From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jan 4 09:38:12 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, January 4 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1694 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Biodiesel Re: [db] 87 300D (124 chassis) stereo and speaker replacement Re: [db] Biodiesel Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) [db] 84 300SD starting problems Re: [db] 190D Glow light [db] MPG up to 25.25 Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Re: [db] 190D Glow light Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) RE: [db] 84 300SD starting problems Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 08:13:58 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Biodiesel > >I found a supplier of biodiesel very near me. I can buy 100% soy > > biodiesel if I bring my own container. They sell only 2% at their > > pumps. The woman confirmed what you guys were saying... the soy > > biodiesel gels quicker than dino diesel. What kind of additive can > > I put in to stop the gelling? I'd like to try the 100% biodiesel > > in my F-350. > > > > TIA! > > > > Jim/ > > > I would strongly recommend a 50% blend for winter, > and 100% in warmer months. (in Seattle march-November) > My girlfriend was running 100% and she had a real problem > getting her car to move faster than twenty MPH on the first cold > day. She was a bit freaked out until she called and I told her > to get some Dino diesel, fixed her right up! > I use a bit of Lucas fuel system treatment on each third tank > or so. I have had no problems with leakage, or stuff from > the tank plugging filters or any such. > > Paul Thanks for the advice Paul... You're probably correct. I just want to try the stuff and see how it works. People who are using it say it's great so I wanna jump in too! ;) Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 09:43:12 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] 87 300D (124 chassis) stereo and speaker replacement It's been a while since I did the setup in my '82 300CD, but it was pretty straightforward. I used an Alpine CDA-9805 head unit and Infinity Kapa speakers. The fronts are 3.5's that fit under the factory grills. The rears are 5.25's and I used the Infinity grills. The fader switch is easily bypassed; once you pull the wood console trim you can trace the wires to the rear speakers in about 5 minutes with a multimeter. I reused these wires and ran new runs to the fronts. Took about half a day taking my time. Good luck. J.B. At 02:59 PM 12/31/2004, you wrote: >OK, >Before I get started on replacing the stock speakers and stereo, I want to >ask the list what the best way to do this is. I have already witnessed the >console and wood paneling removal, exposing the stereo head and console >electronics, so I think that is under control, as it is basically a screw or >two in the ashtray and the wood pops out. The guy I saw just pulled on the >center console from the front and the wood staples pulled out cleanly. It >even snapped back into place easily too. >What I am most concerned with is the in-dash speakers, grilles and also the >rear deck speakers. Has someone got a good method to do this without >damaging them? >Also I want to route around the console "fader" as it is not 4 channel, and >it is a very dirty noisy pot. I assume this will look something like tying >into the stock speaker wire at the output of this dual pot. I am an >electronics engineer, so soldering, wiring and other complex tasks are >irrelevant. I just want to do it right. Any experience or help that people >have will be appreciated greatly. >-Wolfie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:36:28 -0300 From: "Renaud (Ron) Olgiati" Subject: Re: [db] Biodiesel On Monday 03 January 2005 20:58, Jim Hoffman wrote: > #1 - "Fuels that boil in a range of 1500 to 3300C work best in diesel > engines One zero too many ? Or should we run our Diesels on molten lead or zinc ;-3p Cheers, Ron. - -- Irrationality is the square root of all evil. -- Douglas Hofstadter -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:55:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) aluminum transfers noise quite easily... when I first heard it start I was thinking vacuum pump... from a different make... but what Mike is saying makes logical sense... and does sound very familar... :) john On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->Interesting that you should say this... I replaced the belt just <1k >-->ago... (and the shock on the front of the engine is chattering since) >-->but, it sounds more like it's coming from directly under the front of >-->the cam cover... >-->Steve >--> >--> >-->On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:24:05 -0500, Mike Frank wrote: >-->> By any chance does this car have