From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Nov 4 22:12:57 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, November 5 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1600 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] cute engines, Diesels and other distractions Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... [db] RE: cute engines, Diesels and other distractions Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... [db] interesting Benz links - crash info [db] VM Diesel, Detroit Diesel, Chrysler & GM Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:10:48 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] cute engines, Diesels and other distractions there was a certain attraction to working under the hood of that little Spitfire... it would be amazingly easy to clean and detail that thing... a friend suggested the weber carb and manifold setup. If I had gotten it I might have looked at the 2.5L / AT out of an XJ... or a 240d setup.. But, I'm buying the '82 300D... the guy dropped the price a bunch... made me a deal I couldn't refuse... http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/82-300d-bad-engine/ it follows me home on Saturday. Not sure why he offered it to me for less than another guy had already offered him, but hey, works for me. Just need to figure out why #1 & #2 cylinders have no compression. A mechanic friend will be over this weekend, might just turn him loose on it. If we can't fix it I may just put the body on my GMC Jimmy... :) My son wants me to drop a V8 into it... well, I'm sorta doing that... after all the 6.2L Diesel IS a V8. ;) john On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, David Rubie wrote: >-->[deleted] >-->> >-->If you think an FSJ has rust problems, you have never had to deal >-->> >-->with a european sports car. Dollars to donuts it has >-->> "fred flintstone" >-->> >-->type floor pans. Lovely looking little car, but very little power >-->> >-->(tiny 1300 or 1500cc engine, pushrods, teensy carburettor etc). >-->> >-->> actually, this is Washington state... the floorboards are completely >-->> intact. I didn't crawl underneath but the gal's father had... (He's >-->> also originally from the midwest) and we were talking about that very >-->> issue. :) He checked it out and I could tell from the floorpan >-->> and trunk that there wasn't any rust down below... just on the >-->> end of a few places where the paint had chipped. >--> >-->Since it's the bodywork that eats most of the cash on a resto like that >-->you should be pretty safe. The '80 model Spitfire will have a 1500cc >-->engine in it although I can't remember if it's the same one as >-->the MG Midget (BMC A series) or the lesser respected triumph unit. >-->Dim memory suggests that both the MG Midget and the Spitfire ended >-->up with the 1500cc Triumph engine rather than the A series. Either >-->way they are mechanically very simple and cheap to refurbish >-->(half as many parts as a V8 :-) >--> >-->[deleted] >-->> >-->means anything. I can't remember whether the Spitfire is >-->> a unit body >-->> >-->or has a frame (i'm guessing it has at least a partial >-->> frame) which >-->> >-->> has a frame under the front... >--> >-->Have a really good look for rust in the suspension mounts at the >-->rear then. Being a late model, I think there was some thought put >-->into rust prevention (although nothing like modern cars). >--> >-->[deleted] >-->> >-->Hoods/trim etc. are probably all available in reproduction as the >-->> >-->pommies are nuts for fixing them up. >-->> >-->> pommies? :) >-->Sorry - Australian slang for somebody from the United Kingdom. >--> >-->> >-->> I would like to get a fiberglass top for it... it does rain a >-->> bit here. :) >-->I don't know how watertight the hoods are on Spitfires - maybe just >-->drive it on sunny days :-) The fibreglass tops for most of those >-->kinds of cars are (in my opinion) a pain. You can never get replacement >-->rubber seals for them as the manufacturers have all disappeared. >--> >-->Cheers, >--> >-->dave. >-->1983 Jeep Cherokee "Gaston" >-->1975 Alfa Spider Veloce "Rusty" >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:13:47 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 03:43:22PM -0800, john wrote: >-->> the guy with the 300d just dropped the price and I think I bought it... >-->> it should follow me home ok on a tow strap... :) >-->Heh/ >--> >-->> need to figure out why #1 & #2 have 0 psi compression... other cylinders >-->> at 380+psi... >--> >-->Head gasket or crack in the head between those two cylinders? Valves