From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jan 4 16:49:55 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, January 5 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1696 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Oil change frequency Re: [db] Windshield haze/Armorall Re: [db] 190D Glow light Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Re: [db] 190D Glow light Re: [db] Windshield haze/Armorall [db] 617 Crankshaft Re: [db] 190D Glow light Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Re: [db] 84 300SD starting problems Re: [db] 617 Crankshaft Re: [db] 190D Glow light Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:21:54 -0800 From: "derick amburgey" Subject: [db] Oil change frequency 98% of my driving is freeway driving. Rarley hit any traffic jams due to work hours. The 190d oil gets a change every 6000 miles. (about 5 weeks of driving) Oil: Delo 400. It uses about .5 to .75 quart between changes. Derick - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:07:04 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Windshield haze/Armorall good question... don't have time to research it, but I know that I heard about this first from the technical experts at amsoil... they mentioned armourall specifically as being a problem, and used that as a sales point for their product... so the chemical makeup may be the issue... requires more research... no time, you're on your own. ;) john On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Robert Chase wrote: >-->Hmmm, >--> >--> >-->I don't mean to pick but "Armorall" is a pretty broad term that we use >-->to describe vinal protectants..... I notice a lot of people saying >-->"Armorall is bad" but so far no one has clarified if its all vinal >-->protectans in general or just specifically the Armorall brand...... Is >-->there specific information somewhere that someone might point me to on >-->chemically why Armorall is bad for auto dashes and why that so many >-->people in the automotive world use these products? Or are we talking >-->about non scientific personal experiences here? The reason I question >-->this is because I have never heard this and have been happily using >-->"vinal protectants" for years on several cars I have owned and have yet >-->to have a crack on the dashboard of any car I have owned and would like >-->to avoid doing such in the future. If there is some real information I >-->would be very interested to see it. >--> >--> >-->Robert Chase >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->Tenawa Rio wrote: >--> >-->>On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:56:43 -0800, Randy Eisenhardt >-->> wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->>>If Armorall is not what one should use, what is the preferred method? >-->>>What is the proper product to keep my dash clean? Simple soap/water? >-->>> >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->>I've been told that Armorall is not good for vinyl in the long term. >-->> >-->>I use mild soap and water to clean all interior vinyl surfaces >-->>including the MB Tex seats and then spray on "303 Aerospace >-->>Protectant". It's like a sunscreen against UV light. It's milky in >-->>appearance and leaves a soft sheen (not greasy) on the applied vinyl >-->>surface. >-->> >-->>http://www.303products.com/main.php?infopage=protectant >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:28:22 -0800 From: "derick amburgey" Subject: Re: [db] 190D Glow light I agree with John. Do not wait, in fact I would park the car, chock the wheels, and leave the ignition switch in the number one position and disconnect your battery until you get the new lock cylinder. John and I have both done this when it was too late and have had grief. Okay here is your choice. 1. Easy way - 5 to 10 min repair. 2. Hard way - 4 to 8 hour repair. In the digest somewhere is a proceedure I wrote up if I get time today I will see if I can find it. I think you want to change out the ignition switch now... as in NOW... :) john - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:29:11 -0800 From: "derick amburgey" Subject: Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Yikes, I would pull the valve cover ASAP and ensure that the timing chain tensioner and guides are okay. If that chain comes loose you are going to lose the timing chain cover at a minimum. IF the tentioner gets weak that chain WILL jump around and take out a small aluminum standoff near the crankshaft sprocket and results in a hole underneath the crankshaft in the timing chain cover. Also if it is the belt tensioner developing slop you will have a similar failure in the future. Pull the belt and check the bracket and the pulley for slop at the bushings. I have replaced two of these due to slop. Double check to ensure the bracket bushing is screwed all the way in, if loose take it out, clean it, put some "blue" locktite on it and reinstall. A coworker with the same car ignored it and lost the timing chain cover and made his engine compartment very messy. What happens is the slop creates metal fatigue where the tension bracket bolts to the cover and it snaps off. It may also be a noisy lifter that needs replacement, this is not serious but should be addressed. The above is by no means NOT everything that could be happening... you could be breaking new ground. ;) Good luck and let us know how you make out! Derick Interesting that you should say this... I replaced the belt just <1k ago... (and the shock on the front of the engine is chattering since) but, it sounds more like it's coming from directly under the front of the cam cover... Steve - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:25:34 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D Glow light On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, derick amburgey wrote: >-->John and I have both done this when it was too late and have had grief. >--> >-->Okay here is your choice. >--> >-->1. Easy way - 5 to 10 min repair. >-->2. Hard way - 4 to 8 hour repair. >--> >-->In the digest somewhere is a