a serpentine belt? Mine sounded like that >-->> when the tensioner bushing began to loosen up. >-->> >-->> Mike Frank >-->> >-->> At 03:51 PM 1/3/2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->> >I've put up a vid on : >-->> >http://mx5ireland.com/members/srigley/ >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 08:10:37 -0800 From: "SEAN FORD" Subject: [db] 84 300SD starting problems In the last few weeks my SD has had trouble starting. I am in Las Vegas and when the weather gets cold, high 30's in the morning the car will not start. Sometimes I can get it started when the car is connected to a 60amp booster charge but it will take at least 4 or 5 tries with it cranking for 20-30 seconds each before it will start. The battery has been tested and tests good, I have a 6 month old DieHard International, I have checked the glow plugs and I believe that one of them is bad, could one bad plug cause this problem? I have also checked the battery cables and they check out OK. Once I get it started it runs fine and will start later in the day with no problems even after sitting for 6 hours or so. My guess is that the problem is temperature related but I am not sure where the problem is. When I go to start the car the voltage drops to about 12.2 with the glow plugs on and it will drop to about 8 when cranking. Is this normal? I am beginning to wonder if it is a starter problem. When starting the car all is fine for the first 3 or 4 cranking cycles but after that the starter will crank very slowly. If I wait for 10 minutes or so it will still crank slow but If I wait for over an hour it will crank ok for one cycle. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Sean Ford 84 300SD 74 Pinzgauer 710M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:57:18 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D Glow light I wouldn't abuse that ignition switch.... :) trust us on this one... :) john On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->Yup, I have the 2lt 4 banger diesel (0->60 is measured in days...). >-->This morning the pre-heat light did come on eventually (after a bit of >-->ignition position 2 on->off switching), no smoke tho when it >-->started... >-->Had a quick look last night (although it was a bit dark) and it seems >-->it might be possible to remove the glow plugs without removing the >-->intake manifold... will have another look tonight. >-->Thanks >-->Steve >--> >-->On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:50:48 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->> On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 01:13:33PM +0000, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->> > Hi Folks, >-->> > Just wondering if there is an easy fix for a problem I have with my >-->> > '88 190D. The glowplug light is now refusing to light intermittantly, >-->> > the car will start but is VERY rough the first few seconds (as you can >-->> > imagine..). >-->> > Any ideas on where to start looking to fix this? I've no experience >-->> > with the glowplugs so a basic explaination would help ;-) >-->> >-->> Probably got a dead glow plug. If you had two (since for some reason I think >-->> you have a four banger) it won't start unless you're cranking for truly >-->> obnoxiously long periods of time. When it does start, someone will probably >-->> call the fire department because of all of the smoke. >-->> >-->> Probably the easiest way to test them is to use a good meter on the plug >-->> that connects the plugs to the relay. Memory serving me, it should be something >-->> on the order of .6 ohms, and anything above double that is a goner. Derick >-->> will have to tell you how much of a pain it is to swap the plugs on a >-->> four banger - I haven't done it myself. I know on a 603 you will invent new >-->> forms of cursing, and probably have to sacrifice some blood in the process. >-->> On a 603, buying a new intake manifold gasket, replacing all six at once, >-->> and using that time as an excuse to remove and clean the crud out if the >-->> intake runners saves you time and knuckles. >-->> >-->> If yours is that much of a pain to replace, you might consider the longer >-->> lasting bosch plugs that are available on your side of the pond, but not >-->> stateside. Beru plugs are also good plugs. >-->> >-->> K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:30:43 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] MPG up to 25.25 Filled up for the second time this AM. 457.5 miles and 18.117 gallons -at- $1.84. Haven't even adjusted the valves, yet. Sure the power windows, radio, and heater still don't work but the mileage is coming around. ;) Makes me wonder if I will get to 30 - I've never gotten better than 28 on a turbo or non-turbo MB diesel. Could be that I drive faster than the car was designed for(70-75mph). Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:36:05 +0000 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) BTW, how often (in mileage) should the oil be changed in these cars? (non-turbo) I get HLA clatter on start up in my Roadster when it needs to be changed... Also, one other thing... what kind of oil pressure should I have when it's at cold idle, warm idle and cruising? Thanks Steve On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:55:12 -0800 (PST), john wrote: > > aluminum transfers noise quite easily... when I first > heard it start I was thinking vacuum pump... from a different > make... but what Mike is saying makes logical sense... > and does sound very familar... :) > john > > On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > >-->Interesting that you should say this... I replaced the belt just <1k > >-->ago... (and the shock on the front of the engine is chattering since) > >-->but, it sounds more like it's coming from directly under the front of > >-->the cam cover... > >-->Steve > >--> > >--> > >-->On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:24:05 -0500, Mike Frank wrote: > >-->> By any chance does this car have a serpentine belt? Mine sounded like that > >-->> when the tensioner bushing began to loosen up. > >-->> > >-->> Mike Frank > >-->> > >-->> At 03:51 PM 1/3/2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: > >-->> >I've put up a vid on : > >-->> >http://mx5ireland.com/members/srigley/ > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:37:31 +0000 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] 190D Glow light Wouldn't have anything to do with not being able to disengage the steering lock would it? ;0-) Had this happen a couple of times, took a good bit of fiddling to free it so now we refrain completely from the using the steering lock (a big chain and padlock works better ;-) ) Steve On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:57:18 -0800 (PST), john wrote: > > I wouldn't abuse that ignition switch.... :) > > trust us on this one... :) > > john > > On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > >-->Yup, I have the 2lt 4 banger diesel (0->60 is measured in days...). > >-->This morning the pre-heat light did come on eventually (after a bit of > >-->ignition position 2 on->off switching), no smoke tho when it > >-->started... > >-->Had a quick look last night (although it was a bit dark) and it seems > >-->it might be possible to remove the glow plugs without removing the > >-->intake manifold... will have another look tonight. > >-->Thanks > >-->Steve > >--> > >-->On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:50:48 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > >-->> On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 01:13:33PM +0000, Stephen Rigley wrote: > >-->> > Hi Folks, > >-->> > Just wondering if there is an easy fix for a problem I have with my > >-->> > '88 190D. The glowplug light is now refusing to light intermittantly, > >-->> > the car will start but is VERY rough the first few seconds (as you can > >-->> > imagine..). > >-->> > Any ideas on where to start looking to fix this? I've no experience > >-->> > with the glowplugs so a basic explaination would help ;-) > >-->> > >-->> Probably got a dead glow plug. If you had two (since for some reason I think > >-->> you have a four banger) it won't start unless you're cranking for truly > >-->> obnoxiously long periods of time. When it does start, someone will probably > >-->> call the fire department because of all of the smoke. > >-->> > >-->> Probably the easiest way to test them is to use a good meter on the plug > >-->> that connects the plugs to the relay. Memory serving me, it should be something > >-->> on the order of .6 ohms, and anything above double that is a goner. Derick > >-->> will have to tell you how much of a pain it is to swap the plugs on a > >-->> four banger - I haven't done it myself. I know on a 603 you will invent new > >-->> forms of cursing, and probably have to sacrifice some blood in the process. > >-->> On a 603, buying a new intake manifold gasket, replacing all six at once, > >-->> and using that time as an excuse to remove and clean the crud out if the > >-->> intake runners saves you time and knuckles. > >-->> > >-->> If yours is that much of a pain to replace, you might consider the longer > >-->> lasting bosch plugs that are available on your side of the pond, but not > >-->> stateside. Beru plugs are also good plugs. > >-->> > >-->> K > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 08:56:53 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) On Tue, Jan 04, 2005 at 04:36:05PM +0000, Stephen Rigley wrote: > BTW, how often (in mileage) should the oil be changed in these cars? (non-turbo) > I get HLA clatter on start up in