From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Nov 24 15:54:00 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, November 24 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1623 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] No Heat from a 116 300 SD Re: [db] Re: 300 D 1991 RE: [db] Re: 300 D 1991 Re: [db] Oh brother.... Re: [db] generators [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) RE: [db] Oh brother.... RE: [db] Oh brother.... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:27:39 -0600 From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" Subject: Re: [db] No Heat from a 116 300 SD No, it has the servo, its probably stuck and/or leaking, you will have to try and find a used one(yea right) or spend $300+ from Rusty to get a rebuilt one. Black, Waylon wrote: > Looking at a 300 SD(116) for sale. Heater does not work. Does this model > have a 'mono-valve'? > > Everything else seems okay - how hard is the MV replacement on the 116 > chassis? > > Thanks, > Waylon Black > Little Elm, Texas > > - -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 76 240D, 72 300SEL 4.5 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:43:50 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Re: 300 D 1991 John, You would not happen to have a link and nice instructional pictures on how to remove a head from 5 cyl Diesel would you? After reading (that is not the word that actually came to mind) the MB factory manual it is clear that it was written by a German engineer for another German engineer and was translated to English by a Russian, not clear at all to us normal persons.. Thanks, Edward john wrote: >you only need to the special tool for the >things under the lock nuts: >the tool on the left... splined socket: >http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/Pressure-Valve-Seal-Replacement/8-newtools.jpg >http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/Pressure-Valve-Seal-Replacement/ > >the crowfoot wrench is nice, but a 17mm open end wrench will also work. >tools aren't too expensive. > >just keep things clean and you'll be fine. > >the time estimates sound reasonable... I think it took me >maybe two hours... and I puttered. :) > >john > >On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, Koorosh wrote: > > >>-->Hi Mr. Meister; >>--> >>->I enjoyed looking over your web site. I was especially intriqued with the pressure valve seal replacement of the 300 D 1991 2.5 liter. I have the similiar problem and would like to follow your instructions on the replacement method , however, before I invest in supplies and tools I would like to ask , do you feel someone with a medium mechanical ability would be able do this procedure and how long does it take to replace the seals? Mechanics have quoted me anything from a 5 hours to 2 hours and prices from 3 hundred to over 5 hundred . Please help, I would really appreciate some straight anwsers. >>--> >>-->Respectfully, >>-->Mr. Koorosh Reyhani >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:53:44 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" Subject: RE: [db] Re: 300 D 1991 Edward, Actually, I believe it was written in English. MB conducts much of their business internationally and chose English as the lingua franca. Things are then translated (by native speakers) into a local language when necessary. Of course, it was written with a very German attention to thoroughness and precision and can be daunting. Haynes or Chilton probably has a simpler manual available. You might want to read that first to get the basic understanding-then try the MB manual again. The MB manuals do assume that anyone about to tackle such procedures already possesses a certain level of knowledge. Be sure to use MB torque values and other specs. Chilton or Haynes often have mistakes in the details. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Edward Pomeroy Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 1:44 PM To: john Cc: diesel-benz list Subject: Re: [db] Re: 300 D 1991 John, You would not happen to have a link and nice instructional pictures on how to remove a head from 5 cyl Diesel would you? After reading (that is not the word that actually came to mind) the MB factory manual it is clear that it was written by a German engineer for another German engineer and was translated to English by a Russian, not clear at all to us normal persons.. Thanks, Edward john wrote: >you only need to the special tool for the >things under the lock nuts: >the tool on the left... splined socket: >http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/Pressure-Valve-Seal-Replacement/8-newt ools.jpg >http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/Pressure-Valve-Seal-Replacement/ > >the crowfoot wrench is nice, but a 17mm open end wrench will also work. >tools aren't too expensive. > >just keep things clean and you'll be fine. > >the time estimates sound reasonable... I think it took me >maybe two hours... and I puttered. :) > >john > >On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, Koorosh wrote: > > >>-->Hi Mr. Meister; >>--> >>->I enjoyed looking over your web site. I was especially intriqued with the pressure valve seal replacement of the 300 D 1991 2.5 liter. I have the similiar problem and would like to follow your instructions on the replacement method , however, before I invest in supplies and tools I would like