proceedure I wrote up if I get time today I >-->will see if I can find it. I have my search tool working again: http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/search-DBL.html john >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->I think you want to change out the ignition switch now... as in NOW... :) >-->john >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 13:50:59 -0600 From: Tenawa Rio Subject: Re: [db] Windshield haze/Armorall Sorry Robert, I only have anecdotal evidence, but that was sufficient for me not to want to use Armorall. If you have been using the same product for years with no ill effects on the condition of your vinyl then I suppose it's hard to argue for change. I would say this though, 303's website does mention that products that use petroleum distillates have a long term detrimental effect as they dry out the softening plasticizers contained within the vinyl. The vinyl then becomes brittle and cracks. For their mini vinyl FAQ see; http://www.303products.com/main.php?infopage=leftmenvynal And no, I am not a 303 salesman :) On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 08:05:24 -0500, Robert Chase wrote: > Hmmm, > > I don't mean to pick but "Armorall" is a pretty broad term that we use > to describe vinal protectants..... I notice a lot of people saying > "Armorall is bad" but so far no one has clarified if its all vinal > protectans in general or just specifically the Armorall brand...... Is > there specific information somewhere that someone might point me to on > chemically why Armorall is bad for auto dashes and why that so many > people in the automotive world use these products? Or are we talking > about non scientific personal experiences here? The reason I question > this is because I have never heard this and have been happily using > "vinal protectants" for years on several cars I have owned and have yet > to have a crack on the dashboard of any car I have owned and would like > to avoid doing such in the future. If there is some real information I > would be very interested to see it. > > Robert Chase > > Tenawa Rio wrote: > > >On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:56:43 -0800, Randy Eisenhardt > > wrote: > > > > > >>If Armorall is not what one should use, what is the preferred method? > >>What is the proper product to keep my dash clean? Simple soap/water? > >> > >> > >> > > > >I've been told that Armorall is not good for vinyl in the long term. > > > >I use mild soap and water to clean all interior vinyl surfaces > >including the MB Tex seats and then spray on "303 Aerospace > >Protectant". It's like a sunscreen against UV light. It's milky in > >appearance and leaves a soft sheen (not greasy) on the applied vinyl > >surface. > > > >http://www.303products.com/main.php?infopage=protectant > > > > > > > > - -- Tenawa 1992 300d ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 13:54:11 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" Subject: [db] 617 Crankshaft Dear People, Anybody out there have a spare crankshaft for a 617x10 engine? Or a spare 617 engine, which would fit a 115 body (preferably near Austin, Texas to avoid shipping hassle)? Crankshafts for later versions of 617 engine won't do and engines for 123 bodies don't fit in 115s (as I read on the lists--don't know if it would be practical to modify one to fit). I learned that the torque spec for front crank bolt, though alarmingly high, is appropriate. Using a pipe over my longest breaker bar, in back yard, after tiring day of mechanicing, is not necessarily sufficient. Even slight polishing of the snout and wallowing of pin holes bespeaks limited life expectancy for a crankshaft. Local machine shops assure me that repairing my old crank would not be a worthwhile adventure. Grinding a used crank for new bearings would, however, work well. Money is an object at this point in my employment history and am almost resigned to replacing a handsome old friend of many years with some temporary, inexpensive road appliance. Any suggestions welcome. Sam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:50:22 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] 190D Glow light 5 to 10 mins sounds good ;-) I'll do a search in a few mins, thanks! I've just been out to have a root round and am fairly sure I've identified 2 glow plugs ... can't see any others though... I'd have thought there should be one per cylinder? Steve On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:28:22 -0800, derick amburgey wrote: > I agree with John. > Do not wait, in fact I would park the car, chock the wheels, and leave the > ignition switch in the number one position and disconnect your battery until > you get the new lock cylinder. > John and I have both done this when it was too late and have had grief. > > Okay here is your choice. > > 1. Easy way - 5 to 10 min repair. > 2. Hard way - 4 to 8 hour repair. > > In the digest somewhere is a proceedure I wrote up if I get time today I > will see if I can find it. > > > > I think you want to change out the ignition switch now... as in NOW... :) > > john > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:00:10 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Nice one! That's what I see. I stood over the engine as my significant other started the car tonight... the REALLY loud clatter I hear is coming from the main fuel filter/pump area... wonder if there's an air leak or something causing it... Steve On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:15:24 -0800, derick amburgey wrote: > I have observed same on my 1985 190D. > > Derick > > > The oil gauge should peg at 3 bar when you are on the throttle. Cold idle > will > likely be pegged, and as it warms up, the idle oil pressure will lower. It > should not get lower than 1-1.3 bar according to Mercedes, but I get nervous > if it's below 1.5 bar. My 300D with 290k on its engine hovers happily at > 2 bar when warmed up. My 190D is usually half a needle's width below 2 bar > at warm idle. > > K > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:02:01 