From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Dec 23 10:46:23 2004 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, December 23 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1671 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Freezing temps [db] emission tests Re: [db] emission tests Re: [db] emission tests RE: [db] Another Strange electric problem! RE: [db] emission tests Re: [db] emission tests RE: [db] Another Strange electric problem! Re: [db] emission tests RE: [db] emission tests Re: [db] emission tests Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:35:45 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Freezing temps Yeah, thanks! ;) Jim/ > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > >-->Well, the F-350 started up okay after work. Cranked for about 20 > >-->seconds then roared to life. Ran real rough for about 2 minutes and > >-->then smoothed out. I hope it gets a little warmer ;) > > > yeah, I think it's going to hit the 50's tomorrow... in your case, > you'll be lucky if it hits thawing temperatures before April... ;) > > john > > >--> > >-->Jim/ > >--> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:26:13 -0500 From: "wmpless" Subject: [db] emission tests Hi, one of the reasons for buying the 86 190D was that in Ontario vehicles older than 20 years are exempt from e-tests. For diesel engines the inspector is checking for excessive smoke when engine is idling. Considering this a complete waste of time and money. Wiard From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: Freezing temps well, at 40 degrees my '91 300d had no trouble passing his emissions test this morning... 20% opacity limit, they used the cig lighter to get the tach reading... put me on the dyno even... trying to hold this thing at 25mph was a bit tricky, the turbo WANTED to go faster... :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:07:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] emission tests well, it's only a waste of my time and money... so I don't expect it to stop here... interesting that while on the rollers my ABS light came on... john On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, wmpless wrote: >-->Hi, one of the reasons for buying the 86 190D was that in Ontario vehicles >-->older than 20 years are exempt from e-tests. For diesel engines the inspector >-->is checking for excessive smoke when engine is idling. Considering this a >-->complete waste of time and money. Wiard >-->From: john >-->Subject: Re: [db] RE: Freezing temps >--> >-->well, at 40 degrees my '91 300d had no trouble passing >-->his emissions test this morning... 20% opacity limit, >-->they used the cig lighter to get the tach reading... put >-->me on the dyno even... trying to hold this thing at 25mph >-->was a bit tricky, the turbo WANTED to go faster... :) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:34:06 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] emission tests Diesels are not tested here at all. All gas cars less than 20 years old only. Jim/ > Hi, one of the reasons for buying the 86 190D was that in Ontario vehicles > older than 20 years are exempt from e-tests. For diesel engines the inspector > is checking for excessive smoke when engine is idling. Considering this a > complete waste of time and money. Wiard > From: john > Subject: Re: [db] RE: Freezing temps > > well, at 40 degrees my '91 300d had no trouble passing > his emissions test this morning... 20% opacity limit, > they used the cig lighter to get the tach reading... put > me on the dyno even... trying to hold this thing at 25mph > was a bit tricky, the turbo WANTED to go faster... :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:55:24 -0500 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: RE: [db] Another Strange electric problem! Hello Greg, Checking the glow system is a good idea. I would think about the starter motor if the glow system is in good order. I've seen posts on other MB lists about starters going bad slowly, drawing too much current, etc. Regarding reaming, I've used a proper-size drill in a pinch as a substitute for the reamer. I recommend reaming if you have a carbon build-up problem....it can make glow plug removal difficult if too much carbon gets packed around the plug. Steve Morelen Raleigh, NC From: Greg Fiorentino <gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] Another Strange electric problem! Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 17:05:10 -0800 Sam Williams wrote: >Ron, > >Could be wiring for the alternator but I think you are on right >track with >the pre-heaters. Try removing the fuse and see if that helps. I >wouldn't >want to mess with testing amperage when it's 50+. Check for >corrosion on >battery cables where attached to connection for battery. > >Be careful tightening alternator belt. I bought a used car that >came with >new alternator; the ape that installed it did a good job tightening >belts. >Not only did he destroy the adjusting mechanism, water pump bearing >died >first week I had the car and new (probably rebuilt) Bosch >alternator's >bearings died within the year--despite my less enthusiastic belt >installation when replacing water pump. > >Happy summer, > >Sam > > > I have been having trouble starting the '79 300 TD. I thought I had it tracked down to the Alternator Brushes/Voltage regulator. Replaced that, battery shows 14.5 volts at idle with new brushes, so it seems OK. Battery is 2 year old DieHard. Symptoms continue: Won't start, starter slows down and battery drains quickly. Tentative diagnosis: Shorted glow plug. Manual says this is possible with this slow-glow system wired in series. As soon as I have the battery charged, I will try to glow while measuring the voltage drop across each plug. Manual says I need to ream the prechamber as part of changing plugs. It would seem prudent to do so if coking is causing a short. Any thoughts or suggestions? TIA (I have started using Thunderbird instead of Eudora, and haven't figured out sigs yet.) Greg - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.3 - Release Date: 12/21/04 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:04:54 -0600 From: Subject: RE: [db] emission tests >interesting that while on the rollers my ABS light came on... > >john Could that be because your front wheels and rear wheels were at very different speeds? Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:25:21 -0800 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] emission tests john wrote: well, it's only a waste of my time and money... so I don't expect it to stop here... interesting that while on the rollers my ABS light came on... john On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, wmpless wrote: -->Hi, one of the reasons for buying the 86 190D was that in Ontario vehicles -->older than 20 years are exempt from e-tests. For diesel engines the inspector -->is checking for excessive smoke when engine is idling. Considering this a -->complete waste of time and money. Wiard -->From: john -->Subject: Re: [db] RE: Freezing temps --> -->well, at 40 degrees my '91 300d had no trouble passing -->his emissions test this morning... 20% opacity limit, -->they used the cig lighter to get the tach reading... put -->me on the dyno even... trying to hold this thing at 25mph -->was a bit tricky, the turbo WANTED to go faster... :) --> Just did the '84 turbo yesterday...you sure are right how hard it is to keep that speed..it's just at the point that the turbo wants to take off. The wife's '79 TD is now exempt in WA. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/04 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:54:45 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" Subject: RE: [db] Another Strange electric problem! Greg, I'm in freezing Central Texas (for Texans, this is brutally cold--it is supposed to hit the teens (f) at night) and agree that the wait for serial glow plugs is a minor problem. Mine are 30 years old and seem pretty reliable. If I planned to embark on a life of crime, would get another vehicle to use as the getaway car. I thought that coke buildup could short out a plug. Occasionally, over the years, my car has been hard to start, ran roughly until warm. Guessing coke to be the cause, I then drive more aggressively, drag race cement trucks at stop-lights, take every opportunity to shift late and floor the accelerator on hills. Soon things get back to normal. Maybe the assumed cause and effect are erroneous but the cure seems to work. Diesels do not reward you for driving them gently. Having had few problems over the years, never considered investing in a pre-chamber reamer. Do consider visiting a diesel injection shop every decade or so to have injectors cleaned and balanced--might ask them to clean pre-chambers next time. The test for serial plugs is voltage drop from plug to plug. If I had serious starting problems, might suspect other causes than glow plugs. As your starter wears down battery quickly I would have battery tested next. Good batteries usually last 4-5 years but yours may be dying prematurely. How old is the starter? They slow down, draw excessive current when worn. Best of luck with this problem. Happy Holidays. Sam - -----Original Message----- I'm in balmy Vancouver WA. We seldom get freezing weather here. The car is garaged and it has never been much of a problem (until now). The extra few seconds is not a big deal. I have been under the impression (possibly wrong) the the slow glow was more reliable if slower. Thanks for the response. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:40:15 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] emission tests I guess 24 years is the cutoff... this year pre-1980 vehicles are exempt... looks like SuperDawg is in the clear in 2007... maybe he'll be done by then... ;) john http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/cars/emischeckfaqs.htm The 2002 Washington State Legislature passed Substitute Senate Bill 6329, which exempts from emission testing those hybrid vehicles that obtain an Environmental Protection Agency city fuel economy rating of at least 50 miles per gallon. As a result of this law, the Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius will be exempt from the emission testing that would normally have been required of them when they become five years old. Currently, the city fuel economy of the Honda Civic Hybrid falls just short of qualifying the Honda Civic Hybrid for this exemption. More information on hybrid vehicles is available in the annual Fuel Economy Guide at www.fueleconomy.gov * How often does my vehicle need to be tested? Gasoline and diesel vehicles at least five years old and up to 25 years old need an Emission Check every other year. Your registration renewal notice will tell you if your vehicle needs a test. This chart shows vehicles that need to test in 2004 through 2008. Year Vehicles requiring a test 2004 1980 - 1994, even model-years only, and 1997s, 1999s 2005 1981 - 1995, odd model-years only, and 1996s, 1998s, 2000s 2006 1982 - 1994, even model years and 1997s, 1999s, 2001s 2007 1983 - 1995, odd model years and 1996s, 1998s, 2000s, 2002s 2008 1984 - 1994, even model-years and 1997s, 1999s, 2001s, 2003s * Are there other times when my vehicle needs to be tested? Yes. It needs to be tested when you transfer the ownership to a new owner. However, if the transfer is between immediate family members or between co-owners, the test is unnecessary. Another time you may need to test is when an out-of-state vehicle is brought into one of the emission test areas -- Clark, King, Pierce, Snohomish, or Spokane Counties. We test those vehicles according to the year, as shown in the chart above. * What if my vehicle is out of the area and it