From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Nov 26 20:13:52 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, November 27 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1629 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] the 300CD [db] Leaking Injector-new Re: [db] Leaking Injector-new [none] RE: [db] W123 heat? RE: [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) Re: [db] Inspection pit (motorcars, for the repairs of)(more) [db] Re: W123 heat Re: [db] Leaking Injector-new RE: [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) Re: [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) [db] adding a turbo... (was E300 long... :) [db] Re: adding a turbo... (was E300 long... :) Re: [db] Re: adding a turbo... (was E300 long... :) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:48:55 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] the 300CD I think I'm going to gather a number of pieces this thing needs and sell the '77 300CD (finally looked at the paperwork). If I can find a transmission that I can afford (free is affordable right now ;) I'll install it and see if I can get it running... I've got an instrument cluster, taillights and a few other needed pieces coming. I straightened the back end out today and will fit the lights and straighten the trunk lid. It's not too bad at all. Didn't even need to use a hydraulic jack setup. I'm cleaning out all the trash and will start testing wiring and basic systems. I'm trying to add some value and get this thing into a state where someone can just drop a transmission into this jewel and make it something worth restoring. It does have a few spots of cancer, but all of it appears easily repaired by even an amateur metal bender like me. :) If anyone has a '77 AT available let me know... If I had an enclosed shop I might consider rebuilding the one that's in the trunk... I may take it apart for grins. :) I'll take detailed pictures tomorrow and build a page, probably put this thing on craigslist at least. I've purchased and acquired a number of parts over the years for the 123 that are going to help this project... just bought all the parts from my son's 123 that was scrapped. :) anyone interested in this '77 300CD? It's got potential... it's too nice to part out or scrap... not nice enough for me to turn into a street rod with a v8... the temptation still exists to put it on the GMC chassis... ;) problem is the Jimmy isn't golden either... it needs a few things too... Sure am thankful that my '91 300D doesn't need anything and is doing so well... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:12:00 -0800 From: Chuck Subject: [db] Leaking Injector-new new to me that is my injector #2 on a 617d it bubbles around the base I will asume ( I know) it is compression leaking out -there is some diesel around it as well. Should I just tighten or replace the heat shield ( crush washer) ? Thanks Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:05:34 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Leaking Injector-new where on the base? where the threads meet the head or along the side of the injector... that's more typical... john On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Chuck wrote: >-->new to me that is my injector #2 on a 617d it bubbles around the base >-->I will asume ( I know) it is compression leaking out -there is some >-->diesel around it as well. >--> >-->Should I just tighten or replace the heat shield ( crush washer) ? >--> >-->Thanks >--> >-->Chuck >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:26:28 -0800 From: Chuck Subject: [none] where on the base? where the threads meet the head or along the side of the injector... that's more typical... john Mine leaks around the bas like a loose sparkplug. Thanks Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:10:33 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] W123 heat? I may be talking out of my backside on this, since I never worked with a 1980 ACC system, but you may not be able to rule out the blower motor. I think the controls of the system manipulate fan speed by sending LESS THAN 12 volts to the blower, in several stages of voltage. It could be that the brushes in your blower motor have worn to the point that only a full 12 volts is sufficient to get the thing to turn. Since that blower motor is so ridiculously easy to remove, I'd suggest you take it out and visually examine the brushes. If they have less than a half inch or so remaining, George Murphy (george_murphy-at-compuserve.com last I knew, or (423) 482-9175 might still work) sells replacement brushes that you can solder in. Probably still under 30 bucks for the set. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 178K > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Paul Brown > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 3:28 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: [db] W123 heat? > > > My 1980 300D (automatic temperature control system) heater fan has > stopped running. The fan runs when I put 12 V across the terminals. > What is the diagnosis procedure? I can't find it on the W123 CD. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:18:00 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) > >It might even be that this engine is worn a bit... hard to say... each > >benz I've owned or driven has a different feel to it... a > non-turbo model > >regardless of the displacement feels really dead to me any more... that > >'80 300CD I had felt really slow after driving an 83 300SD... the 190D > >felt slow after driving the 300d with a turbo... > > > >I wonder if a turbo could be safely fitted to your engine... > > Way ahead of you. From what I can gather, and this is a VERY preliminary > investigation, the exact same motor was used in later cars with a > turbo and > a different intake. Same bore, stroke, and compression ratio, even. If > it's the same head, I can probably get the parts from a junkyard. > Then 174 > HP and 244 lb-ft will put a BIG smile on my face. > > Remember that there are significant internal differences between the turbo and nonturbo versions of the older OM617, including such things as the turbo ones having oil sprays up into the underside of the pistons to help manage the heat. There may be similar non-obvious but still significant differences between the turbo and nonturbo versions of your motor. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:03:19 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Inspection pit (motorcars, for the repairs of)(more) Ron: Add a good shop vacuum cleaner, you are going to need it to suck out all the spiders and other nasty insects that are going to nest in your nice, dark, moist pit. I had a pit in my first house, if it went without use for more than 3 weeks I had to repeat the cleaning procedure every time. Mine had no stairs for exit, had two rungs stuck in the concrete. Fine for young guys but would now want nice staricase out one end. Have fun, it does make many jobs easier by far. Edward john wrote: >if the soil is as you say make sure you are careful doing >the pour... I'd make the walls thicker than what you might >want to do... I'd go for at least 6" of mud, I would NOT >use bricks or blocks unless you poured a footing and had >metal going all the way up the walls. > >a phone is an excellent idea... > >hey, can you send your worker up here to build my garage? ;) > >I've got a master craftsman that is excellent, but he is >working for about $30 an hour, and that's a bargain really... > >guess there are some advantages to living in a "third world" country. ;) > >john > >On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Renaud (Ron) Olgiati wrote: > > > >>-->After all the preliminary advice I have received, here are a few explanations: >>--> >>-->- There is no way I can justify forking out $2500 for a lift when I pay my >>-->pit-digger/brick-layer/plumber/electrician/factotum-en-chef the princely sum >>-->of nine US$ for each eight-hour working day. >>--> >>-->- No point in making it water-tight, I'm digging in slightly argilous very >>-->porous sand, and the water table is sixty meters below ground level. >>--> >>-->- I plan to edge the lip of the pit with 50mm x 50 mm angle, to support >>-->lengths of 50 mm X 200 mm hardwood that will make a floor I can drive on when >>-->the pit is not in use. A couple of those conveniently placed will enable me >>-->to jack up whatever from under the car. >>--> >>-->- The cars parked there will both be Diesels, and anyway the garage will be >>-->completely open on one side. >>--> >>-->- The floor of the garage will slope up to the edge of the pit, to reduce the >>-->possibility of spilled liquids falling down into it. >>--> >>-->- We dont have here any building/zoning/wiring/plumbing/sewering/etc codes or >>-->regulations, and when the voluntary fire-brigade visits me once a year they >>-->leave saying "thank you for your generous support". >>--> >>-->Up to now the most useful advice received was about having a phone extention >>-->in the pit; anything else ? >>--> >>-->TIA, >>--> >>-->Ron, on the banks of the Paraguay River. >>-->-- >>--> Everyone talks about apathy, >>--> but no one does anything about it. >>--> >>--> -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- >>--> >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:21:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] Re: W123 heat On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Paul Brown wrote: >-->Thx >--> >-->How does it pop out of the dash? mostly. :) you pull the ash tray out, then either you pull up on the wood trip and it lifts out or there are two phillips screws to remove... In the last couple of years I've had 123s, 124s, and 201s... not to mention Jeeps and GMs... hard to keep them all straight some times. :) john >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>could be the computer assy in the dash... just under >-->>$150 or so, easy to swap out... but if you take it >-->>apart and check the solder joints, reflow them, clean >-->>contacts you might be able to make it work again. >-->> >-->>the fan is controlled in seven steps by the computer... >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->>On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Paul Brown wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>>--> >-->>>-->My 1980 300D (automatic temperature control system) heater fan has >-->>>-->stopped running. The fan runs when I put 12 V across the terminals. >-->>>-->What is the diagnosis procedure? I can't find it on the W123 CD. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>--> >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:23:05 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Leaking Injector-new On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Chuck wrote: >-->Mine leaks around the base - just like a loose sparkplug you'd be getting air out of there, not fuel, it's weeping down the injector... dry it off real good with brake cleaner and then watch it while it's running... use a surgical glove and feel around the back to see if your finger gets fuel on it... john >--> >-->Chuck >-->On Nov 26, 2004, at 5:05 PM, john wrote: >--> >-->> where on the base? where the threads meet the head >-->> or along the side of the injector... that's more typical... >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Chuck wrote: >-->> >-->>> -->new to me that is my injector #2 on a 617d it bubbles around the >-->>> base >-->>> -->I will asume ( I know) it is compression leaking out -there is >-->>> some >-->>> -->diesel around it as well. >-->>> --> >-->>> -->Should I just tighten or replace the heat shield ( crush washer) ? >-->>> --> >-->>> -->Thanks >-->>> --> >-->>> -->Chuck >-->>> --> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> -- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> -- >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:28:27 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->> >It might even be that this engine is worn a bit... hard to say... each >-->> >benz I've owned or driven has a different feel to it... a >-->> non-turbo model >-->> >regardless of the displacement feels really dead to me any more... that >-->> >'80 300CD I had felt really slow after driving an 83 300SD... the 190D >-->> >felt slow after driving the 300d with a turbo... >-->> > >-->> >I wonder if a turbo could be safely fitted to your engine... >-->> >-->> Way ahead of you. From what I can gather, and this is a VERY preliminary >-->> investigation, the exact same motor was used in later cars with a >-->> turbo and >-->> a different intake. Same bore, stroke, and compression ratio, even. If >-->> it's the same head, I can probably get the parts from a junkyard. >-->> Then 174 >-->> HP and 244 lb-ft will put a BIG smile on my face. >-->> >--> >-->Remember that there are significant internal differences between the turbo >-->and nonturbo versions of the older OM617, including such things as the turbo >-->ones having oil sprays up into the underside of the pistons to help manage >-->the heat. There may be similar non-obvious but still significant differences >-->between the turbo and nonturbo versions of your motor. >-->Alec Didn't someone on the list have a 240D that someone added a turbo... didn't he also have the motor die a tragic death? Or am I mixing stories? :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:49:18 -0700 From: "junot" Subject: Re: [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) greetings ... yeah .. nice set-up, too ... it threw a rod cap at 50K miles and locked up ... i figure if u keep the boost pressures within reasonable limits .. etc. take care, junot - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > > Didn't someone on the list have a 240D that someone added a turbo... didn't > he also have the motor die a tragic death? Or am I mixing stories? :) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:44:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] adding a turbo... (was E300 long... :) thanx for popping up. :) I've thought about adding turbos to a number of Diesels over the years... stories like this keep me from doing such... that and the extra underhood heat... I've thought about adding a Banks kit to my '83 6.2L Diesel... not sure I want to though... :) Same thing with Nitrous... that "Full Throttle" episode with the '68 Mustangs pointed out that it's not a good idea either... they ended blowing one of the 289s with it! john On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, junot wrote: >-->greetings ... >--> >-->yeah .. nice set-up, too ... it threw a rod cap at 50K miles and locked up >-->... >-->i figure if u keep the boost pressures within reasonable limits .. etc. >--> >-->take care, >-->junot >--> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->> >-->> Didn't someone on the list have a 240D that someone added a turbo... >-->didn't >-->> he also have the motor die a tragic death? Or am I mixing stories? :) >-->> >-->> john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:09:11 -0700 From: "junot" Subject: [db] Re: adding a turbo... (was E300 long... :) greetings john .. i don't know if the loss of the rod cap is connected to the turbocharging of this engine ... it should be interesting to see what 50k on a turbo'd 240 engine looks like inside ... one day i'll open it up ... cheers, junot - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > I've thought about adding turbos to a number of Diesels over the > years... stories like this keep me from doing such... that and > the extra underhood heat... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:04:39 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: adding a turbo... (was E300 long... :) be sure to take pictures... :) hard to say... but typically 240D's don't have a reputation for coming apart. :) john On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, junot wrote: >-->greetings john .. >--> >-->i don't know if the loss of the rod cap is connected to the turbocharging of >-->this engine ... >-->it should be interesting to see what 50k on a turbo'd 240 engine looks like >-->inside ... >-->one day i'll open it up ... >--> >-->cheers, >-->junot >--> >--> >--> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >--> >-->> I've thought about adding turbos to a number of Diesels over the >-->> years... stories like this keep me from doing such... that and >-->> the extra underhood heat... >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1629 **********************************