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] "What's that noise?" Quiz (190D) Arrgh... now you have me scared... having one car out of action is bad enough, but 2!!!! The weather here isn't helping either... cold, very windy, wet and dark by 4:30pm ... makes me wish I'd stayed in Spain.. :-( Steve On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:29:11 -0800, derick amburgey wrote: > Yikes, > > I would pull the valve cover ASAP and ensure that the timing chain tensioner > and guides are okay. > If that chain comes loose you are going to lose the timing chain cover at a > minimum. > IF the tentioner gets weak that chain WILL jump around and take out a small > aluminum standoff near the crankshaft sprocket and results in a hole > underneath the crankshaft in the timing chain cover. > > Also if it is the belt tensioner developing slop you will have a similar > failure in the future. > Pull the belt and check the bracket and the pulley for slop at the bushings. > I have replaced two of these due to slop. > Double check to ensure the bracket bushing is screwed all the way in, if > loose take it out, clean it, put some "blue" locktite on it and reinstall. > A coworker with the same car ignored it and lost the timing chain cover and > made his engine compartment very messy. > What happens is the slop creates metal fatigue where the tension bracket > bolts to the cover and it snaps off. > > It may also be a noisy lifter that needs replacement, this is not serious > but should be addressed. > > The above is by no means NOT everything that could be happening... you could > be breaking new ground. ;) > > Good luck and let us know how you make out! > > Derick > > > Interesting that you should say this... I replaced the belt just <1k > ago... (and the shock on the front of the engine is chattering since) > but, it sounds more like it's coming from directly under the front of > the cam cover... > Steve > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:51:16 -0800 (PST) From: hue wong Subject: Re: [db] 84 300SD starting problems Ho Sean! Yup, I'd replace those glow plugs. I had this exact problem last year during the winter on my 300d. Then my glowplug light on the dash went out, which lead me to think "gee I bet my glow plugs are bad" I had one bad plug, but changed them all out (only took a few hours and cost somethng like 12 bucks a plug) after that, boy, even if I just look funny at the car now, if fires right up. On the days I swap between my gasser and the desiel and forget to prewarm and just start cranking , it still fires up like a gasser... so, swap those plugs! Happy new year! - --- SEAN FORD wrote: > In the last few weeks my SD has had trouble > starting. I am in Las Vegas and > when the weather gets cold, high 30's in the morning > the car will not start. > Sometimes I can get it started when the car is > connected to a 60amp > booster charge but it will take at least 4 or 5 > tries with it cranking for > 20-30 seconds each before it will start. The > battery has been tested and > tests good, I have a 6 month old DieHard > International, I have checked the > glow plugs and I believe that one of them is bad, > could one bad plug cause > this problem? I have also checked the battery > cables and they check out OK. > Once I get it started it runs fine and will start > later in the day with no > problems even after sitting for 6 hours or so. My > guess is that the problem > is temperature related but I am not sure where the > problem is. When I go > to start the car the voltage drops to about 12.2 > with the glow plugs on and > it will drop to about 8 when cranking. Is this > normal? I am beginning to > wonder if it is a starter problem. When starting > the car all is fine for > the first 3 or 4 cranking cycles but after that the > starter will crank very > slowly. If I wait for 10 minutes or so it will > still crank slow but If I > wait for over an hour it will crank ok for one > cycle. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Sean Ford > 84 300SD > 74 Pinzgauer 710M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:07:09 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] 617 Crankshaft On Tue, Jan 04, 2005 at 01:54:11PM -0600, Sam Williams wrote: > Anybody out there have a spare crankshaft for a 617x10 engine? Or a spare > 617 engine, which would fit a 115 body (preferably near Austin, Texas to > avoid shipping hassle)? Crankshafts for later versions of 617 engine won't > do and engines for 123 bodies don't fit in 115s (as I read on the > lists--don't know if it would be practical to modify one to fit). I'm pretty sure a -616- can be made to fit if you change the oil filter setup and a couple other minor things. Don't know about the longer 617. Might ask Kaleb if he has one in his bone pile. He's not too far from you - in Claremore OK. Kaleb usually lurks around here... Kaleb? > Money is an object at this point in my employment history and am almost > resigned to replacing a handsome old friend of many years with some > temporary, inexpensive road appliance. Any suggestions welcome. I'll keep my eyes peeled out here just in case, but we're somewhere around 1800 miles or so apart, so shipping might be prohibitive. Do I even want to ask what resulted in you needing a new crank? K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:54:02 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] 190D Glow light You can find a do-it yourself procedure to repair your lock cylinder on my website: http://www.coolcatcorp.com/Mercedes/Lock190.html best fix it now, before it gets worse. Mike Frank At 12:37 PM 1/4/2005, you wrote: >On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > >-->Wouldn't have anything to do with not being able to disengage the > >-->steering lock would it? ;0-) Had this happen a couple of times, took a > >-->good bit of fiddling to free it so now we refrain completely from the > >-->using the steering lock (a big chain and padlock works better ;-) ) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1696 **********************************