to ask , do you feel someone with a medium mechanical ability would be able do this procedure and how long does it take to replace the seals? Mechanics have quoted me anything from a 5 hours to 2 hours and prices from 3 hundred to over 5 hundred . Please help, I would really appreciate some straight anwsers. >>--> >>-->Respectfully, >>-->Mr. Koorosh Reyhani >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:15:58 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Oh brother.... On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 10:25:48AM -0700, scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: > My 1985 2.2L 190D has a noisy rear end too...it kind of hums when I let off > the petal to coast... On mine, I'm pretty sure it is actually the gears, as I have seen mine apart with marking grease, and know the wear is not even. I have seen wear like this on jeeps, and it is LOUD. On the W201, there isn't a differential mount per se - the differential bolts directly to the rear subframe, using either four or six bolts. Other models have some sort of a rubber mount that when the mount goes away or fatigues, metal to metal contact happens, and the contact resonates through the body. Yours COULD be the gears or a bearing inside, but you might also want to have a lookie at the center bearing (what us american car wrenches call a universal joint) in the driveshaft. John liked to use Amsoil lube in things, so I doubt there's odd wear on the gears unless it was there before he got it. Then again, he likes jeeps, so maybe he is deaf to gear noise? :) It could also be that it is not the differential, but some other part of the subframe making metal to metal contact. If it was the subframe mounts themselves, I'd expect a slight amount of rear end steer to come with it, but it is hard to detect on california highways, since caltrans doesn't seem to know how to correctly repair a road. There are four mounts for the rear subframe, two in front of the "axle", two behind. They are easy to spot with the tire removed. The front two (one on each side of the car) are pressed down into the subframe, the rear two are pressed up into the subframe. If you see bad cracking on the exposed side, they may need replacement. There are upgraded ones available, get the bolt kits with them if you do it, as well as a can of "sil-glyde" from NAPA or Naptholen-H from a dealer to coat them with before you install. You will need a floor jack, jack stands, something to take the wheels off, and (iirc, it has been a while), a 13mm, 15mm, 17mm, and 19mm to take things apart, and a E-14 Torx wrench for re-install (because the two rear bolts are now torx). I have the Klann tool for removing/reinstalling these if you do this - with the Klann tool, it takes less than a day to do. > Under power, it doesn't seem to make any noise, or it's drowned out by the > engine... Mine is exactly the opposite. There is a slight hum when coasting in gear, a loud hum when on the throttle, and almost no hum when the clutch is pushed in. > I wonder..... I turn the radio up in the 190D until I can get a chance to take the rear end apart again. K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:27:08 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] generators no, no answer yet... my boss wants to use his '62 for both, so we'd have to use the output of the automatic trans on his to drive the generator... john On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, The Chmielewski Family wrote: >-->Did you get any answers to this that I missed? I have an old 300D with a >-->nice engine and was wondering the same thing. >-->Ted >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: "diesel-benz list" >-->Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:54 PM >-->Subject: [db] generators >--> >--> >-->> ok, turns out my boss and I both have a Mercedes Diesel sitting >-->> around and he wants to know if there is a kit to turn one into a >-->> generator. :) >-->> >-->> his is a '62 190d. >-->> mine is that '79 300d >-->> >-->> :) >-->> john >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:22:03 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) I just bought a 1995 E300D to replace my 1982 300CD that was totalled a few weeks ago. I am only really familiar with the OM617 motors, so this is a bit of a new experience for me. Not only is this my first non-OM617 Mercedes, it's also my first non-123 chassis car. Yes, I know... it's about time. I just like the older iron... Anyway, I have a few questions. As mentioned frequently on this list, I used to benchmark the state of tune on my 123 chassis cars by doing a couple of 0-60 runs. Something in the 12 second range usually indicated that the car was making appropriate power. What is the expected 0-60 time on the E300D? I have to assume that since it makes similar power and weighs almost the same as my 300CD, it should be similar. This brings me to my second question. I picked up the car from NC and drove it back to MA, a little over 800 miles. The car drove GREAT but seems to be down a little on power. I will time it at lunch, but it seems to be in the 15 second range for 0-60. It is smooth as heck, and got over 30 MPG doing about 85 MPH for a full tank. It has also been completely dealer maintained, with recent fuel and air filters installed, so I doubt it's a plugged filter. (On a side note, do these cars have a