From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jan 5 20:01:42 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, January 6 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1699 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Fuel price watcher?? Re: [db] Engine shocks RE: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD RE: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD Re: [db] Engine shocks Re: [db] Engine shocks [db] MB ABS brakes - front wheel locking Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:22:35 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: [db] Fuel price watcher?? What's the URL of the site that tracks fuel prices?? TIA! Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:41:24 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Engine shocks Great info! Will order some right away (after I've checked how tight they are)... mine are fairly noisy! Thanks again! (Wow! What a wealth of knowledge on this list!) Steve On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 12:28:59 -0600, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > The shock has nothing to do with vibration, all it does is help stabilize > the engine upon shutdown, to keep it from shaking the whole car. > > Sam Williams wrote: > > > Robert, > > > > Another unverifiable urban legend for you to worry over: > > > > I read on other lists that the engine shocks last forever but the bushings > > don't and you can renew the shock absorbing action by replacing $2.00's > > worth of bushings; you don't need to buy the $40.00 shock, itself. > > > > You must pull the shock to replace bushings, anyway. It's not hard. Grip > > the rod with a small wrench on flat spot and unscrew nuts,... . > > > > My old shock was far looser than the replacement so my experience runs > > counter to list wisdom. Of course, one data point can't disprove a trend. > > > > My 30 year old dash finally cracked, had been Armoralled at some point--same > > on the 40 year old Ford. If the MTBF of un-armoralled vinyl dashboards > > approaches or exceeds 50 years, Armorall may be as dangerous as 'they' say. > > > > Sam > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On > > Behalf Of Robert Chase > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:15 AM > > To: [db] (E-mail) > > Subject: [db] Engine shocks > > > > Hmmm, > > > > My vibration is still around.... I suspect its probably a bad engine > > shock........ Anybody got a good URL on how to replace this? Im > > debating doing this myself...... Then again I might bring it in :) > > > > Robert Chase > > > > > > -- > Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK > 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD > 81 240D, 76 240D, 74 240D, 72 300SEL 4.5 > Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:28:15 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Sam Williams wrote: >-->Ah John. You take life too seriously. Some blame the French for inventing >-->Freedom Fries, too. Where would McDonalds, indeed the whole of American >-->haut cuisine be without the French? >-->;-) >-->Sam you know, that's a good point... same with mustard... where would we be without French's mustard? Guess we'd all have to use Grey Poupon... ;) john >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >-->Behalf Of john >-->Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:01 PM >-->To: Sam Williams >-->Cc: diesel-benz list >-->Subject: RE: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD >--> >-->oh man... you had to go and ruin it for me... >-->">-->changed from that introduced by the French in 1952. It uses a >-->hydraulic" >--> >-->I guess the fact that it is changed does have some redeeming value... ;) >--> >-->john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 20:54:54 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:28:15 -0800 (PST), john wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Sam Williams wrote: > > >-->Ah John. You take life too seriously. Some blame the French for inventing > >-->Freedom Fries, too. Where would McDonalds, indeed the whole of American > >-->haut cuisine be without the French? > >-->;-) > >-->Sam > > you know, that's a good point... same with mustard... where would > we be without French's mustard? Guess we'd all have to use Grey Poupon... ;) oh... or mayonnaise! ... or Pasteurised milk ... or ... ;-) Steve > > john > > >--> > >-->-----Original Message----- > >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On > >-->Behalf Of john > >-->Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:01 PM > >-->To: Sam Williams > >-->Cc: diesel-benz list > >-->Subject: RE: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD > >--> > >-->oh man... you had to go and ruin it for me... > >-->">-->changed from that introduced by the French in 1952. It uses a > >-->hydraulic" > >--> > >-->I guess the fact that it is changed does have some redeeming value... ;) > >--> > >-->john > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:14:21 -0600 From: Subject: RE: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD Or radial tires, or Peugeot diesels to laugh at when they make claims about being the first passenger diesels, or some such merde. ;-) Alec - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Rigley Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:55 PM To: john Cc: Sam Williams; diesel-benz list Subject: Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:28:15 -0800 (PST), john wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Sam Williams wrote: > > >-->Ah John. You take life too seriously. Some blame the French for inventing > >-->Freedom Fries, too. Where would McDonalds, indeed the whole of American > >-->haut cuisine be without the French? > >-->;-) > >-->Sam > > you know, that's a good point... same with mustard... where would > we be without French's mustard? Guess we'd all have to use Grey Poupon... ;) oh... or mayonnaise! ... or Pasteurised milk ... or ... ;-) Steve > > john > > >--> > >-->-----Original Message----- > >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On > >-->Behalf Of john > >-->Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:01 PM > >-->To: Sam Williams > >-->Cc: diesel-benz list > >-->Subject: RE: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD > >--> > >-->oh man... you had to go and ruin it for me... > >-->">-->changed from that introduced by the French in 1952. It uses a > >-->hydraulic" > >--> > >-->I guess the fact that it is changed does have some redeeming value... ;) > >--> > >-->john > ---- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:34:13 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD oh... I thought we were just talking food... ;-) But I'm too tired to start on all the others ;-) On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:14:21 -0600, Alec_Cordova-at-dell.com wrote: > Or radial tires, or Peugeot diesels to laugh at when they make claims > about being the first passenger diesels, or some such merde. ;-) > > Alec > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] > On Behalf Of Stephen Rigley > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:55 PM > To: john > Cc: Sam Williams; diesel-benz list > Subject: Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:28:15 -0800 (PST), john > wrote: > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Sam Williams wrote: > > > > >-->Ah John. You take life too seriously. Some blame the French for > inventing > > >-->Freedom Fries, too. Where would McDonalds, indeed the whole of > American > > >-->haut cuisine be without the French? > > >-->;-) > > >-->Sam > > > > you know, that's a good point... same with mustard... where would > > we be without French's mustard? Guess we'd all have to use Grey > Poupon... ;) > > oh... or mayonnaise! ... or Pasteurised milk ... or ... ;-) > Steve > > > > > john > > > > >--> > > >-->-----Original Message----- > > >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On > > >-->Behalf Of john > > >-->Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:01 PM > > >-->To: Sam Williams > > >-->Cc: diesel-benz list > > >-->Subject: RE: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD > > >--> > > >-->oh man... you had to go and ruin it for me... > > >-->">-->changed from that introduced by the French in 1952. It uses > a > > >-->hydraulic" > > >--> > > >-->I guess the fact that it is changed does have some redeeming > value... ;) > > >--> > > >-->john > > ---- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:12:36 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:00:41AM -0800, john wrote: > oh man... you had to go and ruin it for me... > ">-->changed from that introduced by the French in 1952. It uses a hydraulic" > > I guess the fact that it is changed does have some redeeming value... ;) Actually, the liquid suspension that the French designed is a pretty cool thing, and is uncharacteristically not only good on paper, but also well executed and makes sense (unlike three lug wheels because a triangle is stronger, helicopter rotors spinning the opposite direction, the V6 they put in the volvos...). Mercedes used it in tons of cars in the rear for autolevelling (all wagons, some LWB 126s (all 560SEL), some 124s), and in both the front and rear in place of the springs on the monster 450 SEL 6.9. Keeping it happy is really just a matter of keeping the right fluid in it, changing it as prescribed, and understanding how the system works before using the shotgun approach to repair it. You don't want to have a mechanic who has never seen one before. If you have one who is otherwise gifted with these cars, make friends with a Citroen mechanic, or bribe Ron on this list who has a Citroen :) K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:02:25 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Engine shocks Heh heh, Thanks for the info.... My general rule of thumb when replacing parts is if the part is not expensive and your removing it anyway its best to replace it to save the hassle of having to replace it when it "eventually" fails...... $40 is cheaper than me blocking an afternoon of my time to get underneath my car..... :) Robert Chase Sam Williams wrote: >Robert, > >Another unverifiable urban legend for you to worry over: > >I read on other lists that the engine shocks last forever but the bushings >don't and you can renew the shock absorbing action by replacing $2.00's >worth of bushings; you don't need to buy the $40.00 shock, itself. > >You must pull the shock to replace bushings, anyway. It's not hard. Grip >the rod with a small wrench on flat spot and unscrew nuts,... . > >My old shock was far looser than the replacement so my experience runs >counter to list wisdom. Of course, one data point can't disprove a trend. > >My 30 year old dash finally cracked, had been Armoralled at some point--same >on the 40 year old Ford. If the MTBF of un-armoralled vinyl dashboards >approaches or exceeds 50 years, Armorall may be as dangerous as 'they' say. > >Sam > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >Behalf Of Robert Chase >Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:15 AM >To: [db] (E-mail) >Subject: [db] Engine shocks > >Hmmm, > >My vibration is still around.... I suspect its probably a bad engine >shock........ Anybody got a good URL on how to replace this? Im >debating doing this myself...... Then again I might bring it in :) > >Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:03:50 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [db] Engine shocks Hmmm, What would you suggest the vibration might be caused from? Robert Chase Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > The shock has nothing to do with vibration, all it does is help > stabilize the engine upon shutdown, to keep it from shaking the whole > car. > > Sam Williams wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> Another unverifiable urban legend for you to worry over: >> >> I read on other lists that the engine shocks last forever but the >> bushings >> don't and you can renew the shock absorbing action by replacing $2.00's >> worth of bushings; you don't need to buy the $40.00 shock, itself. >> >> You must pull the shock to replace bushings, anyway. It's not hard. >> Grip >> the rod with a small wrench on flat spot and unscrew nuts,... . >> My old shock was far looser than the replacement so my experience runs >> counter to list wisdom. Of course, one data point can't disprove a >> trend. >> My 30 year old dash finally cracked, had been Armoralled at some >> point--same >> on the 40 year old Ford. If the MTBF of un-armoralled vinyl dashboards >> approaches or exceeds 50 years, Armorall may be as dangerous as >> 'they' say. >> >> Sam >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >> Behalf Of Robert Chase >> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:15 AM >> To: [db] (E-mail) >> Subject: [db] Engine shocks >> >> Hmmm, >> >> My vibration is still around.... I suspect its probably a bad engine >> shock........ Anybody got a good URL on how to replace this? Im >> debating doing this myself...... Then again I might bring it in :) >> >> Robert Chase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:34:19 -0500 From: "wmpless" Subject: [db] MB ABS brakes - front wheel locking The fellow who made the statement has 2 W124, one from 86 and one from 87 and he claims on both cars the front wheels will lock up. Must admit, have not had a car yet with ABS brakes. However, was wondering whether allow you still can steer the car when making emergency/panic stops. Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:14:45 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 10:00:41AM -0800, john wrote: >-->> oh man... you had to go and ruin it for me... >-->> ">-->changed from that introduced by the French in 1952. It uses a hydraulic" >-->> >-->> I guess the fact that it is changed does have some redeeming value... ;) >--> >-->Actually, the liquid suspension that the French designed is a pretty cool >-->thing, and is uncharacteristically not only good on paper, but also well >-->executed and makes sense (unlike three lug wheels because a triangle is >-->stronger, helicopter rotors spinning the opposite direction, the V6 they >-->put in the volvos...). >--> >-->Mercedes used it in tons of cars in the rear for autolevelling (all wagons, >-->some LWB 126s (all 560SEL), some 124s), and in both the front and rear in >-->place of the springs on the monster 450 SEL 6.9. Keeping it happy is really >-->just a matter of keeping the right fluid in it, changing it as prescribed, >-->and understanding how the system works before using the shotgun approach to >-->repair it. >--> >-->You don't want to have a mechanic who has never seen one before. If you have >-->one who is otherwise gifted with these cars, make friends with a Citroen >-->mechanic, or bribe Ron on this list who has a Citroen :) I don't think the ugly ducklings had such a system... they were found on the more streamlined looking ones... they had one on Adam-12 once... had some harried french guy babbling away after being stopped for driving with only three wheels... seems someone had stolen one of his wheels so he was driving down the freeway that way... :) ah the things you remember from prime time TV... ;) john >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:30:50 -0500 From: "Mike Froedge" Subject: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD Don't do it! When I bought my 80 300TD, some previous owner had standard shocks installed on the back, and the ride quality and handling was TERRIBLE. The suspension geometry is designed for the hydraulic system......believe me, you are MUCH better off getting it working. Repairing it is not really that difficult. I bought "used" components from a friend with a wrecked wagon, and in one afternoon/evening, he and I removed the incorrect shocks and other non-working components, and installed almost the entire rear part of the system, and had it working flawlessly. I'm no genius or anything....It's just pretty simple, really. If you buy new parts, they are a bit pricey, but they'll last a LONG time, especially if you change the filter in the hydraulic reservior on a regular basis. A lot of people neglect to change this filter, and as a result, contaminated and/or dirty fluid is a common cause of system failure. Don't butcher the car by doing what seems like a "shortcut repair".....trust me, you'll regret it later. Mike Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:26:52 US/Eastern From: mfrank-at-westnet.com Subject: Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD The self-levelling rear is supposedly a bear to work on. Many people convert them to a standard suspension to save the cost of repair. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 09:40:48 -0600 From: Jan Guthrie Subject: Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD Mike, Are your sure about that? When I have heard the idea of changing over mentioned before (maybe on other lists.....) most people have said that the cost of changing over and putting on a less functional and desirable system was both expensive AND undesirable. Many repairs (like new spheres) are not that expensive and can be DIY. Several people have rebuilt (fairly easily it seems ...) the valve which also can be a problem. But it really seems that the system is pretty reliable. Besides his in not even broken yet ..... Jan Guthrie and her 1985 300TD with the original self leveling suspension. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:53:40 -0500 From: Marc Subject: Re: [db] Advice needed- 1981 300TD My '83 300TD is relatively new to me. While replacing the top 2 vent lines on top of the fuel tank last week I got a good look at the suspension parts. By the way, lowering the fuel tank without a lift is a real pain. Anyway, the parts look relatively simple and the round "tanks" are new. What type of hydraulic fluid is used? The car has a very smooth ride. Marc Z in NC Sam Williams wrote: >Sarah, > > > >Suspension fluid is a special product, costs maybe $20/liter. Using the >wrong fluid can mess up the whole system and cause expensive repairs--just >like using pancake syrup instead of power steering fluid would. > > > >Enjoy your new 300TD! > >Sam ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1699 **********************************