used in the mean time until they are replaced with the mercedes speedo, tach, oil press, coolant temp, and hopefully, the fuel guage. Not 100% on that last one. Some suspension issues need to be worked out. I'd like about 3" lift on the front, and an inch in the rear. Not sure how I'm going to accomplish either at this moment in time. The drive shaft still needs to be figured out so that we can have it made. This will be the only part of the project that gets "subbed-out" to someone else. I'll leave driveshafts to the professionals. I've been building project vehicles (mostly vw's) for years. This is the only time I have been truly excited about one. Not even my turbo- diesel caddy (1982 vw rabbit pickup) project thrilled me this much. I hope to have the details worked out soon, my wife has been excruciatingly patient so far. This project has kept us apart for way too long, but she understands, and approves, and supports my endeavors. It's good to be me. I'm a lucky man. Oh, and I have a jeep, too. - -Steven - ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Autos. Everything you need to know about buying or selling a car. FREE Quotes, 3600 Tours, Research, Blue Book, Compare Vehicles, Buy Used http://us.click.yahoo.com/kEZsdA/bwnGAA/YiGOAA/unTolB/TM - --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jeepcomanche/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: jeepcomanche-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:11:53 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toured, and a Passat On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Bear wrote: >-->What do you think about the rubican? http://www.jeep.com/wrangler/models/rubicon.html cool.... Dana 44's fore & aft... limited/locking axles, 4wd discs... coils are fine, makes it somewhat easier to lift... 4.0L, sweetest motor ever put in a Jeep. I'd say two thumbs up. This looks like a winner. Real axles, a solid motor, and a legendary body style. I've driven some of the newer Wranglers, but I haven't been a fan of bob tails before, but this does seem like a good Jeep, and far better than the KJ or the WK(?) or whatever they're calling the Dodgized(bast....zed) version of the Grand Cherokee... However, for the bucks, I'd say start out with the SE and build it yourself. Although I don't think you can add the Dana 44 axles... :( http://www-5.jeep.com/vehsuite/VehicleCompare.jsp Upgrade to the 4.0L and buy your own lockers... compare the details of what the Rubicon offers and check aftermarket components. Even buying used axles and doing the swap might cost less than buying the "special"... The Rubicon lists at $28k, and for that you could buy a nice XJ and spend some money on upgrading it, or even a WJ, although a WJ wouldn't be as good offroad as the XJ. XJ's can be setup to perform better than a stock TJ with more comfort and convenience. It's been said many times before, Jeeps are built, not bought... maybe it's because real Jeepers can't afford to buy a brand spankin' new Jeep and trash it... so we buy what we can afford, build it to do what we want, THEN trash it. :) Either way, getting a 4.0L I-6 in anything with a Jeep badge is a good move. Unfortunately the wizards at DC have opted to move to the pathetic 3.7L V6, I drove one in a KJ and found it quite anemic. The 4.0L I-6 in my '99 WJ is quite acceptable. The 3.7V6 is a derivative of the 4.7L V8, which is one of the sweetest V8's I've ever owned, worked on or driven. If I had the bucks and wasn't concerned about fuel economy I'd be dropping a WJ driveline into my '83 J10 instead of a '96 XJ 4.0L driveline. :) I'll take a closer look at the TJs. Might even test drive one... like I said, never had a bobtail... tried to look at one that had a Diesel conversion, but never met up with the guy... If I could find one with a Diesel that had the creature comforts I'd get it... :) let me know if you get one of these things! :) john >-->On 10/22/04 12:04 AM, "john" wrote: >--> >-->> Got my invite in the mail to see the new Grand Cherokee, so I made >-->Thank you for your time and consideration... >--> >--> >-->Bear >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:32:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... While the Liberty is butt ugly and has a few other oddities and inconveniences, two things lean in it's favor: it's a Jeep and it's soon to have a Diesel. A Common-Rail Diesel... 