From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jan 4 10:07:22 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, January 4 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1695 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 84 300SD starting problems Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Re: [db] 190D Glow light RE: [db] 87 300D (124 chassis) stereo and speaker replacement Re: [db] 190D Glow light [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Re: [db] 190D Glow light Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:33:54 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 84 300SD starting problems On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, SEAN FORD wrote: >-->In the last few weeks my SD has had trouble starting. I am in Las Vegas and >-->when the weather gets cold, high 30's in the morning the car will not start. >--> Sometimes I can get it started when the car is connected to a 60amp >-->booster charge but it will take at least 4 or 5 tries with it cranking for >-->20-30 seconds each before it will start. The battery has been tested and >-->tests good, I have a 6 month old DieHard International, I have checked the >-->glow plugs and I believe that one of them is bad, could one bad plug cause >-->this problem? ABSOLUTELY! you're loosing 20% of your power/heating right off the bat! that's a big hit. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:36:37 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) dino oil 3000 to 5000 miles depending on your driving habits/conditions and brand amsoil about 7000 to 9000 depending .... with oil analysis 15K+ I think the factory manual says 75000 miles... not sure... haven't looked up your model. or mine for that matter. ;) john On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->BTW, how often (in mileage) should the oil be changed in these cars? (non-turbo) >-->I get HLA clatter on start up in my Roadster when it needs to be changed... >-->Also, one other thing... what kind of oil pressure should I have when >-->it's at cold idle, warm idle and cruising? >--> >-->Thanks >-->Steve >--> >--> >--> >-->On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:55:12 -0800 (PST), john wrote: >-->> >-->> aluminum transfers noise quite easily... when I first >-->> heard it start I was thinking vacuum pump... from a different >-->> make... but what Mike is saying makes logical sense... >-->> and does sound very familar... :) >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Interesting that you should say this... I replaced the belt just <1k >-->> >-->ago... (and the shock on the front of the engine is chattering since) >-->> >-->but, it sounds more like it's coming from directly under the front of >-->> >-->the cam cover... >-->> >-->Steve >-->> >--> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:24:05 -0500, Mike Frank wrote: >-->> >-->> By any chance does this car have a serpentine belt? Mine sounded like that >-->> >-->> when the tensioner bushing began to loosen up. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Mike Frank >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> At 03:51 PM 1/3/2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->> >-->> >I've put up a vid on : >-->> >-->> >http://mx5ireland.com/members/srigley/ >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:37:16 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D Glow light On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->Wouldn't have anything to do with not being able to disengage the >-->steering lock would it? ;0-) Had this happen a couple of times, took a >-->good bit of fiddling to free it so now we refrain completely from the >-->using the steering lock (a big chain and padlock works better ;-) ) >-->Steve I think you want to change out the ignition switch now... as in NOW... :) john >--> >-->On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:57:18 -0800 (PST), john wrote: >-->> >-->> I wouldn't abuse that ignition switch.... :) >-->> >-->> trust us on this one... :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Yup, I have the 2lt 4 banger diesel (0->60 is measured in days...). >-->> >-->This morning the pre-heat light did come on eventually (after a bit of >-->> >-->ignition position 2 on->off switching), no smoke tho when it >-->> >-->started... >-->> >-->Had a quick look last night (although it was a bit dark) and it seems >-->> >-->it might be possible to remove the glow plugs without removing the >-->> >-->intake manifold... will have another look tonight. >-->> >-->Thanks >-->> >-->Steve >-->> >--> >-->> >-->On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:50:48 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->> >-->> On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 01:13:33PM +0000, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->> >-->> > Hi Folks, >-->> >-->> > Just wondering if there is an easy fix for a problem I have with my >-->> >-->> > '88 190D. The glowplug light is now refusing to light intermittantly, >-->> >-->> > the car will start but is VERY rough the first few seconds (as you can >-->> >-->> > imagine..). >-->> >-->> > Any ideas on where to start looking to fix this? I've no experience >-->> >-->> > with the glowplugs so a basic explaination would help ;-) >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Probably got a dead glow plug. If you had two (since for some reason I think >-->> >-->> you have a four banger) it won't start unless you're cranking for truly >-->> >-->> obnoxiously long periods of time. When it does start, someone will probably >-->> >-->> call the fire department because of all of the smoke. