From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 9 01:48:43 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, February 9 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1739 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] fuel economy? RE: [db] OT: 1986 M6 Re: [db] fuel economy? Re: [db] fuel economy? Re: [db] fuel economy? RE: [db] OT: 1986 M6 Re: [db] 190D getting a bit "crunchy" RE: [db] fuel economy? Re: [db] fuel economy? [db] Re: 1986 190D 2.5 automatic RE: [db] fuel economy? Re: [db] fuel economy? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:16:32 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? Now I don't know why this still bothers me but it does ;) I know it wasn't an SUV but I was getting 60+ MPG with my diesel Escort over 15 years ago! And that could carry 5 people! Now when Mercedes offers a roller skate with sheet metal that only carrys TWO people it's a revolution! Give me a break! Put a nice new, environmentally friendly, fuel efficient diesel into a Focus or similar and I'm there! AND it should get almost 60 MPG also! Either that or my Escort was just some kind of anomaly! ;) Jim/ > If you wait until next year, Mercedes is planning to import an SUV version > of the Smart car.... > http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/91/super-size.html > > Mike Frank > > At 11:49 PM 2/7/2005, john wrote: > >out of all the SUV's/AWD's... > > with an automatic... > > any make, or size... > > > >what are the most economical? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 10:57:43 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" Subject: RE: [db] OT: 1986 M6 John, Nice looking car. You should keep it and pop in a nice diesel to replace that gas guzzling engine. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:32 AM To: full size jeep list; xj-list; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; diesel-benz list Subject: [db] OT: 1986 M6 http://wagoneers.com/tmp/BMW/all-M6.jpg http://wagoneers.com/tmp/BMW/ ...a friend is moving, possibly out of the country... and has decided to sell his M6. He was a driver on the BMW racing team... This car is absolutely perfect in every way. Fully loaded... I'll be listing it on ebay Saturday evening or Sunday... will take detailed pictures and test drive it early Saturday. http://wagoneers.com/tmp/BMW/BMW20050004.jpg Opening without a reserve around $8k. Preliminary research indicates It's worth well over $10k, possibly much more... I'll gather techincal details and more on it's history... it's a very rare car... Any particular items I should photograph in extreme detail? my ebay handle is dieseljohn (don't have anything up there right now...) I'm looking at a 2002 KJ tomorrow with 120,000 miles on it for less than $10k... ;) at 16/20mpg I'm not sure how excited I'll be... but the bargain hunter in me has to look. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 12:43:28 US/Eastern From: mfrank-at-westnet.com Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, J.B. Hebert wrote: > the liberty's have a very heavy undercarriage... stupid really... they > weigh more than the WJ/WK's. The problem with these vehicles is high center of gravity...a heavy undercarriage is unfortunately a useful design point to counterbalance the too- tall superstructure. For example, four wheel drive Explorers had less tendency to roll than two-wheel drive Explorers, all other things equal. Why not get yourself a Fourmatic station wagon? Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 12:54:52 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? I had an '80 VW Rabbit with an 82 engine and 5speed... hammer down in traffic, 45mpg... driving easy, 55+. john On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Now I don't know why this still bothers me but it does ;) >--> >-->I know it wasn't an SUV but I was getting 60+ MPG with my diesel >-->Escort over 15 years ago! And that could carry 5 people! Now when >-->Mercedes offers a roller skate with sheet metal that only carrys >-->TWO people it's a revolution! Give me a break! Put a nice new, >-->environmentally friendly, fuel efficient diesel into a Focus or >-->similar and I'm there! AND it should get almost 60 MPG also! >--> >-->Either that or my Escort was just some kind of anomaly! >--> >-->;) >--> >-->Jim/ >--> >-->> If you wait until next year, Mercedes is planning to import an SUV >-->version >-->> of the Smart car.... >-->> http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/91/super-size.html >-->> >-->> Mike Frank >-->> >-->> At 11:49 PM 2/7/2005, john wrote: >-->> >out of all the SUV's/AWD's... >-->> > with an automatic... >-->> > any make, or size... >-->> > >-->> >what are the most economical? >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:03:49 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? the jeeps have a fairly low center of gravity, by design... fords and imports often do not... explorers are scary to drive... 