2.8L Turbo Diesel... :) Found this blurb: "Jeep Liberty will be available with a 2.8-liter common rail diesel (CRD) engine for the first time in the United States and Canada. The 2.8-liter CRD is rated at an estimated 160 horsepower (120 kW) at 3800 rpm and with 295 lb.-ft. (400 N.m) at 1800 rpm, providing class-leading torque and towing capability. Diesel engines offer another option for increased torque, towing and range, while improving fuel economy an average of 25 percent and reducing CO2 emissions by an average of 20 percent. The diesel engine will be available on both Sport and Limited models." from: http://www.wforum.com/waf/posts/42284.shtml Also, when I test drove a KJ I found it rode nicer than the WJ and was quieter... although it had a softer handling feel to it than the XJ or the WJ. No solid front axle, but then again the new GC doesn't either... :( If that 2.8L V6 CRD can tow my trailer* gets at least 28mpg in town, comes with an Automatic and decent features... I could see getting rid of my '91 300d, my '83 GMC Jimmy, a few of my "older" FSJs, and even my '99 WJ... although that will be a hard one since it's not really "mine". ;) * (trailer: 1975 J10 long bed box equipped with dual hydraulic cylinders as a dump bed that weighs 1,990 empty... the trailer has a Model 20 rear axle that's been gutted and equipped with hydraulic surge DISC brakes http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/J10-trailer/ http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/trailer-in-use-1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/trailer-xj-1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/xj-trailer-loaded-at-home.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/compost-dump.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/loaded-with-gravel.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/unloading-trees.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/washing-trailer-4sep04.jpg) I've never had a new vehicle... love Diesels and love Jeeps. I think the pricing on this vehicle will be a bit more realistic than the Toureg. If it's under $30k and I can figure a way of swinging the payments... hmmm, wait, if I teach part time I've got it covered... ;) sure, lets take a second job for a new jeep... why not... ;) We'll see... can't really afford it... but can afford to look. ;) It's fun... :) I could see just two vehicles in the drive... the '99 WJ and a Diesel powered 4x4 with luxury appointments... we'll see how this plays out... :) (Still keeping my eyes open for a Diesel Blazer/Tahoe/Yukon...) from the jeep website: (oh, btw, couldn't get that jeep grand cherokee thing to play in netscape or ie... downloaded windows player 10 even... :( http://www.jeep.com/crd/index.html The 2.8L Common-Rail Diesel I-4 Engine with best-in-class available torque. # the fuel economy of an I-4 # the acceleration of a V6 # the torque output of a V8 How did we make Jeep Liberty more capable than ever? Three letters: CRD. CRD stands for Common Rail Diesel - an all-new, second-generation diesel engine that can be found at the heart of the Jeep Liberty CRD, available later this year. Forget everything you remember about the diesels of old. later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:17:47 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: xj: Re: a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... well, from a standpoint of having a nice daily Diesel driver that can tow my trailer every now and then, get good mileage and is a 4x4 would consolidate two of my vehicles into one. I have two Diesels now... the Jimmy and the Benz... the KJ is goofy looking, but it is nice to drive, it's supposedly good for wheeling, but I'm not going to buy a new Jeep and wheel it... I've yet to see a Jeep that wasn't decent off road in stock trim, so despite the obvious issues of independent suspension it's still worth considering... A Diesel XJ would be my first choice... the XJ was the best all around Jeep every made. It did everything well. john On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Aaron Storms wrote: >-->The few lifted Liberty's I've seen looked pretty decent, but the reviews >-->I've read about the work that went into them to develop a custom lift, a >-->front solid axle swap, and all the other goodies would make it hard to >-->justify building one anytime soon. Aaron >--> >-->Aaron Storms, Publisher >-->Gilpin County News >-->PO Box 93 >-->Black Hawk, CO 80422 >-->303.582.0133 >-->aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: "full size jeep list" ; "xj-list" ; >-->"diesel-benz list" >-->Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:32 PM >-->Subject: xj: a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... >--> >--> >-->> While the Liberty is butt ugly and has a few other >-->> oddities and inconveniences, two things lean in it's >-->> favor: it's a Jeep and it's soon to have a Diesel. >-->> A Common-Rail Diesel... 