From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Nov 17 11:54:41 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, November 17 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1616 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Turning radius Re: [db] Tools for MB Re: [db] Turning radius Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Re: [db] Turning radius RE: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... RE: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Re: [db] fuel economy Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:37:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] Turning radius "Renaud (Ron) Olgiati" wrote: > > > > according to some notes in my PalmOS PDA, my 124 turning radius is 44 feet. > > my old 190d(201) was 35 feet. > > > hope that helps. > > Not really, mine is a 123... > *** So, does anybody know the turning circle of a 123? My impression is that it's pretty damned tight. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:47:55 -0800 From: "Thomas J. Harais" Subject: Re: [db] Tools for MB I bought one about a year ago when I went to drill something and found, once again, that my smaller bits were almost useless from dullness. I found it hard to believe the difference it made (I used to try sharpening the bits on my 6" grinding wheel and thought I was doing a good job). I promptly pulled out my entire set of drill bits, including lots of loose items rolling around the workbench drawer that didn't go in my Craftsman, matched set and sharpened every one of them. It was simple and easy and even worked on some cobolt bits I bought for a special project involving hardened steel tubing. I didn't have any brad point bits, but it will sharpen those too. I have a set of spade point, large wood boring bits but don't remember if I have sharpened those on it or not. The convinience and simplicity alone was worth it. Now, I don't attempt to use a bit that's not cutting through without sharpening it, since it only takes a minute and avoids an hour of frustration. This is especially true when working on an auto like our MBs where you are drilling steel. In summary, I'm quite pleased with the unit. I believe I paid $89.00 for it on sale at Home Depot, but I could be wrong. ;-) Tom H., '87 300 SDL wmpless wrote: > Hi, > Having sharp drill bits will make many jobs easier. > A local store has at present the sharpener "Drill Doctor" > on sale. Wondering whether anybody has this unit and whether it really works > to sharpen bits. Thanks in advance for a reply ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:48:07 -0300 From: "Renaud (Ron) Olgiati" Subject: Re: [db] Turning radius On Tuesday 16 November 2004 21:30, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > Ugly duckling?? This my friend is the pinnacle of French value > engineering! No other country in the world could do so much with so > little 26 gauge sheet metal. :-) Dont know what gauge you use, but in Imperial BWG, mostly it is nearer 16 gauge (1.5 mm to the un-metric heathens). Cheers, Ron. - -- ...Nessun maggior dolore, Che ricordarsi del tempo felice Nella miseria. -- Dante Alighieri -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:44:08 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->nice! What's the idea behind the headlights in the US (as opposed to >-->the flush lights here in Europe?) clueless bureacrats pretending to be europeans... ;) safety regulations and rules that can't make it through the process as fast as technology. ;) john >--> >--> >--> >-->On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:52:53 -0800 (PST), john wrote: >-->> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, J.B. Hebert wrote: >-->> >-->I just purchased a 1995 E300D. It's the last year of the 124 chassis, with >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->the newer 24 valve normally aspirated inline 6. It makes similar power to >-->> >-->the 2.5 turbo version of the same car, utilizing variable tumblers in the >-->> >-->intake runners which effectively varies their length to maximize torque and >-->> >-->HP based on RPM. My MB-only mechanic indicates that's it's quite the >-->> >-->performer and should make an excellent commuter vehicle. It's a one-owner >-->> >-->car which has been dealer maintained since day one. Full documentation is >-->> >-->included with the sale. It has 161,000 miles on it, but it doesn't look a >-->> >-->mile over 40k. You could eat off the engine compartment; the carpet and >-->> >-->seats look mint. The exterior is flawless with no rust or body >-->> >-->damage. The only sign of wear is some slight scuffing on the steering >-->> >-->wheel. It appears to be the quintessential "little old lady's/man's" car. >-->> >-->> remember the popcorn munching experience last week? >-->> >-->> well my friend at church didn't sway me to sell him my >-->> '91 300D, so he went out about bought a '95 E300 Diesel: >-->> >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/91-300d-95-E300-NOV-2004/ >-->> >-->> It has a naturally aspirated 6 cylinder as you mentioned, >-->> see the pictures... :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:46:40 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Oh, I'm sure if he has any trouble at all, he'll be in touch. :) john On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, J.B. Hebert wrote: >-->That's the one. Mine is white and grey, but otherwise the same. It's >-->interesting noting the effort MB went to in the last year or two of the 124 >-->chassis, changing the nose and some other design details, only to drop it >-->in '96. >--> >-->You'll have to let me know how his car compares to yours. I don't have >-->your unique opportunity to compare the cars side-by-side. >--> >-->J.B. >--> >-->At 01:52 AM 11/17/2004, you wrote: >-->>On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, J.B. Hebert wrote: >-->> >-->I just purchased a 1995 E300D. It's the last year of the 124 >-->> chassis, with >-->> >-->the newer 24 valve normally