From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sun Dec 19 13:46:37 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, December 19 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1663 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] stop lever stays down RE: [db] 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing RE: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing RE: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing RE: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:35:52 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: [db] stop lever stays down Here's one for you guys with 601/2/3 engines - ever run into a situation where the stop lever stays down? Obviously, the car won't start :) Pushing the pedal down seemingly does not change this either. I was under the hood of the 87 300D trying to figure out where the fuel smell is coming from, and noticed it was depressed. Manually operating the throttle cable by hand didn't change anything. This is the second time the car didn't want to start in the driveway. Starts with difficulty on the street - like it's getting air into the system and has to reprime itself. There is evidence of fuel on top of the IP, haven't narrowed down exactly where it is coming from yet. FWIW, the driveway is about a 10-15 degree incline. When the car started last (on the street), it ran seemingly fine, and started a couple more times while I was running errands. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks... K ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:02:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing one more note... avoid aftermarket or generic components... I used an aftermarket aux heat pump on my 124 series and it burned up my climate control... saved $20 on the pump, but it only cost me $150 to replace the computer... john On Sat, 18 Dec 2004, Sam Williams wrote: >-->Noah, >--> >-->I also offer congratulations on a fine first car! >--> >-->Print out and keep that excellent post from Alec--he covered all the >-->important points. >--> >-->George_Murphy-at-Compuserve.com, whom he recommended, is a great resource for >-->parts and knowledge on your ACC system. He is the only source I know for >-->the special soft brushes for the blower motor. Generic brushes that fit may >-->be too hard and damage the commutator. >--> >-->I recommend you unplug the recirculating pump before it blows (if it hasn't, >-->already) the control module. As Alec said, it isn't strictly necessary for >-->you to get heat--but it is helpful in heavy traffic on very cold days. >--> >-->Enjoy your new car! Some think it's the best model MB made. >--> >-->Sam >--> >--> >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >-->Behalf Of Alec Cordova >-->Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 3:05 PM >-->To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->Subject: RE: [db] 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing >--> >-->First of all, congratulations on having what we regulars consider to be a >-->great first car. The bad news is that you'll be spoiled and have a hard time >-->accepting a less well engineered car in the future. ;-) >--> >-->Now on to your questions. >--> >-->If the pump motor you're talking about is the one near the fender for the >-->front right tire, that is the auxiliary water pump. It's job is to keep >-->enough warm coolant circulating when the motor is near idle so that you can >-->get heat inside. At anything much above idle, it is not a necessary part of >-->the heating system. If that motor breaks in certain ways, it can draw too >-->much electrical power and hurt the climate control brains. Some people add >-->an inline fuse to the power wire for that motor. I think you could also just >-->unplug it and not hurt heating above idle. >--> >-->If the thing up on the firewall looks kind of like an upright cylinder and >-->it's just a little to the passenger side of center near the top of the >-->firewall, that's probably the monovalve. Based on an electrical signal it >-->receives from the brains, it allows more or less warm coolant to flow >-->through the heater core. It's not a motor, so you won't hear anything from >-->it. It uses a thin rubber diaphragm, and those sometimes crack or tear over >-->time. If that happens, you don't get enough warm coolant through the heater >-->core, so the system blows air that's not very warm, especially when the car >-->is at speed. That "monovalve insert" can be easily replaced for not much >-->money, but if you do feel warm air coming from the heater when you're moving >-->fast enough for any air to blow through the system, the monovalve is >-->probably still fine. >--> >-->The blower motor is a common failure at 15 or 20 years. For now, it may work >-->if you put the system on defrost mode, but that will only give you full heat >-->and full fan with no way to turn down either. The blower motor lives above >-->the front passenger's feet. A few screws to remove the lower cover panel and >-->you should be able to crawl into the footwell and see the few more screws >-->that hold the blower motor in place. Although a replacement blower is in the >-->neighborhood of a couple hundred bucks, you may be able to bring yours back >-->to life for a good while longer for a good bit less money. Remove it from >-->the footwell, pull the thing straight out of its plastic housing, use some >-->compressed air to blow away all the dust, drop a little automatic >-->transmission fluid on the bearings, and if that doesn't restore it, you can >-->get replacement brushes for the motor from George Murphy >-->(George_Murphy-at-compuserve.com last I knew). He can also describe how to >-->install them, but if I can do it with a cheap Radio Shack soldering iron, >-->you should be able to handle it. >--> >-->First thing to check, though, is the fuses. The fuses MB used have a couple >-->of drawbacks. They can break in ways that are very hard to see, and they can >-->develop a thin layer of corrosion that can affect their performance. The >-->fuse panel is under the hood on the firewall on the driver's