hanging >-->up? I guess it's possible to shoot a hole in two adjacent pistons, or lose >-->rings in two adjacent pistons. I'm thinking it's possibly something really, really simple... car is too clean to have been abused... we'll see. Aren't the valves mechanical lifters? The camshaft looked good... we couldn't turn it over because the battery was flat. >--> >-->Anything interesting in the oil pan? haven't looked there yet... >-->> the gal with the spitfire was seeing if the original owner had the hardtop, >-->> if she does it will come with the car... anyone interested? :) >-->You are. Find an RX-7. Anyone got a copy of the Grass Roots Motorsports >-->article detailing their rotary spitfire? I don't know where mine is... >-->:) The spitfire would be a cool project if I had a shop... the Benz will be easier to get going, or setting up on the Jimmy chassis... we'll see, no time, less money. ;) >--> >-->K >--> >-->-- >-->Kevin Pekarek >-->Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >-->Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:28:15 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 04:13:47PM -0800, john wrote: > I'm thinking it's possibly something really, really simple... car is too > clean to have been abused... we'll see. Aren't the valves mechanical lifters? Solid lifters with an adjustment that needs to be correct. I don't know which way they tend to if left to their devices - don't know if it's possible that they are that off that they're open all the time. Either way, a lot of people don't know that they need adjustment, so it might just be light neglect. I don't suspect a carboned up ring, though, because that should still have SOME compression, even if it is low enough to nail. > The camshaft looked good... we couldn't turn it over because the battery > was flat. Hm. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:26:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 04:13:47PM -0800, john wrote: >-->> I'm thinking it's possibly something really, really simple... car is too >-->> clean to have been abused... we'll see. Aren't the valves mechanical lifters? are they on rockers? didn't see off to the one side... if the rocker assembly is broken that could explain it... guess we'll have to pop the valve cover... here's a picture from someone's 300sd, same motor: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/broken-timing-chain-300sd/Nov10_03.jpg >-->Solid lifters with an adjustment that needs to be correct. I don't know which >-->way they tend to if left to their devices - don't know if it's possible that >-->they are that off that they're open all the time. >--> >-->Either way, a lot of people don't know that they need adjustment, so it >-->might just be light neglect. could be... we'll see.. john >--> >-->I don't suspect a carboned up ring, though, because that should still have >-->SOME compression, even if it is low enough to nail. >--> >-->> The camshaft looked good... we couldn't turn it over because the battery >-->> was flat. >--> >-->Hm. >--> >-->K >--> >-->-- >-->Kevin Pekarek >-->Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >-->Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:57:56 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] RE: cute engines, Diesels and other distractions On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, David Rubie wrote: >-->> there was a certain attraction to working under the hood of >-->> that little Spitfire... >-->> it would be amazingly easy to clean and detail that thing... >-->> a friend suggested the weber carb and manifold setup. If >-->> I had gotten it I might have looked at the 2.5L / AT out >-->> of an XJ... or a 240d setup.. >--> >-->A diesel powered spitfire? The torque could be lots of fun >-->in such a light car... but it would have to have the hardtop... Diesel fumes would ruin the experience otherwise. :) it would be a lot of fun though... >-->> But, I'm buying the '82 300D... the guy dropped the price >-->> a bunch... made me a deal I couldn't refuse... >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/82-300d-bad-engine/ >-->> it follows me home on Saturday. >--> >-->I'm curious as to why you're so keen on the diesel mercedes? >-->Other than the fuel economy, aren't parts prices a real killer? no, not at all... the 123 series is the automotive equivalant to a Ford 8n tractor! I can get a water pump for that thing for $14!!! Brake caliper with pads for $49. the 123 chassis was in production from '75 until '85, millions produced and found worldwide. >-->> A mechanic friend will be over this weekend, might just >-->> turn him loose on it. If we can't fix it I may just >-->> put the body on my GMC Jimmy... :) My son wants me to >-->> drop a V8 into it... well, I'm sorta doing that... after >-->> all the 6.2L Diesel IS a V8. ;) >-->I've been reading your adventures in regard to fitting a diesel >-->to an FSJ - I'm considering it when the AMC V8 in my Cherokee dies, if >-->only because in Outback Australia the only reliably obtainable fuel is >-->diesel. cool... I bought my '83 Jimmy for the 6.2L Diesel, was going to put it in my J10 but my buddy and I talked me out of it. ;) You might also consider the 4.0L I-6 out of an XJ cherokee, extraordinary engine... long lived, economical, plenty of torque. I'm putting one in my '83 J10 Stepside. >-->What sort of fuel economy can you get out of the 6.2 litre >-->Chevy diesels? 19 to 20mpg. This is my second. It's actually a Detroit-Allison Diesel, NOT a Chevy... It's a decent Diesel, not extraordinary... it's 379 cubic inches. >-->I assume their chosen as there are readily available >-->adaptor kids for the AMC 727 and whatnot? I'd ditch that piece of crap 727 for a TH400 or a 700r4. I am so disappointed in "elephant power". Growing up in the '60's mopar trannies were bullet proof... but the ones they put in the big Jeeps are junk. I've burned up more than one... don't get me started on 727s... :) >-->Cheers, >-->dave. later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:07:25 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... > the valve cover... here's a picture from someone's 300sd, same motor: > http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/broken-timing-chain-300sd/Nov > 10_03.jpg Ohhhh. That looks familiar. :-/ Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:08:05 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] the strange twists and turns... On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Michael Aimino wrote: >-->> the valve cover... here's a picture from someone's 300sd, same motor: >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/broken-timing-chain-300sd/Nov >-->> 10_03.jpg >--> >-->Ohhhh. That looks familiar. :-/ >-->Mike yeah, remember that? ;) see, these pictures come in handy every now and then... :) If my 3.0L in that '82 is kaput, I'm gonna have a 4x4 300d. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:28:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] interesting Benz links - crash info (I'm upgrading my SUSE install on my laptop so I'm over on the other system and surfing the web... ;) I noticed in the news some gal in a Honda was killed on I-5 last night, someone cut her off, she lost control and hit something... Most of the accidents involving Hondas seem to result in death. Not sure I'd want to be in one... ever... here's some links on Mercedes crashes & tests: john http://www.whnet.com/4x4/barenyi.html http://www.whnet.com/4x4/crashes.html extract from: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2605car.html This is Germany's infamous highway system, the autobahn. For long stretches, there is no speed limit. Some cars cruise at 100 miles an hour, and faster. Occasionally, German police cameras monitor the roads. Most of the time, traffic flows in predictable patterns. But recently, the cameras recorded a shocking event. As shown on this small screen in the lower right, a Mercedes in the oncoming lane is about to round the far corner, traveling almost 150 miles an hour. Playing back the tape, the police were able to see exactly what happened. The car was going too fast to make the turn. It grazed the guard rail on the right, and the driver lost control. After sliding 400 feet upside down, the car comes to a stop on the embankment, and the removable top flies off. Clearly, a horrifying accident, but what happens next is almost unbelievable. The driver climbs out - not only alive, but uninjured! A lucky man, certainly, but he also owes a large debt of gratitude to modern engineering. http://www.whnet.com/4x4/slroll.html http://www.whnet.com/4x4/two_car_crashes.html http://www.whnet.com/4x4/car_crashed_hall.html ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:10:27 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] VM Diesel, Detroit Diesel, Chrysler & GM On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->I wondered "what does VM diesel have to do with GM?" ... see below: >-->http://www.inland-dda.com/ >-->http://www.detroitdiesel.com/Corporate/Profile/index.asp well, check these out: http://www.vmmotori.it/en/index.jsp http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/01/index.jsp Prestigious Customers