4matic isn't a bad idea, if it were a diesel... can't imagine living with Rube Goldberg and a gas engine too... ;) john On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 mfrank-at-westnet.com wrote: >-->> On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, J.B. Hebert wrote: >--> >-->> the liberty's have a very heavy undercarriage... stupid really... they >-->> weigh more than the WJ/WK's. >--> >-->The problem with these vehicles is high center of gravity...a heavy >-->undercarriage is unfortunately a useful design point to counterbalance the too- >-->tall superstructure. For example, four wheel drive Explorers had less tendency >-->to roll than two-wheel drive Explorers, all other things equal. >--> >-->Why not get yourself a Fourmatic station wagon? >--> >-->Mike Frank >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:10:09 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] OT: 1986 M6 well, I'd be happy if it had an automatic. ;) john On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Sam Williams wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->Nice looking car. You should keep it and pop in a nice diesel to replace >-->that gas guzzling engine. >--> >-->Sam >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >-->Behalf Of john >-->Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:32 AM >-->To: full size jeep list; xj-list; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; diesel-benz list >-->Subject: [db] OT: 1986 M6 >--> >--> http://wagoneers.com/tmp/BMW/all-M6.jpg >--> >--> http://wagoneers.com/tmp/BMW/ >--> >-->...a friend is moving, possibly out of the country... and has decided >-->to sell his M6. He was a driver on the BMW racing team... This car >-->is absolutely perfect in every way. Fully loaded... >--> >-->I'll be listing it on ebay Saturday evening or Sunday... >-->will take detailed pictures and test drive it early Saturday. >--> >--> http://wagoneers.com/tmp/BMW/BMW20050004.jpg >--> >-->Opening without a reserve around $8k. Preliminary research indicates >-->It's worth well over $10k, possibly much more... I'll gather techincal >-->details and more on it's history... it's a very rare car... >--> >-->Any particular items I should photograph in extreme detail? >-->my ebay handle is dieseljohn (don't have anything up there right now...) >--> >-->I'm looking at a 2002 KJ tomorrow with 120,000 miles on it for less than >-->$10k... ;) at 16/20mpg I'm not sure how excited I'll be... but the >-->bargain hunter in me has to look. :) >--> >-->john >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 15:05:12 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] 190D getting a bit "crunchy" On Tue, Feb 08, 2005 at 03:27:56PM +0000, Stephen Rigley wrote: > Now that we're into the cold weather, I've noticed that the car gets > a bit crunchy in the morning. 1st gear has a bit of a crunch, and when > sitting at lights with the clutch out, it's making a bit of a weird > noise. Do release bearings tend to go on these cars? Any other > suggestions welcomed! Crunchy? I wouldn't describe the noises the transmission in my 190D (2.2) was making as crunchy. It had more of a howl on the throttle in first (especially at or above 3000 rpm), and it had a ratchety sound when you pushed the clutch in and coasted in first, second, or third gear. Noise with the clutch out in neutral could be any number of things. My eagle wagon used to rattle the heat shield on the muffler when it idled with the clutch out. Boy did that take me forever to find. :) I've only lost one release bearing, and it was in a medium duty ford truck - the howling was something else. Having seen the 190D's release bearing, I'd imagine it would make more of a typical bearing noise than a crunching noise if it was failing. According to Derick, the cracks in the gears on my transmission could be seen while he was changing the fluid in the transmission. I never pulled the plug to have a peek myself (though I still have the old transmission, I suppose I could) - it made noises, so I swapped it out with another transmission from a junkyard. I'd probably change the transmission oil if you haven't yet, especially if you notice it's a little bit harder to shift - maybe the oil is too viscous or something, and that is what is causing [most of] your problems. K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:52:42 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] fuel economy? DC plans have changed. The Smart is not coming for at least another year or two. According to a quick check on www.fueleconomy.gov, other than the Hybrid Escape, the best mileage in what they list as the SUV Market Class is the Subies. Subaru Forester and Outback AWD with flat 4 and automatic trannies both rated at 22/28. Manuals rated a little higher. Behind the Subarus, The Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4, both with 4WD and automatics, are rated at 22/27. Just imagine what these things could get with a modern little diesel. I'm thinking high 20s city, mid 30s highway? Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Mike Frank > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:46 AM > To: diesel-benz list > Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? > > > If you wait until next year, Mercedes is planning to import an > SUV version > of the Smart car.... > http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/91/super-size.html > > Mike Frank > > At 11:49 PM 2/7/2005, john wrote: > >out of all the SUV's/AWD's... > > with an automatic... > > any make, or size... > > > >what are the most economical? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 03:01:10 +0000 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? Well, as a single data point, my 2000 Mercedes ML320 (gas, since they didn't offer a diesel) typically gets around 23-24 mpg highway (often see 25-27 mpg on longer highway trips), although it does drop down to around 16-19 mpg in city (Seattle) commute traffic (as it is subjected to each week by my wife). YMMV, of course. I know the EPA rating for the ML320 (along with the numbers on the sticker when we got it) show a much worse performance. - -bkc '76 MB 240D '00 MB ML320 On Mon Feb 07, 2005, john wrote: > out of all the SUV's/AWD's... > with an automatic... > any make, or size... > > what are the most economical? > > it does NOT have to be a Jeep. ;) > hey, I'd even consider a RAV4 at this point... > > > btw, found a 2002 Liberty for under $10k... but > it's rated at 16/20mpg ... looking tomorrow > morning... > > the new CRD Liberty's with the 2.8L