side under a >-->mostly rectangular black plastic cover with two big thumbscrew wheels. Try >-->removing and reinserting any relevant fuses. Better yet, spend just a few >-->bucks to get replacements for all of them. >--> >-->Sorry if I've given too much or too basic information, but I want to help >-->make sure you're happy with the car and become another incurable dieselhead >-->like the rest of us. ;-) >--> >-->Regards, >-->Alec Cordova >-->Taylor, Texas >-->89 300CE, 179K >--> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Noah Dentzel >-->> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:19 PM >-->> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> Subject: [db] 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing >-->> >-->> >-->> The pump motor on the front right runs then begins to pulsate, I don't >-->> know what the other motorlike thing is up on the fire wall that the >-->> heater hose connects to, it is silent...and the blower does not work. >-->> I do hear the water moving around. >-->> >-->> Where to go from here? I would like to have a little heat on my way >-->> to school in the morning. >-->> >-->> Thanks, >-->> Noah Dentzel, 11th grade (this is my first car) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:53:57 -0800 From: Noah Dentzel Subject: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing Wow, thank you all for such great advice and speedy response, I will be looking into all of that tomorrow. It will be nice to be able to not freeze in the morning (believe it or not California can get cold in the winter, down to the low 30's in the early morning, burrr). The other main problem I am facing is: Whenever the car is in idle (especially if it is in gear but stopped) the engine rumbles and it shakes the whole car. Its like a thump thump .... (but really fast) We suppose that it could have to do with the engine mounts, but what do I know. The engine sounds and runs fine, it is just shaky, especially in idle and very low speeds. When it is warmed up the shakes are less powerful, however, it really does need to be fixed. I looked down at what I think are the motor mounts and they "seemed" alright, but I'm not sure. Happy holidays to all. PS. Tankyou very much Alec for the wonderful response! Sincerely, - -Noah Dentzel On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:18:30 -0800, Noah Dentzel wrote: > The pump motor on the front right runs then begins to pulsate, I don't > know what the other motorlike thing is up on the fire wall that the > heater hose connects to, it is silent...and the blower does not work. > I do hear the water moving around. > > Where to go from here? I would like to have a little heat on my way > to school in the morning. > > Thanks, > Noah Dentzel, 11th grade (this is my first car) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 10:13:34 -0500 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: RE: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing What does the exhaust look like when the car is shaking? If you have a smoke problem, you might well have an ignition miss problem. If not smoking, I would think that the engine mounts are a good bet. If the mounts are collapsed so the engine is basically sitting on the car body, normal engine vibration will make the car feel like it is about to disassemble itself. It might be difficult to simply look at the mounts and judge good or bad. The ones I have replaced didn't look bad until compared against new parts. Given the age of the car, I would consider the mounts candidates for replacement unless you have evidence of them being replaced by the PO. (previous owner) Steve Morelen Raleigh, NC 84, 87 300D's From: Noah Dentzel <ndentzel-at-gmail.com> Reply-To: Noah Dentzel <ndentzel-at-gmail.com> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:53:57 -0800 Wow, thank you all for such great advice and speedy response, I will be looking into all of that tomorrow. It will be nice to be able to not freeze in the morning (believe it or not California can get cold in the winter, down to the low 30's in the early morning, burrr). The other main problem I am facing is: Whenever the car is in idle (especially if it is in gear but stopped) the engine rumbles and it shakes the whole car. Its like a thump thump .... (but really fast) We suppose that it could have to do with the engine mounts, but what do I know. The engine sounds and runs fine, it is just shaky, especially in idle and very low speeds. When it is warmed up the shakes are less powerful, however, it really does need to be fixed. I looked down at what I think are the motor mounts and they "seemed" alright, but I'm not sure. Happy holidays to all. PS. Tankyou very much Alec for the wonderful response! Sincerely, - -Noah Dentzel On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:18:30 -0800, Noah Dentzel <ndentzel-at-gmail.com> wrote: > The pump motor on the front right runs then begins to pulsate, I don't > know what the other motorlike thing is up on the fire wall that the > heater hose connects to, it is silent...and the blower does not work. > I do hear the water moving around. > > Where to go from here? I would like to have a little heat on my way > to school in the morning. > > Thanks, > Noah Dentzel, 11th grade (this is my first car) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 07:54:14 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing I think you're on to the right idea... I'd take a look at the injectors... could be one that isn't firing right at an idle... john On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Steve Morelen wrote: >-->What does the exhaust look like when the car is shaking? If you have a >-->smoke problem, you might well have an ignition miss problem. If not >-->smoking, I would think that the engine mounts are a good bet. If the mounts >-->are collapsed so the engine is basically sitting on the car body, normal >-->engine vibration will make the car feel like it is about to disassemble >-->itself. It might be difficult to simply look at the mounts and judge good >-->or bad. The ones I have replaced didn't look bad until