From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Nov 29 16:55:24 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, November 30 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1634 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) Re: [db] prepare popcorn... 300CD, Jimmy, XJ, J10, WJ update... :) RE: [db] K&N filter RE: [db] K&N filter Re: [db] Re: the 300CD - a chevy V8? Re: [db] Re: the 300CD - a chevy V8? RE: [db] K&N filter RE: [db] K&N filter Re: [db] '83 300D RE: [db] K&N filter Re: [db] My baby got a cheap MP3 deck for Thanksgiving - sweeeet! Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:20:00 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] A few questions about my new E300D (long) On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 09:33:29AM -0500, J.B. Hebert wrote: > Don't worry... I'm well aware of the trials and tribulations of > turbocharging. I am planning on scouring the EPC and noting each and every > part difference in the motor assembly. But I would hazard a guess that if > there were internal mods, one of them would have been compression. I'll > keep everyone posted on what I find. Oddly enough, I don't think there was. I think the oil cooling of the underside of the pistons was enough to keep [stock] boost from breaking things, then used a beefed up bottom end assembly to deal with the extra pressure in the cylinders. I think compression remained the same, and it's not too surprising - lowering compression on an indirect injected diesel makes it a bit rough to start in cold areas, and 617 turbos in good shape never have that problem. I know the 602, which was offered stateside NA and turbo had differences internally, but don't know to what degree. A friend of mine keeps giving me the argument that diesels are made for turbos and I should slap a low boost setup on the 190D. I keep reminding him that it wasn't designed for it and would rather keep the car running reliably than hot rod it - if I wanted a hotrod 190, I'd get a 2.3-16 or a 190D with the factory turbo. I don't know anything about the 606. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:44:01 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] prepare popcorn... 300CD, Jimmy, XJ, J10, WJ update... :) On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 12:28:46AM -0600, Jon Filina wrote: > It's a good thing that my new popcorn popper is plugged into a surge > protector.... I think I need the protection... You might consider running an extension cord from your UPS to the popcorn popper. That failing, I suppose you could get by if you have a frying pan and a gas stove that doesn't have auto ignition (so that you have to go roaming around the house with a flashlight looking for matches to light your stove so that the water can be boiling for dinner while you are outside dealing with that !-at-^# fuse again, hoping the police don't come because some neighbor saw someone roaming around the house with a flashlight with the lights off...) > >It's amazing after 30 years just how easily I can predict her answers. ;) > > That's a two edged sword... The running joke at the office is that I'll > volunteer to work on my day off just so I won't have to spend the day > with the "old lady". 34 years of marriage will do that to you.... Heh. Seems to be a common answer coworkers too. > I can say that 'cuz the old "ball and chain" doesn't read my email. If > you don't hear from me for a while, it's a good possibility that she's > discovered my password... In which case, I'm toast... heh. my mail isn't kept on a PC, and usually the solaris login screen scares most people away :) Right now, it's probably a good thing I'm still single, since I dragged home a new toy. Most women don't have a sense of humor about *yet another* car appearing in the driveway/yard/street/etc. It doesn't matter that this toy made it home under its own power, or that it's a nice looking car in good shape that doesn't really need work, or the reason I decided to tell her that I got it. Hey, I can think of worse things for me to be doing with my time - can't find me, I'm probably in the garage. K ps - the new toy is an 87 300D, and yes, they really are rocketships. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:23:49 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: RE: [db] K&N filter A link is worth a thousand words: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm Mike Frank At 04:45 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >. I had heard about the dust problem with the K&N, but > according to thier info, they filter better due to the oiled element. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:55:22 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] K&N filter I have a video of a test conducted on three filters: paper, amsoil and k&n. actually, I have the summary chart on my server: http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/air-filters-chart.jpg what they did is setup a vaccum chamber with a guage on it. they used carbon black. in the test jig they had the filters identified... on the inlet to the vacuum pump they also put a piece of white cloth to show what got past the filter. they found that the k&n clogged up faster then the paper element and also passed a LOT of carbon black. the paper element did a good job of filtering, but also clogged up. while, of course, the amsoil filters didn't pass anything and went the longest... this test is easily repeated... never been challenged by anyone as far as I know. john On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, corey church wrote: >--> I'm not concerned with the performance "improvements" (I've never >--> noticed before), mostly just economics and consistant filtering. >--> I live in the Canadian Prairies and the cost for a paper element from >--> the jobber is about $29. For the K&N which is a factory replacement >--> (is the same size and shape of the original) is only $55. I already >--> have a setup for cleaning the filters as I have 2 already on other >--> vehicles. I had heard about the dust problem with the K&N, but >--> according to thier info, they filter better due to the oiled element. >--> My gasser commuter car has 314000km (190000 miles) on a K&N, and >--> does use oil now, but I would assume the filter is to blame - is >--> filtering more importance on the tighter tolerances of a diesel? >--> I like the idea of the foam that John had - how much would that cost, >--> do you know of other manufacturers? I could order some from rusty or >--> randy, but shipping tends to be expensive (surprise $20 brokerage >--> fees ) and a hassel since 9-11. (the think everything I order from >--> the US is C-4 or something) Not to mention the 1 month wait times to >--> recieve items from the US. >--> >--> Is there some 3rd party evidence of the poorer filtering etc.? I for >--> sure don't want to screw up the motor ($7000 rebuild just before I >--> bought it). >--> >-->Thanks for the help >-->Corey >--> >-->Thanks for the help, >-->On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:05:02 -0800 (PST), "john" >-->said: >-->> you know I had an amsoil filter on my '83 300SD... I cross referenced >-->> it to another one... if you're interested I can figure it out again... >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 Alec_Cordova-at-Dell.com wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Also, have you looked at the size of your OEM filter? That thing is >-->> >-->monstrously huge. MB generally seemed to have taken any airflow >-->> >-->limitations into consideration when choosing the air filter sizes. You >-->> >-->probably wouldn't see too much improvement with the K&N, just the >-->> >-->downside of the less effective filtration. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Get OEM replacements from Rusty, Randy, etc. If you're running an OM617, >-->> >-->Rusty sells Mann and Hengst for nearly a quarter of the price of K&N >-->> >-->(which it appears he also sells), and the Bosch filter is even less at >-->> >-->just over 20 & of the K&N price. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Alec >-->> >--> >-->> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->> >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] >-->> >-->On Behalf Of J.B. Hebert >-->> >-->Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 9:11 AM >-->> >-->To: corey church >-->> >-->Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> >-->Subject: Re: [db] K&N filter >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Yes. It doesn't filter as well as OEM filter. K&N filters are >-->> >-->primarily >-->> >-->for performance applications, and they flow better than OEM. However, >-->> >-->numerous diesel lists indicate that they do not filter nearly as well as >-->> >--> >-->> >-->the stock paper filter. In a turbocharged application, the turbo more >-->> >-->than >-->> >-->makes up for the difference in flow, so it really boils down to money at >-->> >--> >-->> >-->that point. And for my money, I'd rather pay a little more up front for >-->> >--> >-->> >-->the filter than down the road in a worn motor. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->But that's just my $0.02. :) >-->> >--> >-->> >-->J.B. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->At 09:58 AM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >-->> >-->>I'm considering a K&N filter for my new 300sd. I plan to put a number >-->> >-->>of miles on the car and the K&N is less than 2 paper element filters. >-->> >-->I >-->> >-->>already have K&N's in my 7.3l ford and my commuter car with no >-->> >-->problems, >-->> >-->>but does anyone have any info why they shouldn't be used? >-->> >-->>Thanks >-->> >-->>Corey >-->> >-->>-- >-->> >-->> corey church >-->> >-->> coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->-- >--> corey church >--> coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:25:27 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Re: the 300CD - a chevy V8? On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 12:02:53PM -0800, john wrote: > this is kind of what I expected to hear... :) > > On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Curtis wrote: > >-->Hey John, > >-->I think a Chevy 