aspirated inline 6. It makes similar >-->> power to >-->> >-->the 2.5 turbo version of the same car, utilizing variable tumblers in the >-->> >-->intake runners which effectively varies their length to maximize >-->> torque and >-->> >-->HP based on RPM. My MB-only mechanic indicates that's it's quite the >-->> >-->performer and should make an excellent commuter vehicle. It's a >-->> one-owner >-->> >-->car which has been dealer maintained since day one. Full >-->> documentation is >-->> >-->included with the sale. It has 161,000 miles on it, but it doesn't >-->> look a >-->> >-->mile over 40k. You could eat off the engine compartment; the carpet and >-->> >-->seats look mint. The exterior is flawless with no rust or body >-->> >-->damage. The only sign of wear is some slight scuffing on the steering >-->> >-->wheel. It appears to be the quintessential "little old lady's/man's" >-->> car. >-->> >-->>remember the popcorn munching experience last week? >-->> >-->>well my friend at church didn't sway me to sell him my >-->>'91 300D, so he went out about bought a '95 E300 Diesel: >-->> >-->>http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/91-300d-95-E300-NOV-2004/ >-->> >-->>It has a naturally aspirated 6 cylinder as you mentioned, >-->>see the pictures... :) >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:47:10 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Turning radius On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, J.B. Hebert wrote: >-->Taken from my Nitske book: >--> >-->123 chassis cars up to 1979 (1977 in US) had a turning circle of 11 >-->meters. After 1979 (1977 in US), they had a turning circle of 11.29 meters. >--> >-->Hope this helps. has to, you even provided it in metric... ;) john >--> >-->J.B. >--> >-->At 01:54 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: >-->>On Tuesday 16 November 2004 20:48, john wrote: >-->> > if you can find a copy of Nietsche's (sp?) book on Mercedes >-->> > he'll have the 123 spec there... >-->> >-->>Dont have it ;-3( >-->> >-->> > according to some notes in my PalmOS PDA, my 124 turning radius is 44 feet. >-->> > my old 190d(201) was 35 feet. >-->> >-->> > hope that helps. >-->> >-->>Not really, mine is a 123... >-->> >-->> > btw, you have an ugly duckling??? cool >-->> >-->>I have travelled in one, then drove one, then owned one, on and off, for the >-->>last fifty years. >-->> >-->>Cheers, >-->> >-->>Ron. >-->> >-->>PS Turning radius for 123 ? Please ? >-->>-- >-->> We are drowning in information >-->> but starved for knowledge. >-->> -- John Naisbitt >-->> >-->> -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:13:10 -0600 From: Subject: RE: [db] A small ray of sunshine... >nice! What's the idea behind the headlights in the US (as opposed to >the flush lights here in Europe?) My understanding is that back in the day (as they say), the US government decided they didn't trust Joe Motorcar Owner to replace his bulbs correctly, which might lead to poor aim and poor lighting. (Have you ever not put an H4 bulb in all the way and seen the results?) The solution: standardized sealed beam units with alignment of the filament, reflector, and lens controlled to manufacturing tolerances. And hey, while we're at it, let's insist that all US cars must not only use sealed beam units, they also have a choice of only two configurations: a big round and a big rectangular. One each smaller size round and rectangular were later added. One true benefit to consumers was that the large market for replacement lights choosing from only four shapes/sizes encouraged third party suppliers, reducing (theoretically) the cost of replacements. The Feds finally gave in around 1985 or so and allowed custom shapes with replaceable bulbs, but they still specify certain performance characteristics of the light distribution pattern. Europeans get that nice distinct vertical cutoff so they don't have to waste light output above that level, but street signs tend to be self-illuminated over there. We don't light up all our signs, so the headlights have to catch them. One other, possibly unanticipated benefit of the older standardized sizes is that US 123 owners can replace the crappy lights with "motorcycle" or "off-road only" units that are the right size to use the existing mounting and aiming hardware, but they use standard H4 bulbs and produce the Euro style lighting pattern. If I want better lighting on my W124, I have to pay big bucks to convert to Euro units where the headlight wipers sweep the other way, requiring a new filler plate between the bottom of the headlights and the top of the bumper. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 177K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:56:49 -0800 From: "tomdurkin" Subject: Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... We can thank General Electric Corporation for those rules. It seems GE held patents for sealed beams and their persuasive lobby fostered the rule making. I could go back to look up the research, but after 30 years of experience, I just buy H-4 and light up the night. Tom - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 8:13 AM Subject: RE: [db] A small ray of sunshine... > >nice! What's the idea behind the headlights in the US (as opposed to > >the flush lights here in Europe?) > > My understanding is that back in the day (as they say), the US > government decided they didn't trust Joe Motorcar Owner to replace his > bulbs correctly, which might lead to poor aim and poor lighting. (Have > you ever not put an H4 bulb in all the way and seen the results?) The > solution: standardized sealed beam units with alignment of the filament, > reflector, and lens controlled to manufacturing tolerances. And hey, > while we're at it, let's insist that all US cars must not only use > sealed beam units, they also have a choice of only two configurations: a > big round and a big rectangular. One each smaller size round and > rectangular were later added. > > One true benefit to consumers was that the large