2.8L Turbo Diesel... :) >-->> >-->> Found this blurb: >-->> "Jeep Liberty will be available with a 2.8-liter common rail diesel >-->> (CRD) engine for the first time in the United States and Canada. >-->> The 2.8-liter CRD is rated at an estimated 160 horsepower (120 kW) >-->> at 3800 rpm and with 295 lb.-ft. (400 N.m) at 1800 rpm, providing >-->> class-leading torque and towing capability. Diesel engines offer >-->> another option for increased torque, towing and range, while >-->> improving fuel economy an average of 25 percent and reducing >-->> CO2 emissions by an average of 20 percent. The diesel engine >-->> will be available on both Sport and Limited models." >-->> from: http://www.wforum.com/waf/posts/42284.shtml >-->> >-->> Also, when I test drove a KJ I found it rode nicer than >-->> the WJ and was quieter... although it had a softer handling >-->> feel to it than the XJ or the WJ. No solid front axle, >-->> but then again the new GC doesn't either... :( >-->> >-->> If that 2.8L V6 CRD can tow my trailer* gets at least 28mpg in town, >-->> comes with an Automatic and decent features... I could see getting >-->> rid of my '91 300d, my '83 GMC Jimmy, a few of my "older" FSJs, >-->> and even my '99 WJ... although that will be a hard one since >-->> it's not really "mine". ;) >-->> >-->> * (trailer: 1975 J10 long bed box equipped with dual hydraulic cylinders >-->> as a dump bed that weighs 1,990 empty... the trailer has a >-->> Model 20 rear axle that's been gutted and equipped with hydraulic >-->> surge DISC brakes http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/J10-trailer/ >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/trailer-in-use-1.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/trailer-xj-1.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/xj-trailer-loaded-at-home.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/compost-dump.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/loaded-with-gravel.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/unloading-trees.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/washing-trailer-4sep04.jpg) >-->> >-->> I've never had a new vehicle... love Diesels and love Jeeps. >-->> >-->> I think the pricing on this vehicle will be a bit more realistic >-->> than the Toureg. If it's under $30k and I can figure a way of >-->> swinging the payments... hmmm, wait, if I teach part time I've >-->> got it covered... ;) sure, lets take a second job for a new >-->> jeep... why not... ;) >-->> >-->> We'll see... can't really afford it... but can afford to look. ;) >-->> It's fun... :) >-->> >-->> I could see just two vehicles in the drive... the '99 WJ and >-->> a Diesel powered 4x4 with luxury appointments... we'll see how >-->> this plays out... :) (Still keeping my eyes open for a Diesel >-->> Blazer/Tahoe/Yukon...) >-->> >-->> >-->> from the jeep website: >-->> (oh, btw, couldn't get that jeep grand cherokee thing to play >-->> in netscape or ie... downloaded windows player 10 even... :( >-->> >-->> http://www.jeep.com/crd/index.html >-->> >-->> The 2.8L Common-Rail Diesel I-4 Engine with best-in-class available >-->> torque. >-->> >-->> # the fuel economy of an I-4 >-->> # the acceleration of a V6 >-->> # the torque output of a V8 >-->> >-->> How did we make Jeep Liberty more capable than ever? Three letters: CRD. >-->> >-->> CRD stands for Common Rail Diesel - an all-new, second-generation diesel >-->> engine >-->> that can be found at the heart of the Jeep Liberty CRD, available later >-->> this year. >-->> Forget everything you remember about the diesels of old. >-->> >-->> >-->> later, >-->> john >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1584 **********************************