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Probably the easiest way to test them is to use a good meter on the plug >-->> >-->> that connects the plugs to the relay. Memory serving me, it should be something >-->> >-->> on the order of .6 ohms, and anything above double that is a goner. Derick >-->> >-->> will have to tell you how much of a pain it is to swap the plugs on a >-->> >-->> four banger - I haven't done it myself. I know on a 603 you will invent new >-->> >-->> forms of cursing, and probably have to sacrifice some blood in the process. >-->> >-->> On a 603, buying a new intake manifold gasket, replacing all six at once, >-->> >-->> and using that time as an excuse to remove and clean the crud out if the >-->> >-->> intake runners saves you time and knuckles. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> If yours is that much of a pain to replace, you might consider the longer >-->> >-->> lasting bosch plugs that are available on your side of the pond, but not >-->> >-->> stateside. Beru plugs are also good plugs. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> K >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:07:38 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: RE: [db] 87 300D (124 chassis) stereo and speaker replacement Remove the single Phillips screw that holds them in place, then lift up where the screw was. The grill should come right out with some wiggling. J.B. At 12:10 PM 1/4/2005, you wrote: >How did you get the grilles up without damaging them or the dash? Are there >some hidden tabs? Mine didn't want to pop out easily, and I figured I'd ask >if anyone knew before proceeding blindly. >-Wolfie > >-----Original Message----- >From: J.B. Hebert [mailto:diesel-at-wrxtra.com] >Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 6:43 AM >To: BigBdWolf >Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: [db] 87 300D (124 chassis) stereo and speaker replacement > >It's been a while since I did the setup in my '82 300CD, but it was pretty >straightforward. I used an Alpine CDA-9805 head unit and Infinity Kapa >speakers. The fronts are 3.5's that fit under the factory grills. The >rears are 5.25's and I used the Infinity grills. The fader switch is >easily bypassed; once you pull the wood console trim you can trace the >wires to the rear speakers in about 5 minutes with a multimeter. I reused >these wires and ran new runs to the fronts. Took about half a day taking >my time. > >Good luck. > >J.B. > >At 02:59 PM 12/31/2004, you wrote: > >OK, > >Before I get started on replacing the stock speakers and stereo, I want to > >ask the list what the best way to do this is. I have already witnessed the > >console and wood paneling removal, exposing the stereo head and console > >electronics, so I think that is under control, as it is basically a screw >or > >two in the ashtray and the wood pops out. The guy I saw just pulled on the > >center console from the front and the wood staples pulled out cleanly. It > >even snapped back into place easily too. > >What I am most concerned with is the in-dash speakers, grilles and also the > >rear deck speakers. Has someone got a good method to do this without > >damaging them? > >Also I want to route around the console "fader" as it is not 4 channel, and > >it is a very dirty noisy pot. I assume this will look something like tying > >into the stock speaker wire at the output of this dual pot. I am an > >electronics engineer, so soldering, wiring and other complex tasks are > >irrelevant. I just want to do it right. Any experience or help that people > >have will be appreciated greatly. > >-Wolfie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:14:26 +0000 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] 190D Glow light sounds like a good time to invest in a sawzall ;-) On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:37:16 -0800 (PST), john wrote: > On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > >-->Wouldn't have anything to do with not being able to disengage the > >-->steering lock would it? ;0-) Had this happen a couple of times, took a > >-->good bit of fiddling to free it so now we refrain completely from the > >-->using the steering lock (a big chain and padlock works better ;-) ) > >-->Steve > > > I think you want to change out the ignition switch now... as in NOW... :) > > john > > >--> > >-->On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:57:18 -0800 (PST), john wrote: > >-->> > >-->> I wouldn't abuse that ignition switch.... :) > >-->> > >-->> trust us on this one... :) > >-->> > >-->> john > >-->> > >-->> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >-->Yup, I have the 2lt 4 banger diesel (0->60 is measured in days...). > >-->> >-->This morning the pre-heat light did come on eventually (after a bit of > >-->> >-->ignition position 2 on->off switching), no smoke tho when it > >-->> >-->started... > >-->> >-->Had a quick look last night (although it was a bit dark) and it seems > >-->> >-->it might be possible to remove the glow plugs without removing the > >-->> >-->intake manifold... will have another look tonight. > >-->> >-->Thanks > >-->> >-->Steve > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:50:48 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > >-->> >-->> On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 01:13:33PM +0000, Stephen Rigley wrote: > >-->> >-->> > Hi Folks, > >-->> >-->> > Just wondering if there is an easy fix for a problem I have with my > >-->> >-->> > '88 190D. The glowplug light is now refusing to light intermittantly, > >-->> >-->> > the car will start but is VERY rough the first few seconds (as you can > >-->> >-->> > imagine..). > >-->> >-->> > Any ideas on where to start looking to fix this? I've no experience > >-->> >-->> > with the glowplugs so a basic explaination would help ;-) > >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> Probably got a dead glow plug. If you had two (since for some reason I think > >-->> >-->> you have a four banger) it won't start unless you're cranking for truly > >-->> >-->> obnoxiously long periods of time. When it does start, someone will probably > >-->> >-->> call the fire department because of all of the smoke. > >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> Probably the easiest way to test them is to use a good meter on the plug > >-->> >-->> that connects the plugs to the relay. Memory serving me, it should be something > >-->> >-->> on the order of .6 ohms, and anything above double that is a goner. Derick > >-->> >-->> will have to tell you how much of a pain it is to swap the plugs on a > >-->> >-->> four banger - I haven't done it myself. I know on a 603 you will invent new > >-->> >-->> forms of cursing, and probably have to sacrifice some blood in the process. > >-->> >-->> On a 603, buying a new intake manifold gasket, replacing all six at once, > >-->> >-->> and using that time as an excuse to remove and clean the crud out if the > >-->> >-->> intake runners saves you time and knuckles. > >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> If yours is that much of a pain to replace, you might consider the longer > >-->> >-->> lasting bosch plugs that are available on your side of the pond, but not > >-->> >-->> stateside. Beru plugs are also good plugs. > >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> K > >-->> >--> > >-->> > >-->> ---- > >-->> > >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-->> > >-->> > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:15:24 -0800 From: "derick amburgey" Subject: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) I have observed same on my 1985 190D. Derick The oil gauge should peg at 3 bar when you are on the throttle. Cold idle will likely be pegged, and as it warms up, the idle oil pressure will lower. It should not get lower than 1-1.3 bar according to Mercedes, but I get nervous if it's below 1.5 bar. My 300D with 290k on its engine hovers happily at 2 bar when warmed up. My 190D is usually half a needle's width below 2 bar at warm idle. K - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:05:09 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D Glow light On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->sounds like a good time to invest in a sawzall ;-) let's hope it doesn't come to that... :) john >--> >--> >-->On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:37:16 -0800 (PST), john wrote: >-->> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Wouldn't have anything to do with not being able to disengage the >-->> >-->steering lock would it? ;0-) Had this happen a couple of times, took a >-->> >-->good bit of fiddling to free it so now we refrain completely from the >-->> >-->using the steering lock (a big chain and padlock works better ;-) ) >-->> >-->Steve >-->> >-->> >-->> I think you want to change out the ignition switch now... as in NOW... :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 07:57:18 -0800 (PST), john wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> I wouldn't abuse that ignition switch.... :) >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> trust us on this one... :) >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->Yup, I have the 2lt 4 banger diesel (0->60 is measured in days...). >-->> >-->> >-->This morning the pre-heat light did come on eventually (after a bit of >-->> >-->> >-->ignition position 2 on->off switching), no smoke tho when it >-->> >-->> >-->started... >-->> >-->> >-->Had a quick look last night (although it was a bit dark) and it seems >-->> >-->> >-->it might be possible to remove the glow plugs without removing the >-->> >-->> >-->intake manifold... will have another look tonight. >-->> >-->> >-->Thanks >-->> >-->> >-->Steve >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:50:48 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 01:13:33PM +0000, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> > Hi Folks, >-->> >-->> >-->> > Just wondering if there is an easy fix for a problem I have with my >-->> >-->> >-->> > '88 190D. The glowplug light is now refusing to light intermittantly, >-->> >-->> >-->> > the car will start but is VERY rough the first few seconds (as you can >-->> >-->> >-->> > imagine..). >-->> >-->> >-->> > Any ideas on where to start looking to fix this? I've no experience >-->> >-->> >-->> > with the glowplugs so a basic explaination would help ;-) >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Probably got a dead glow plug. If you had two (since for some reason I think >-->> >-->> >-->> you have a four banger) it won't start unless you're cranking for truly >-->> >-->> >-->> obnoxiously long periods of time. When it does start, someone will probably >-->> >-->> >-->> call the fire department because of all of the smoke. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Probably the easiest way to test them is to use a good meter on the plug >-->> >-->> >-->> that connects the plugs to the relay. Memory serving me, it should be something >-->> >-->> >-->> on the order of .6 ohms, and anything above double that is a goner. Derick >-->> >-->> >-->> will have to tell you how much of a pain it is to swap the plugs on a >-->> >-->> >-->> four banger - I haven't done it myself. I know on a 603 you will invent new >-->> >-->> >-->> forms of cursing, and probably have to sacrifice some blood in the process. >-->> >-->> >-->> On a 603, buying a new intake manifold gasket, replacing all six at once, >-->> >-->> >-->> and using that time as an excuse to remove and clean the crud out if the >-->> >-->> >-->> intake runners saves you time and knuckles. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> If yours is that much of a pain to replace, you might consider the longer >-->> >-->> >-->> lasting bosch plugs that are available on your side of the pond, but not >-->> >-->> >-->> stateside. Beru plugs are also good plugs. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> K >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1695 **********************************