From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Nov 2 13:46:35 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, November 2 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1595 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] 190D schematics Re: [db] 190D schematics [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster Re: [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster Re: [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster Re: [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster Re: [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg [db] [Fwd: Ford Europe] Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg [db] 190D rpm Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:07:52 -0600 From: Subject: RE: [db] 190D schematics Benz motors are designed to cruise pretty much all day at top speed. Your motor is really quite happy spinning away. It also helps keep things clear (intakes, injectors, etc.) to run like that. It's just a different approach from the American standard. Even my 89 300CE with the M103 3 liter straight 6 gasser does around 3000 rpm near 70 mph, and it's supposed to top out at almost 140mph. Cruising near 4000 rpm puts me at 90-ish, and the car seems quite happy with that, assuming conditions are appropriate, of course. ;-) I also suspect that Kevin is right about the minimal power available below 2500. But a five-speed swap wouldn't change much, since top gear ratio would probably be identical. Now maybe if you swapped in a five speed AND modified the rear axle ratio... Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 177K - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of scott_haaland-at-agilent.com Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 3:36 PM To: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net; scott_haaland-at-agilent.com Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: [db] 190D schematics K, I don't drive 80 mph all the time!! Just when I know a big hill is coming up....when properly prepared, I can maintain 60 mph going up the Folsom Hill to El Dorodo Hills (or up the Sunol Grade on 680 South), as long as I crank her up to 80 mph first. Otherwise, I end up shifting down at 50 mph before I get to the top. However, I did get 31 mpg on my last trip down to the bay area, and I was probably going between 75 and 80 most of the way...I decided I was in more of a hurry than I was interested in saving a few bucks. It doesn't seem to make much difference if I go 70 or 77...maybe 1 or 2 mpg at the most. I guess the only time you'd really need an OD is when you're above 75 mph, but it feels like it's going to blow up at 80 mph without one!! Nothing like my 89' Mustang 5.0L used to be :) ;) Scott "I can't drive 55" Haaland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:15:19 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] 190D schematics On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 04:07:52PM -0600, Alec_Cordova-at-Dell.com wrote: > I also suspect that Kevin is right about the minimal power available > below 2500. But a five-speed swap wouldn't change much, since top gear > ratio would probably be identical. Now maybe if you swapped in a five > speed AND modified the rear axle ratio... Well, if the automatic is not overdrive, and the five speed is, there is a difference there. Marshall Booth posted on another list the rear end ratios, and the five speeds are lower (higher numerically) than the automatics. And this doesn't take into account efficiency differences between a hydraulic heat sink and gears :) I do not know what the fourth gear ratio of a 722.4 in a 190D is. I was just going by what Scott said about it not being overdrive. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:44:24 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster http://www.scheiddieselmotorsports.com/drag.html 1/4 mile, 200mph. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:07:08 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster it gets better Mike. :) http://dhraonline.com/ so, instead of NOx we just use propane? :) so, how many 240d's can we get into this competition? I supposed it could be a problem... I mean how many sundials and sand vials are available at one time? ;) john On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Mike Frank wrote: >-->http://www.scheiddieselmotorsports.com/drag.html >--> >-->1/4 mile, 200mph. >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:25:00 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster At 06:07 PM 11/1/2004, john wrote: >so, how many 240d's can we get into this competition? > >I supposed it could be a problem... I mean how many sundials and >sand vials are available at one time? ;) I'm afraid that NHRA races are usually one-day events. Pretty much rules out 240's. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:29:54 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 03:07:08PM -0800, john wrote: > so, instead of NOx we just use propane? :) Actually, you use both. By the time you've modified your diesel to the point that you're considering propane, you've probably got oodles of extra fuel going in too. So, you stick nitrous on it. The extra oxygen helps burn off the extra fuel that used to be leaving the tailpipe. But then, you can put bigger injectors and a hotter chip in, so that you can run more boost and put more nitrous and more propane on it, right? well, right, until it goes BEWM. > so, how many 240d's can we get into this competition? Alec posted a story about a race between a 240D and something, either a Yugo or a Geo Metro (was it a sprint? same thing). A 240D might like a light dose of propane, but nitrous, propane, and bigger injectors might try to make a v4 out of that straight four. :-/ K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:36:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Worlds fastest diesel dragster On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Mike Frank wrote: >-->At 06:07 PM 11/1/2004, john wrote: >-->>so, how many 240d's can we get into this competition? >-->> >-->>I supposed it could be a problem... I mean how many sundials and >-->>sand vials are available at one time? ;) >--> >--> >-->I'm afraid that NHRA races are usually one-day events. Pretty much rules >-->out 240's. >-->Mike Frank now THAT is funny. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 19:33:11 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg John! You do us engineers shame, a mile is a mile is a mile, it is imperial gallons that are larger than ours. I was just visited by a friend from the old continent and were comparing notes on Diesels, his VW TDI gets 100 KM per 6 L. Ed john wrote: >doing some research, ran across this useful info: > >9 mpl = 40.5 mpg >8 mpl = 36 mpg >7 mpl = 31.5 mpg >6 mpl = 27 mpg > > >(from a british site, mpl = miles per liter... of course those >are probably imperial miles...0 > >It would be nice to find something from the continent... how do >they do it? 100km/ x liters? ??? it's been too long... > >john > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 19:47:48 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: [db] [Fwd: Ford Europe] No overt disel content but I thought the board members would enjoy seeing where the future is, like it or not. Ed GERMANY: Ford plans industry-leading platform consolidation 01 Nov 2004 Source: just-auto.com editorial tea Ford of Europe will consolidate passenger car production from four platforms to two to reduce manufacturing costs. According to Automotive News Europe, the next generation of upper-medium vehicles - including the Mondeo, Galaxy minivan and a crossover vehicle to compete with the Toyota RAV4 - will be built on a longer-wheelbase version of Ford's C1 lower-medium platform. The extended platform is code-named EUCD. The basic C1 platform introduced in 2003 already is the basis for the new lower-medium Ford Focus, Focus C-Max, Mazda3, Mazda5 and Volvo S40 and V50. All small cars, from the Ford Fusion and Fiesta down to the Ka and possibly even lower, will be developed on Ford's B platform, known as B2E. Mazda is leading the work on that programme. Ford hopes to reduce manufacturing and development costs on its European line-up by simplifying the basic underpinnings of its cars and making them more flexible to support more niche vehicles. Ford officials refer not to platforms but architectures, which at Ford consist of a "store" of components and systems the brands can choose from. The EUCD plan has ramifications for Ford's other brands, including Jaguar, whose X-type shares many of its components with the current Ford Mondeo. Sources say the next generation X-type could be built on the extended C1 platform. "There are not many platforms that are that flexible," said Nigel Griffiths, analyst for Global Insight in London. "If they crack it, it will become a sort of benchmark for other manufacturers to follow, I suspect." Griffiths estimated Ford could save "hundreds of millions" by not having a separate upper-medium platform. Currently, PSA is Europe's leanest car maker in terms of platforms. The French group has nearly completed its consolidation of Citroen and Peugeot brand car lines on only three platforms. Ford's current plan includes a new Ford-brand crossover vehicle - probably a Toyota RAV4 competitor with five doors and all-wheel-drive - that will be made on the extended Focus platform and built in Genk, Belgium, alongside the Galaxy and Mondeo. Also being considered are more offerings in the sub-Fiesta minicar segment where Ford now only offers the three-door Ka. On the larger platform, the Galaxy will be the first vehicle. The second Ford product off the larger platform will be the crossover in the second half of 2006, followed by the Mondeo replacement in early 2007. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:31:27 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg a nautical mile is not a mile... ;) I'm so confused... working with airplanes and boats and Diesels and gas and windows and unix... it's all so confusing sometimes. ;) john On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->John! You do us engineers shame, a mile is a mile is a mile, it is >-->imperial gallons that are larger than ours. >--> >-->I was just visited by a friend from the old continent and were comparing >-->notes on Diesels, his VW TDI gets 100 KM per 6 L. >--> >-->Ed >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>doing some research, ran across this useful info: >-->> >-->>9 mpl = 40.5 mpg >-->>8 mpl = 36 mpg >-->>7 mpl = 31.5 mpg >-->>6 mpl = 27 mpg >-->> >-->> >-->>(from a british site, mpl = miles per liter... of course those >-->>are probably imperial miles...0 >-->> >-->>It would be nice to find something from the continent... how do >-->>they do it? 100km/ x liters? ??? it's been too long... >-->> >-->>john >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 19:59:11 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg My 300D does not swim, does yours? :-) I