305 is a boat anchor in any form. Putting a 305 in a > >-->Mercedes should be considered only if you are planning on sinking it. ;) LOL. Curtis nailed that one on the head. I don't know where to start on the list of what sucked about the 305, so I'll let you pick. Want me to start with cams that like to go flat (from the factory) or bores so small that the valves had to be shrunk below "woefully inadequate" so that they didn't collide with the top of the bore. One could start the argument that they were worse than the heads on the original AMC v8 (the 250/287/327), but I *KNOW* that comparison doesn't belong on this list. Chevy High Performance magazine summed it up best with a project they ran on a malibu wagon with a 305 they called "Project Three Oh Why". > >--> As far as recouping your cost's, I think that if everything was given > >-->to you free and you already knew of somebody hat was willing to pay for > >-->a 305 MB then you might get lucky. :) > > "lucky" is not something I can count on... ;) I prefer wisdom, > strategy and a sure thing... rofl... the words "Chevy" and "Mercedes" > typically do NOT go well together... :) About the only time Chevy and Mercedes belong in the same sentence is something like "I drove to the junkyard in my mercedes, and boy were there a lot of chevies in there" :) I really should can it with the chevy bit, since I'm ending up with one sometime in the next couple of months. At least it's a diesel, and there's plenty of parts in junkyards when^H^H^H^Hif I need them :) Anyways, I think it would cost less in the long run to fix the driveline in the 300CD by taking a trip to a junkyard and finding a wreck. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:18:09 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: the 300CD - a chevy V8? ok, I get it. :) funny... three oh why. :) john On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 12:02:53PM -0800, john wrote: >-->> this is kind of what I expected to hear... :) >-->> >-->> On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Curtis wrote: >-->> >-->Hey John, >-->> >-->I think a Chevy 305 is a boat anchor in any form. Putting a 305 in a >-->> >-->Mercedes should be considered only if you are planning on sinking it. ;) >--> >-->LOL. Curtis nailed that one on the head. I don't know where to start on the >-->list of what sucked about the 305, so I'll let you pick. Want me to start >-->with cams that like to go flat (from the factory) or bores so small that >-->the valves had to be shrunk below "woefully inadequate" so that they didn't >-->collide with the top of the bore. One could start the argument that they >-->were worse than the heads on the original AMC v8 (the 250/287/327), but I >-->*KNOW* that comparison doesn't belong on this list. >--> >-->Chevy High Performance magazine summed it up best with a project they ran >-->on a malibu wagon with a 305 they called "Project Three Oh Why". >--> >-->> >--> As far as recouping your cost's, I think that if everything was given >-->> >-->to you free and you already knew of somebody hat was willing to pay for >-->> >-->a 305 MB then you might get lucky. :) >-->> >-->> "lucky" is not something I can count on... ;) I prefer wisdom, >-->> strategy and a sure thing... rofl... the words "Chevy" and "Mercedes" >-->> typically do NOT go well together... :) >--> >-->About the only time Chevy and Mercedes belong in the same sentence is >-->something like "I drove to the junkyard in my mercedes, and boy were there >-->a lot of chevies in there" :) >--> >-->I really should can it with the chevy bit, since I'm ending up with one >-->sometime in the next couple of months. At least it's a diesel, and there's >-->plenty of parts in junkyards when^H^H^H^Hif I need them :) >--> >-->Anyways, I think it would cost less in the long run to fix the driveline >-->in the 300CD by taking a trip to a junkyard and finding a wreck. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:37:28 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: RE: [db] K&N filter It's contradicted by both of the independent tests I've posted. Amsoil tests lower in efficiency and dirt capacity. Mike Frank At 05:55 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >this test is easily repeated... never been challenged >by anyone as far as I know. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:51:49 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] K&N filter On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Mike Frank wrote: >-->It's contradicted by both of the independent tests I've posted. Amsoil >-->tests lower in efficiency and dirt capacity. I'll look at the links later... john >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> >--> >--> >-->At 05:55 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >--> >-->>this test is easily repeated... never been challenged >-->>by anyone as far as I know. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:10:51 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] '83 300D On Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 12:28:58AM -0800, john wrote: > Need to install a stereo, finish fixing the injection system, > clean up a few things, check everything out and then find it a home. Hope it hasn't run you through the ringer or anything. > It's only got 137,000 miles on it... very clean. Not sure what > happened to it that it ended up with the problems it had, but they > aren't serious... just stupid... Amazing how easily some people > will give up on a car if they don't know what they're doing. :) It being clean and having low miles should help you find a buyer easier. A good chunk of the biodiesel crowd hasn't realized one of the benefits of diesels is that the engines last forever if given oil changes and driven regularly. They'll be happy to have found a early eighties car with less than 150k on it with a clean interior. Lots of people will give up on a car for simple things. Over half of the fleet is stuff that someone else gave up on and I got for a song, that really didn't need anything too difficult to get rolling again. It is unfortunate that there are so many dishonest people out there that will write thousand dollar estimates for what could be a hundred dollar fix. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:02:41 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] K&N filter glancing at these links, the first link doesn't measure the same items and seems a bit informal. the 2nd link data did not seem to contradict the info I saw in the video. look at the dirt passed. yes the paper elements do filter better, but clog up sooner. restriction to air flow is a bogus point as the paper elements flow more than adequately. cost of replacement filters is the advantage of either k&n or amsoil. you also have to factor in the various shapes and sizes of filters, there will be differences there as well. none of the tests compared that. different filter types/shapers were used... my argument about filtering still seems to stand, k&n doesn't filter dust well and is a royal pain to clean... and they're overpriced compared to the amsoil filters... but if you are interested in good filtering, it looks like paper is the answer... but look at the variation in the paper realm too! lots of variables... john On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Mike Frank wrote: >-->A link is worth a thousand words: >--> >-->http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm >-->http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> >-->At 04:45 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >-->>. I had heard about the dust problem with the K&N, but >-->> according to thier info, they filter better due to the oiled element. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:53:47 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] My baby got a cheap MP3 deck for Thanksgiving - sweeeet! On Sun, Nov 28, 2004 at 06:54:36PM -0600, Alec Cordova wrote: > I'm not a big fan of the Sony controls, the CD changer stopped working a > while back, the LCD display on the head unit succumbed to the heat, and the > blasted thing decided not to eject a cassette, so it was about time to stop > being the cheapskate that I am and do something about it. FWIW, the Sony deck that came in the powerchoke had a dead CD player in it. One of my brothers who plays with stereos pretty much told me that Sonys are to be avoided for that very reason. I hate spending money on stereos for cars, so the functioning except the CD player sony got moved to the motorhome that is going away (as a mechanic's special, haven't run it in almost two years and my priorities have changed), and its pioneer deck went into the powerchoke. > I'm able to fit nearly a dozen albums on one disc, and the radio will > display the folder and file names or the MP3 ID3 data tags. Now I just have > to start organizing and transferring my 35+ GB of MP3s onto discs and I'm > all set for fun. The new car (87 300D) came with an alpine CD/MP3 player that didn't work. Seller mentioned it was flakey for a while, then just up and quit. Turned out to be a twofold problem - the fuse on the lead from the battery to the deck was not only corroded, but had loose leads, which accounted for a 12v signal that was only reading 3-4v on the volt meter sometimes. That, and a CD jammed in the CD player was preventing it from powering up. Like I said, I hate spending money on stereos, so it came apart. Applying power to the CD deck motor spit the CD out, and the deck was happy again. With Alec's comment, though, the CD that was jammed in it was obviously an MP3 CD - it has literally ninety songs on it. I need to grab a CD mailer on my way home and stick it in the mail. I would never have spent money on one of these things (I would have put a becker in it and faced my brother killing me for doing so instead), but since it's there, it's pretty nifty. Good to know that they make these MP3 decks that inexpensively, in case I need one. I haven't told my brother yet, as he'll no doubt want me to stick some gnarly amp in it or something. This little bugger came with a 140 something amp alternator in it. (!) K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1634 **********************************