compared against new >-->parts. Given the age of the car, I would consider the mounts candidates for >-->replacement unless you have evidence of them being replaced by the PO. >-->(previous owner) >--> >-->Steve Morelen >-->Raleigh, NC >-->84, 87 300D's >--> >-->From: Noah Dentzel <ndentzel-at-gmail.com> >-->Reply-To: Noah Dentzel <ndentzel-at-gmail.com> >-->To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->Subject: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing >-->Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:53:57 -0800 >--> >-->Wow, thank you all for such great advice and speedy response, I will >-->be looking into all of that tomorrow. It will be nice to be able to >-->not freeze in the morning (believe it or not California can get cold >-->in the winter, down to the low 30's in the early morning, burrr). The >-->other main problem I am facing is: Whenever the car is in idle >-->(especially if it is in gear but stopped) the engine rumbles and it >-->shakes the whole car. Its like a thump thump .... (but really fast) We >-->suppose that it could have to do with the engine mounts, but what do I >-->know. The engine sounds and runs fine, it is just shaky, especially in >-->idle and very low speeds. When it is warmed up the shakes are less >-->powerful, however, it really does need to be fixed. I looked down at >-->what I think are the motor mounts and they "seemed" alright, but >-->I'm >-->not sure. Happy holidays to all. >-->PS. Tankyou very much Alec for the wonderful response! >-->Sincerely, >-->-Noah Dentzel >--> >--> >-->On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:18:30 -0800, Noah Dentzel <ndentzel-at-gmail.com> >-->wrote: >-->> The pump motor on the front right runs then begins to pulsate, I don't >-->> know what the other motorlike thing is up on the fire wall that the >-->> heater hose connects to, it is silent...and the blower does not work. >-->> I do hear the water moving around. >-->> >-->> Where to go from here? I would like to have a little heat on my way >-->> to school in the morning. >-->> >-->> Thanks, >-->> Noah Dentzel, 11th grade (this is my first car) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 10:23:19 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing The couple of times I've seen the difference realized with new motor mounts (a W123 240D and my W124 300CE), I have been truly astounded at the difference, especially on the 240D. If they're original, they gotta go. I believe an 81 300D also has a "rack damper bolt" on the underside of the injection pump. This is supposed to be adjustable to smooth the idle somewhat, and it was superceded by an upgraded model that does an even better job. I don't know how to fiddle with it or quite how it does its thing, and I'm sure that motor mounts would provide a much more significant improvement, but it's one more thing to keep in mind. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 9:54 AM > To: Steve Morelen > Cc: ndentzel-at-gmail.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing > > > I think you're on to the right idea... > > I'd take a look at the injectors... could be one that isn't > firing right at an idle... > > john > > > On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Steve Morelen wrote: > > >-->What does the exhaust look like when the car is shaking? If > you have a > >-->smoke problem, you might well have an ignition miss problem. If not > >-->smoking, I would think that the engine mounts are a good bet. > If the mounts > >-->are collapsed so the engine is basically sitting on the car > body, normal > >-->engine vibration will make the car feel like it is about to > disassemble > >-->itself. It might be difficult to simply look at the mounts > and judge good > >-->or bad. The ones I have replaced didn't look bad until > compared against new > >-->parts. Given the age of the car, I would consider the mounts > candidates for > >-->replacement unless you have evidence of them being replaced by the PO. > >-->(previous owner) > >--> > >-->Steve Morelen > >-->Raleigh, NC > >-->84, 87 300D's > >--> > >-->From: Noah Dentzel <ndentzel-at-gmail.com> > >-->Reply-To: Noah Dentzel <ndentzel-at-gmail.com> > >-->To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >-->Subject: [db] Re: 1981 300D Heater Not Blowing > >-->Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:53:57 -0800 > >--> > >-->Wow, thank you all for such great advice and speedy response, I will > >-->be looking into all of that tomorrow. It will be nice to be able to > >-->not freeze in the morning (believe it or not California can get cold > >-->in the winter, down to the low 30's in the early morning, burrr). The > >-->other main problem I am facing is: Whenever the car is in idle > >-->(especially if it is in gear but stopped) the engine rumbles and it > >-->shakes the whole car. Its like a thump thump .... (but really fast) We > >-->suppose that it could have to do with the engine mounts, but what do I > >-->know. The engine sounds and runs fine, it is just shaky, especially in > >-->idle and very low speeds. When it is warmed up the shakes are less > >-->powerful, however, it really does need to be fixed. I looked down at > >-->what I think are the motor mounts and they "seemed" > alright, but > >-->I'm > >-->not sure. Happy holidays to all. > >-->PS. Tankyou very much Alec for the wonderful response! > >-->Sincerely, > >-->-Noah Dentzel > >--> > >--> > >-->On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:18:30 -0800, Noah Dentzel > <ndentzel-at-gmail.com> > >-->wrote: > >-->> The pump motor on the front right runs then begins to > pulsate, I don't > >-->> know what the other motorlike thing is up on the fire > wall that the > >-->> heater hose connects to, it is silent...and the blower > does not work. > >-->> I do hear the water moving around. > >-->> > >-->> Where to go from here? I would like to have a little > heat on my way > >-->> to school in the morning. > >-->> > >-->> Thanks, > >-->> Noah Dentzel, 11th grade (this is my first car) > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1663 **********************************