Turbotronic's unequalled combination of performance, economy, emissions, noise control, cost effectiveness and quality, elements which have characterised the VM Motori product range over the years, attracted such well-known names as Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Alfa Romeo and Rover. Many other important customers have adopted VM Motori's state of the art engines for a wide range of industrial, agricultural and marine applications. It seems to me one of the guys on the Diesel Benz list had a link that showed that Detroit Diesel had bought VM Diesel... and those Diesels are going into Chrysler products... I can't find it right now... but the following shows a lot of cross pollenization going on. :) john 10/03/2004 GM Daewoo and VM Motori Sign Long-Term Diesel Agreement GM Daewoo signed an agreement with Italian diesel engine maker VM Motori to manufacture a series of 1.5 and 2.0-liter diesel engines. They will be built at a new diesel engine plant alongside GM Daewoo's auto-making facility in Kunsan, South Korea. 17/11/2003 Distributorship Agreement between MTU FRIEDRICHSHAFEN and VM Motori signed VM MOTORI is to join its distribution activities with DaimlerChrysler Off-Highway in the future. Effective immediately, th ... http://www.detroitdiesel.com/media_information/press_releases/archive/pr090997.asp Press Release Detroit Diesel Introduces Full Line of Automotive Diesel Engines FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Frankfurt, Germany -- During the Frankfurt Auto Show, Detroit Diesel Corporation (DDC), already the world's leading independent supplier of automotive diesel engines, introduced a new line of engines with features designed to meet the performance, packaging, and emissions requirements for the cars of tomorrow. DDC's current automotive line, known as the TD (Turbocharged Diesel) includes 4, 5 and 6-cylinder models of 625 cc/cylinder. The expanded TD line adds 3, 4 and 5 cylinder models of 485 cc/cylinder. All TD models are turbocharged and offer premium features such as hydraulic tappets for noise control, iron cylinder liners for durability in a lightweight package and electronically controlled fuel systems. Vilmo Ferioli, Chief Executive Officer of Detroit Diesel's operations in Cento, Italy and General Manager of DDC's Automotive Diesel Business Unit, said, "The current TD line brought Detroit Diesel into a leadership position with proven technology such as indirect injection and two-valve cylinder heads. The additional TD line we're introducing today includes a variety of new features to improve performance, emissions, noise, vibration, fuel economy, startability and driveability." Ferioli continued, "These new models feature four valve heads, overhead camshafts, common rail fuel injection with pilot injection and balance shafts when required. These are high performance, lightweight engines that combine the feel of a gasoline engine with the economy of a diesel." Tim Leuliette, Vice Chairman of Detroit Diesel, adds, "Next month, DDC's new facility in Brazil will begin producing engines, adding significantly to our worldwide capacity. This expanded line of engines, coupled with increased capacity, now make it possible to serve additional customers around the world." Detroit Diesel currently supplies engines to Ford, Chrysler, Jeep, Fiat, Rover, Asia Motors, General Motors (Opel) and a number of others. Detroit Diesel Corporation is engaged in the design, manufacture, sale and service of heavy-duty diesel and alternative fuel engines, automotive diesel engines, and engine-related products; and provides financing through Detroit Diesel Capital Corporation. The Company offers a complete line of diesel engines from ten to 10,000 horsepower for the on-highway truck; construction, mining and industrial; automotive; coach and bus; marine; power generation; and military markets. Detroit Diesel services these markets directly and through a worldwide network of more than 2,500 authorized distributors and dealers. DDC is a QS-9000 certified company. Detroit Diesel's major shareholder is Penske Corporation, a closely-held, diversified transportation services company whose operations include Penske Truck Leasing Company, Diesel Technology Company, AG Kuhnle, Kopp and Kausch, Penske Automotive Group, Inc., Penske Auto Centers, Inc., Penske Motorsports, Inc., and Penske Capital Partners. The Penske group of businesses has annual revenues exceeding $6 billion and employs more than 28,000 people around the world. ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1600 **********************************