pre-filter for the fuel like on the 617, or just the main filter?) I have read that on these motors the LOOOOOOOOOOOONG intake can get clogged with soot from the EGR, which can effect performance. Should I pull the intake and give it a good cleaning? The car has 162,000 miles on it and I'm sure it's never been done. Next question, also related: Is there a Diesel Purge procedure similar to the OM617 motors, where I can run some directly into the motor instead of pouring it into the tank? The intake seems to block easy access to the IP and associated plumbing. Are there other items that could also affect performance adversely that I should know about? Are there any "sensitive" parts on this motor (read: $$$) that I should be aware of and address? Any recommendations from someone in the know would be most appreciated. I am planning on switching to Mobil 1 Truck & SUV (5W-40) or 0-40 (depending on availability) at my next oil change. This is what I ran in my 300CD and I see no reason why it won't work in this car. Thanks in advance, J.B. Hebert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:42:46 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Oh brother.... On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: >-->Kevin, >--> >-->My 1985 2.2L 190D has a noisy rear end too...it kind of hums when I let off >-->the petal to coast... you sure that's the rear end and not just the engine? try putting it in neutral and see if you still hear it... or turning the car off... (be careful) >-->Under power, it doesn't seem to make any noise, or it's drowned out by the >-->engine... >-->I wonder..... hard to tell about rear end noise in any vehicle... could be u-joints/cv's even... R&P's are usually quite durable... especially in cars like this. You might want to check your fluid level and consider changing the gear lube, would also give you a chance to check the wear. john >--> >-->R, >-->Scott >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Kevin Pekarek >-->Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:46 PM >-->To: Jason R Bassett >-->Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->Subject: Re: [db] Oh brother.... >--> >--> >-->On Sat, Nov 20, 2004 at 11:45:26PM -0500, Jason R Bassett wrote: >-->> Turns out that the problem with my steering was that I had moved the >-->> alignment way too much, going from slightly out to severely in. This >-->> caused the odd handling, and made it just plain dangerous when the road >-->> was wet. (So I went very slowly back to Grandpa's garage and adjusted it. >-->> 8<3) >--> >-->I remember hearing something about the front end on a mercedes (123/116/126) >-->being set up with the steering behind the axle, which would require the use >-->of a spreader bar to simulate the separating force on the front wheels from >-->driving down the road. I already was looking under the one 300D in the >-->parking lot here a bit today, I have a feeling if I go look under it again >-->the security guard might want to talk to me. Other than that, I don't >-->have a car like yours to compare against. >--> >-->> Now with the alignment just a hairsbreadth toed in (I measured it this >-->> time) and the slack in the steering taken up as tight as I dared, (the >-->> parts underneath were all excellent) the thing steers like it's brand >-->> new. Very fun! >--> >-->Well, a teense toed in might be spot on, in light of the above. There is a >-->spec for how much slack is supposed to be in the steering box, in case you >-->tightened it up. I don't have a 123 manual handy, so hopefully someone else >-->knows if you need the figure. >--> >-->> Now, I have a major concern that came to my attention Weds when I rotated >-->> the tires. The rear end has some slop in it; I had hoped it was a CV >-->> joint going. When I had it up I ruled that out; it's the diff. >-->> 1. Is this normal? >-->> 2. Is this going to leave me stuck with no warning, or get obscenely >-->> noisy about 10,000 miles before? >-->> 3. Can I rebuild it without a machine shop? >-->> 4. Can I replace it reasonably inexpensively? >--> >-->What do you mean slop, as in play in the gears when you turn the wheel, >-->being able to shake the wheel, or being able to push the tire in towards >-->the diff and pull it out a bit? >--> >-->Replacing the diff itself is easy if you find another car with one and swap >-->it in. the 300D turbo had the same rear end in all years of the turbo 617 >-->in a 123 EXCEPT 85, when they put taller gears in back and a higher stall >-->converter in. If you didn't want to rebuild the rear end, you could probably >-->get one from a junkyard. As long as it wasn't run dry, it shouldn't really >-->wear out. This will be your cheapest alternative. >--> >-->That said, my 190D has a noisy rear end, and disassembly showed an obtuse >-->wear pattern on the ring gear. Well, duh. It sounded like it did. Since my >-->190D is a five speed 2.2L, the gear ratio it had is specific to that engine/ >-->trans combo, so that isn't an option. If it makes you feel any better, it >-->has been noisy for over ten thousand miles, and hasn't gotten any worse. >-->It did lose a pinion bearing and BOY was that loud (and supposedly had a >-->bunch of slop in it). That was relatively cheap to deal with - I don't like >-->playing with diffs, and had a shop replace the bearing. Parts are obtainable, >-->just need a shop that is familiar with mercedes rear ends - they're a little >-->different than pretty much everything else american in how they are set up. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:56:36 -0700 From: Subject: RE: [db] Oh brother.... John, It had this same noise when you had it...probably didn't notice due to the Jeep factor that Kevin mentioned? I remember pointing it out on the test drive to you, but you didn't seem to hear it....I've pretty much ignored it since, and it hasn't caused any problems yet....I'll probably continue to ignore it until I have to do something about it. I need to get my suburban running again first. Don't get me started on that off topic conversation... Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone!! R, Scott - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 2:43 PM To: scott_haaland-at-agilent.com Cc: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net; jasonbassett-at-juno.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: [db] Oh brother.... On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: >-->Kevin, >--> >-->My 1985 2.2L 190D has a noisy rear end too...it kind of hums when I let off >-->the petal to coast... you sure that's the rear end and not just the engine? try putting it in neutral and see if you still hear it... or turning the car off... (be careful) >-->Under power, it doesn't seem to make any noise, or it's drowned out by the >-->engine... >-->I wonder..... hard to tell about rear end noise in any vehicle... could be u-joints/cv's even... R&P's are usually quite durable... especially in cars like this. You might want to check your fluid level and consider changing the gear lube, would also give you a chance to check the wear. john >--> >-->R, >-->Scott >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Kevin Pekarek >-->Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:46 PM >-->To: Jason R Bassett >-->Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->Subject: Re: [db] Oh brother.... >--> >--> >-->On Sat, Nov 20, 2004 at 11:45:26PM -0500, Jason R Bassett wrote: >-->> Turns out that the problem with my steering was that I had moved the >-->> alignment way too much, going from slightly out to severely in. This >-->> caused the odd handling, and made it just plain dangerous when the road >-->> was wet. (So I went very slowly back to Grandpa's garage and adjusted it. >-->> 8<3) >--> >-->I remember hearing something about the front end on a mercedes (123/116/126) >-->being set up with the steering behind the axle, which would require the use >-->of a spreader bar to simulate the separating force on the front wheels from >-->driving down the road. I already was looking under the one 300D in the >-->parking lot here a bit today, I have a feeling if I go look under it again >-->the security guard might want to talk to me. Other than that, I don't >-->have a car like yours to compare against. >--> >-->> Now with the alignment just a hairsbreadth toed in (I measured it this >-->> time) and the slack in the steering taken up as tight as I dared, (the >-->> parts underneath were all excellent) the thing steers like it's brand >-->> new. Very fun! >--> >-->Well, a teense toed in might be spot on, in light of the above. There is a >-->spec for how much slack is supposed to be in the steering box, in case you >-->tightened it up. I don't have a 123 manual handy, so hopefully someone else >-->knows if you need the figure. >--> >-->> Now, I have a major concern that came to my attention Weds when I rotated >-->> the tires. The rear end has some slop in it; I had hoped it was a CV >-->> joint going. When I had it up I ruled that out; it's the diff. >-->> 1. Is this normal? >-->> 2. Is this going to leave me stuck with no warning, or get obscenely >-->> noisy about 10,000 miles before? >-->> 3. Can I rebuild it without a machine shop? >-->> 4. Can I replace it reasonably inexpensively? >--> >-->What do you mean slop, as in play in the gears when you turn the wheel, >-->being able to shake the wheel, or being able to push the tire in towards >-->the diff and pull it out a bit? >--> >-->Replacing the diff itself is easy if you find another car with one and swap >-->it in. the 300D turbo had the same rear end in all years of the turbo 617 >-->in a 123 EXCEPT 85, when they put taller gears in back and a higher stall >-->converter in. If you didn't want to rebuild the rear end, you could probably >-->get one from a junkyard. As long as it wasn't run dry, it shouldn't really >-->wear out. This will be your cheapest alternative. >--> >-->That said, my 190D has a noisy rear end, and disassembly showed an obtuse >-->wear pattern on the ring gear. Well, duh. It sounded like it did. Since my >-->190D is a five speed 2.2L, the gear ratio it had is specific to that engine/ >-->trans combo, so that isn't an option. If it makes you feel any better, it >-->has been noisy for over ten thousand miles, and hasn't gotten any worse. >-->It did lose a pinion bearing and BOY was that loud (and supposedly had a >-->bunch of slop in it). That was relatively cheap to deal with - I don't like >-->playing with diffs, and had a shop replace the bearing. Parts are obtainable, >-->just need a shop that is familiar with mercedes rear ends - they're a little >-->different than pretty much everything else american in how they are set up. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1623 **********************************