market for replacement > lights choosing from only four shapes/sizes encouraged third party > suppliers, reducing (theoretically) the cost of replacements. > > The Feds finally gave in around 1985 or so and allowed custom shapes > with replaceable bulbs, but they still specify certain performance > characteristics of the light distribution pattern. Europeans get that > nice distinct vertical cutoff so they don't have to waste light output > above that level, but street signs tend to be self-illuminated over > there. We don't light up all our signs, so the headlights have to catch > them. > > One other, possibly unanticipated benefit of the older standardized > sizes is that US 123 owners can replace the crappy lights with > "motorcycle" or "off-road only" units that are the right size to use the > existing mounting and aiming hardware, but they use standard H4 bulbs > and produce the Euro style lighting pattern. If I want better lighting > on my W124, I have to pay big bucks to convert to Euro units where the > headlight wipers sweep the other way, requiring a new filler plate > between the bottom of the headlights and the top of the bumper. > > Alec Cordova > Taylor, Texas > 89 300CE, 177K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:30:24 -0500 From: Paul Brown Subject: Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... So, what do I buy to convert my 123 to H-4 lighting? tomdurkin wrote: > We can thank General Electric Corporation for those rules. > It seems GE held patents for sealed beams and their > persuasive lobby fostered the rule making. I could go back > to look up the research, but after 30 years of experience, I > just buy H-4 and light up the night. > Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:34:42 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Either look for a set of Euro headlights (eBay or similar), or check out a place like Daniel Stern lighting for GOOD 7" conversion lenses. The stuff you can get at McParts or the like isn't worth the time and effort. I think Stern's web site is http://www.danielsternlighting.com. Lots of good info. J.B. At 12:30 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: >So, what do I buy to convert my 123 to H-4 lighting? > > > >tomdurkin wrote: > >>We can thank General Electric Corporation for those rules. >>It seems GE held patents for sealed beams and their >>persuasive lobby fostered the rule making. I could go back >>to look up the research, but after 30 years of experience, I >>just buy H-4 and light up the night. >>Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:38:59 -0600 From: Subject: RE: [db] A small ray of sunshine... Look for headlight units for motorcycle or off-road use. Hella and Cibie make them, among others, and I know Rusty sells them, again among others. Initial investment for me several years ago was something like 50 bucks per side, but then you can keep and reuse the reflector+lens units and just replace bulbs, and the lighting is SOOOOOO much better, especially after you tinker with the aim a few times until you almost can't notice the vertical cutoff on low beam when driving on a straight flat road. Alec - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Paul Brown Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:30 AM Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... So, what do I buy to convert my 123 to H-4 lighting? tomdurkin wrote: > We can thank General Electric Corporation for those rules. > It seems GE held patents for sealed beams and their > persuasive lobby fostered the rule making. I could go back > to look up the research, but after 30 years of experience, I > just buy H-4 and light up the night. > Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:07:05 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy My gosh my 4X4 1-ton pickup gets better than that! Scrap that thing! ;) Jim/ P.S. Just let me know which salvage yard it goes to ;) > my wife hasn't been keeping records either... I filled up her > WJ yesterday and learned it's getting about 15mpg... better than the > v8 version, but still not good... > > john > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, wmpless wrote: > > >-->Hi, > >-->on the "Continent" it is still xL/100km - same in Canada. > >-->With careful driving I average with my 86 190D 2.5L. slush box, about 7.2L per > >-->100 km. > >-->My wife is driving a Saturn L series stationwagon with a 4 cyl. engine. She > >-->never bothered to find actual consumption but must say car fairly economical. > >-->Engine revs much lower than the one in my 190. Cheers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:52:03 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] A small ray of sunshine... the IPF conversion lamps (available via ARB-USA) are excellent. I have a set of rectangular ones I'll be using again... so they have them for the 126 & 201 models... the round ones for the 123. Highly recommend the IPF's. Excellent quality lenses, much better than the Bosch or Hellas. john On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, J.B. Hebert wrote: >-->Either look for a set of Euro headlights (eBay or similar), or check out a >-->place like Daniel Stern lighting for GOOD 7" conversion lenses. The stuff >-->you can get at McParts or the like isn't worth the time and effort. I >-->think Stern's web site is http://www.danielsternlighting.com. Lots of good >-->info. >--> >-->J.B. >--> >--> >-->At 12:30 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: >-->>So, what do I buy to convert my 123 to H-4 lighting? >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>tomdurkin wrote: >-->> >-->>>We can thank General Electric Corporation for those rules. >-->>>It seems GE held patents for sealed beams and their >-->>>persuasive lobby fostered the rule making. I could go back >-->>>to look up the research, but after 30 years of experience, I >-->>>just buy H-4 and light up the night. >-->>>Tom >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1616 **********************************