needs an emission test? Do NOT have your vehicle emission tested in another state. That test is NOT valid in Washington. Obtain Ecology Form No. 020-9, Application for Temporary Exemption from Emission Testing. This form is available in several ways: contact a Department of Licensing agent, e-mail the Department of Ecology, or download an Out-of-Area Form. Please note that your vehicle must be tested within 15 days of returning to Washington State * How much does the Emission Check cost? The fee is $15, cash, check, or credit card. The fee is paid at the test station. The test stations will accept no denomination larger than a $50 bill. There is no charge for the first re-test of a vehicle that fails the initial test. * What should I do before the test? You do not have to do anything special. A few tips to remember are: o Don't repair your vehicle before you test. If your vehicle fails, you may need to apply for a waiver. Any repairs done before the test will not count toward a waiver. See the information on waivers in the next section below, "Who Can Repair My Vehicle"? o Make sure that your tires are properly inflated. o Make sure your vehicle is fully warmed up before the test. Shortly before the test, drive for 15 minutes on the freeway. In cold weather, drive longer. o If your vehicle is missing a gas cap, it will need to be replaced before the vehicle can be tested. o Vehicles with exhaust leaks or idling too fast (greater than 1100 rpm) cannot be tested. o Having your vehicle's registration or renewal notice with you speeds up the test process. * Who can repair my vehicle? Many repairs can be made inexpensively. You may perform the repairs yourself or you may hire someone to do the repairs. However, state law recognizes that certain repairs may be too costly for some motorists. Your vehicle could be eligible for a waiver from meeting emission standards if it fails a retest and meets the criteria listed for a waiver. WAIVER CRITERIA: Registered owners of 1980 or older vehicles who have spent a minimum of $100 on diagnosis and appropriate repairs with an AES; (see back of emission test report, under First Test and read FAIL) can apply for and may receive a waiver. A minimum of $150 applies to 1981 and newer vehicles. The AES technicians have received special training and are familiar with the Emission Check Program repair requirements. On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Diesels are not tested here at all. All gas cars less than 20 years >-->old only. >--> >-->Jim/ >--> >-->> Hi, one of the reasons for buying the 86 190D was that in Ontario vehicles >-->> older than 20 years are exempt from e-tests. For diesel engines the >-->inspector >-->> is checking for excessive smoke when engine is idling. Considering this a >-->> complete waste of time and money. Wiard >-->> From: john >-->> Subject: Re: [db] RE: Freezing temps >-->> >-->> well, at 40 degrees my '91 300d had no trouble passing >-->> his emissions test this morning... 20% opacity limit, >-->> they used the cig lighter to get the tach reading... put >-->> me on the dyno even... trying to hold this thing at 25mph >-->> was a bit tricky, the turbo WANTED to go faster... :) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:41:52 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] emission tests On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 Alec_Cordova-at-Dell.com wrote: >-->>interesting that while on the rollers my ABS light came on... >-->>john >--> >-->Could that be because your front wheels and rear wheels were at very >-->different speeds? >-->Alec yeah, that might be it... ;) I wonder what my traction control system would have been doing had it not had all the magic smoke released... :) hey, if anyone runs across and ASD Module out there cheap, please keep me in mind... someday I'd like to fix it... not willing to spend $400 or more right now for something that causes me to go sideways on wet roads when it kicks in... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:44:16 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] emission tests it is a challenge, the '91 300d kicks in even earlier, it's amazing in traffic how snappy that thing can be... getting onto I-5 express lanes from Mercer is always interesting... I have to cut across four lanes of basically stopped traffic to move from Terry over and across before the express lane ramps... it seems when this thing is still kind of cold it'll take off like a little rocket ship... so if I see a 124-sized hole, I'm there... :) john On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Greg Fiorentino wrote: >-->john wrote: >--> >--> well, it's only a waste of my time and money... so I don't expect >-->it to stop here... >--> >-->interesting that while on the rollers my ABS light came on... >--> >-->john >--> >-->On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, wmpless wrote: >--> >--> >--> >--> -->Hi, one of the reasons for buying the 86 190D was that in Ontario vehicles >-->-->older than 20 years are exempt from e-tests. For diesel engines the inspector >-->-->is checking for excessive smoke when engine is idling. Considering this a >-->-->complete waste of time and money. Wiard >-->-->From: john >-->-->Subject: Re: [db] RE: Freezing temps >-->--> >-->-->well, at 40 degrees my '91 300d had no trouble passing >-->-->his emissions test this morning... 20% opacity limit, >-->-->they used the cig lighter to get the tach reading... put >-->-->me on the dyno even... trying to hold this thing at 25mph >-->-->was a bit tricky, the turbo WANTED to go faster... :) >-->--> >--> >--> >-->Just did the '84 turbo yesterday...you sure are right how hard it is to keep that speed..it's just at the point >-->that the turbo wants to take off. The wife's '79 TD is now exempt in WA. >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1671 **********************************