Diesel are going > to leave the showroom with a price tag of $25k to > $31K... :( but not with me... ;) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 01:36:59 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: [db] Re: 1986 190D 2.5 automatic My average for my 2.5L over the last 30,000 miles is 29.56. Best is 39.75, worst around 27... most of my driving is in town... I bounce between 31 and 30 it seems. :) john On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, wmpless wrote: >-->Hello John, >-->thanks for your reply. >-->Last summer checked the fuel consumption over 2500 miles with not exceeding speed limit by 10%, fairly even mix of highway, country roads and city, 195x65x15" tires, no a/c average 33.3 m/US gall. about 7.1l per 100km. With the 2.2L engine averaged about 0.5l less but driving in heavier traffic is a lot more work. Definitely prefer the 2.5L engine in the car. >--> >-->You wrote: >-->I didn't like my 190d, but it had the 2.2L... I'd been much happier had it >-->had the engine that's in my 124... :) would imagine that it would get better >-->mileage too... what do you get? >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 01:44:59 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] fuel economy? I kind of like the size of the RAV4s and the Ford Escapes... I drove an Escape in Missouri when I taught a class there... it was ok... if I got one cheap enough... but my mileage was only about 18 or so, not impressive. I looked at a KJ this morning... it was ok, not impressive... I'd rather get another XJ... looking at the numbers again... thinking... enjoying the 124... The KJ is 16/20, the XJ about the same, my '87 was 17/21... my 124 consistently gets 30+ in town... even with gas prices at 1.89 and Diesel at 2.23, it still makes sense to drive a 124 Diesel... If I ditched everything I had, got one XJ or KJ and drove it, with the savings/costs all factored in for fuel and insurance, assuming no car payment, meaning I'd be buying "very" used... then to drive a gas rig that got 18mpg would cost me about $300/yr MORE than having my 124, my Jimmy/Willys and eventually my J10. Insurance costs almost make this work... If Diesel were priced as it has been historically we wouldn't be having this conversation at all... So, at this point the 124 looks to be the best value... will sell the Jimmy as soon as the Willys is ready, then sell the willys as soon as the J10 is done... so, it looks like it'll be the 124, the WJ and the J10, with the J10 trailer... other thoughts are bound to occur... have to... otherwise Orville Redenbacher would have to intervene. ;) john On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->DC plans have changed. The Smart is not coming for at least another year or >-->two. >--> >-->According to a quick check on www.fueleconomy.gov, other than the Hybrid >-->Escape, the best mileage in what they list as the SUV Market Class is the >-->Subies. Subaru Forester and Outback AWD with flat 4 and automatic trannies >-->both rated at 22/28. Manuals rated a little higher. Behind the Subarus, The >-->Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4, both with 4WD and automatics, are rated at >-->22/27. >--> >-->Just imagine what these things could get with a modern little diesel. I'm >-->thinking high 20s city, mid 30s highway? >--> >-->Alec >--> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Mike Frank >-->> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:46 AM >-->> To: diesel-benz list >-->> Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? >-->> >-->> >-->> If you wait until next year, Mercedes is planning to import an >-->> SUV version >-->> of the Smart car.... >-->> http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/91/super-size.html >-->> >-->> Mike Frank >-->> >-->> At 11:49 PM 2/7/2005, john wrote: >-->> >out of all the SUV's/AWD's... >-->> > with an automatic... >-->> > any make, or size... >-->> > >-->> >what are the most economical? >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 01:47:59 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? this is excellent input... 16 to 19 in town... was wondering about the ML series... and Seattle... cool. My 124 consistently gives 30 to 31mpg on the I-5 into Seattle commute... going from Seattle to Spokane I can almost hit 40mpg... :) My '87 XJ gave about 17mpg or better on a similar commute... my wife's '99 WJ is around 18 or so... haven't really taken it further than Leavenworth though... john On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Bruce Caruthers wrote: >-->Well, as a single data point, my 2000 Mercedes ML320 >-->(gas, since they didn't offer a diesel) typically >-->gets around 23-24 mpg highway (often see 25-27 mpg >-->on longer highway trips), although it does drop down >-->to around 16-19 mpg in city (Seattle) commute traffic >-->(as it is subjected to each week by my wife). >--> >-->YMMV, of course. I know the EPA rating for the >-->ML320 (along with the numbers on the sticker when >-->we got it) show a much worse performance. >--> >-->-bkc >-->'76 MB 240D >-->'00 MB ML320 >--> >--> >-->On Mon Feb 07, 2005, john wrote: >-->> out of all the SUV's/AWD's... >-->> with an automatic... >-->> any make, or size... >-->> >-->> what are the most economical? >-->> >-->> it does NOT have to be a Jeep. ;) >-->> hey, I'd even consider a RAV4 at this point... >-->> >-->> >-->> btw, found a 2002 Liberty for under $10k... but >-->> it's rated at 16/20mpg ... looking tomorrow >-->> morning... >-->> >-->> the new CRD Liberty's with the 2.8L Diesel are going >-->> to leave the showroom with a price tag of $25k to >-->> $31K... :( but not with me... ;) >-->> >-->> john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1739 **********************************