deal with European auto homologation issues in my work, drives me to drink some nights (only single malt). I may be hitting a nerve here but I think it is time for the US to just go fully metric and adopt EU automotive standards (not the taxes - thank you). It would make my life easier (one can dream). Ed john wrote: >a nautical mile is not a mile... ;) > >I'm so confused... working with airplanes and boats >and Diesels and gas and windows and unix... > >it's all so confusing sometimes. ;) > >john > > >On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > > >>-->John! You do us engineers shame, a mile is a mile is a mile, it is >>-->imperial gallons that are larger than ours. >>--> >>-->I was just visited by a friend from the old continent and were comparing >>-->notes on Diesels, his VW TDI gets 100 KM per 6 L. >>--> >>-->Ed >>--> >>-->john wrote: >>--> >>-->>doing some research, ran across this useful info: >>-->> >>-->>9 mpl = 40.5 mpg >>-->>8 mpl = 36 mpg >>-->>7 mpl = 31.5 mpg >>-->>6 mpl = 27 mpg >>-->> >>-->> >>-->>(from a british site, mpl = miles per liter... of course those >>-->>are probably imperial miles...0 >>-->> >>-->>It would be nice to find something from the continent... how do >>-->>they do it? 100km/ x liters? ??? it's been too long... >>-->> >>-->>john >>-->> ---- >>-->> >>-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >>-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >>-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>--> >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:03:13 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->My 300D does not swim, does yours? :-) actually I was thinking about that today... or was it yesterday... :) (either day, they shouldn't leave me near car parts and extra chassis unsupervised... ;) >-->I deal with European auto homologation issues in my work, drives me to >-->drink some nights (only single malt). I may be hitting a nerve here but >-->I think it is time for the US to just go fully metric and adopt EU I don't know... reminds me too much of Jimmy Carter... ;) >-->automotive standards (not the taxes - thank you). It would make my life >-->easier (one can dream). john >--> >-->Ed >--> >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>a nautical mile is not a mile... ;) >-->> >-->>I'm so confused... working with airplanes and boats >-->>and Diesels and gas and windows and unix... >-->> >-->>it's all so confusing sometimes. ;) >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->> >-->>On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>>-->John! You do us engineers shame, a mile is a mile is a mile, it is >-->>>-->imperial gallons that are larger than ours. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->I was just visited by a friend from the old continent and were comparing >-->>>-->notes on Diesels, his VW TDI gets 100 KM per 6 L. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Ed >-->>>--> >-->>>-->john wrote: >-->>>--> >-->>>-->>doing some research, ran across this useful info: >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->>9 mpl = 40.5 mpg >-->>>-->>8 mpl = 36 mpg >-->>>-->>7 mpl = 31.5 mpg >-->>>-->>6 mpl = 27 mpg >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->>(from a british site, mpl = miles per liter... of course those >-->>>-->>are probably imperial miles...0 >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->>It would be nice to find something from the continent... how do >-->>>-->>they do it? 100km/ x liters? ??? it's been too long... >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->>john >-->>>-->> ---- >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->>>-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>>-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>--> >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:17:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg john wrote: > > a nautical mile is not a mile... ;) > *** Sure it is. You just have to add the tip. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:06:17 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] miles per liter --> mpg On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >-->john wrote: >-->> >-->> a nautical mile is not a mile... ;) >-->> >-->*** Sure it is. You just have to add the tip. >--> - Jerry the tip? oh do explain. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 16:23:05 -0500 From: "wmpless" Subject: [db] 190D rpm Hello, some of the older Volvos had a British overdrive made by Laycock de Normanville. The units were also installed in many other British cars, sometimes as standard equipment - sometimes as factory option. My Triumph has such an o/d and it means I actually have 7 forward gears. When the o/d is activate the rpms drop about 300 - 400 rpm. It does not sound much but it is quite noticeable in a low-reving long stroke engine. When out just cruising the rpms are around 2000. However, such a unit cannot be attached to a Merc. gearbox. re windshield wiper problems would like to repeat that the rod to which wiper arm is attached should be greased regularly with silicon grease. This can be done by flipping the little flap in lower wiper arm cover or the actual cover in later models. Probably a good idea to take apart the assembly and grease after it has been in for 15 years or more. Interesting to see that the new Mercedes cars do not have the hub wipers anymore. Take it, cost too high. Cheers ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1595 **********************************