my Roadster when it needs to be changed... > Also, one other thing... what kind of oil pressure should I have when > it's at cold idle, warm idle and cruising? I think Mercedes said the oil needs changing every 3000ish miles (about 5000 km) if used largely around town, and 5000 miles if used largely on the road. This, of course, assumes you aren't running a synthetic. If you are using a synthetic, you can play the oil analysis game and push the numbers out quite a bit. The oil gauge should peg at 3 bar when you are on the throttle. Cold idle will likely be pegged, and as it warms up, the idle oil pressure will lower. It should not get lower than 1-1.3 bar according to Mercedes, but I get nervous if it's below 1.5 bar. My 300D with 290k on its engine hovers happily at 2 bar when warmed up. My 190D is usually half a needle's width below 2 bar at warm idle. If you have enough kms on your car that the lifters are starting to get tired, they will clatter regardless of how old the oil is. Some have found switching to synthetic shuts them up after 10k miles or so, others just drive it. K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:13:53 -0600 From: Subject: RE: [db] 84 300SD starting problems When was the last time the valves were adjusted? They're supposed to be reset every 15,000 miles. It's a fairly straightforward process requiring only a few good wrenches and a new valve cover gasket. Alec - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of SEAN FORD Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:11 AM To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: [db] 84 300SD starting problems In the last few weeks my SD has had trouble starting. I am in Las Vegas and when the weather gets cold, high 30's in the morning the car will not start. Sometimes I can get it started when the car is connected to a 60amp booster charge but it will take at least 4 or 5 tries with it cranking for 20-30 seconds each before it will start. The battery has been tested and tests good, I have a 6 month old DieHard International, I have checked the glow plugs and I believe that one of them is bad, could one bad plug cause this problem? I have also checked the battery cables and they check out OK. Once I get it started it runs fine and will start later in the day with no problems even after sitting for 6 hours or so. My guess is that the problem is temperature related but I am not sure where the problem is. When I go to start the car the voltage drops to about 12.2 with the glow plugs on and it will drop to about 8 when cranking. Is this normal? I am beginning to wonder if it is a starter problem. When starting the car all is fine for the first 3 or 4 cranking cycles but after that the starter will crank very slowly. If I wait for 10 minutes or so it will still crank slow but If I wait for over an hour it will crank ok for one cycle. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Sean Ford 84 300SD 74 Pinzgauer 710M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:14:53 +0000 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) "others just drive it" heheh I like that ;-) But unfortunately I'm a car hypochondriac ... the slightest unusual noise and I'll be driving round with the stereo off for a week to see if it reoccurs ;-) On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 08:56:53 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Tue, Jan 04, 2005 at 04:36:05PM +0000, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > BTW, how often (in mileage) should the oil be changed in these cars? (non-turbo) > > I get HLA clatter on start up in my Roadster when it needs to be changed... > > Also, one other thing... what kind of oil pressure should I have when > > it's at cold idle, warm idle and cruising? > > I think Mercedes said the oil needs changing every 3000ish miles (about 5000 km) > if used largely around town, and 5000 miles if used largely on the road. > This, of course, assumes you aren't running a synthetic. If you are using a > synthetic, you can play the oil analysis game and push the numbers out quite > a bit. > > The oil gauge should peg at 3 bar when you are on the throttle. Cold idle will > likely be pegged, and as it warms up, the idle oil pressure will lower. It > should not get lower than 1-1.3 bar according to Mercedes, but I get nervous > if it's below 1.5 bar. My 300D with 290k on its engine hovers happily at > 2 bar when warmed up. My 190D is usually half a needle's width below 2 bar > at warm idle. > > If you have enough kms on your car that the lifters are starting to get tired, > they will clatter regardless of how old the oil is. Some have found switching > to synthetic shuts them up after 10k miles or so, others just drive it. > > K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1694 **********************************