From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 18 23:59:22 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, February 19 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1748 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Using 228.3 diesel-approved oil in a gasser? Re: [db] Using 228.3 diesel-approved oil in a gasser? [db] Ugh..... Re: [db] Automatic Transmission [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 RE: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 RE: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 Re: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 [db] A/C Clutch Re: [db] Ugh..... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:28:08 -0600 From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: [db] Using 228.3 diesel-approved oil in a gasser? With my 89 300CE's current drinking problem as relates to oil (mostly leaking), I'm getting tired of using synthetic motor oil. I'm having trouble finding a conventional oil locally that meets MB 229.x spec. I can readily find Chevron Delo 400 15W-40, which meets MB 228.3 spec for diesels. What say you all about using the Delo 400 in my 181K mile M103 gasser? Thanks, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 181K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:05:15 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Using 228.3 diesel-approved oil in a gasser? the oils are designed differently... one for spark ignition, one for compression... I would think that the compression rated oil might help oil consumption... can't imagine it hurting anything, as most Diesel oils also carry the "S" rating... john On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >-->With my 89 300CE's current drinking problem as relates to oil (mostly >-->leaking), I'm getting tired of using synthetic motor oil. >--> >-->I'm having trouble finding a conventional oil locally that meets MB 229.x >-->spec. I can readily find Chevron Delo 400 15W-40, which meets MB 228.3 spec >-->for diesels. What say you all about using the Delo 400 in my 181K mile M103 >-->gasser? >--> >-->Thanks, >-->Alec Cordova >-->Taylor, Texas >-->89 300CE, 181K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:01:26 -0500 From: Jason R Bassett Subject: [db] Ugh..... My benz is parked, and destined to be so for awhile. I am now fairly sure that I have either a blown head gasket or really messed up rings on #2 cylinder. I suspect the head gasket because of the following things: 1. Thursday on the way home from work with no sign of trouble from the gauges, I stopped at an intersection and noticed it running slightly rough. I thought I had a fuel filter clogging or an injector that was clogging. I drove it to work Friday (after changing the oil with our favorite Delo 400) and it didn't change much. The cylinder was firing weakly when engine was warm. I had to go to northern Michigan that night, and did. When I was there, it was running a bit rougher, but all four cylinders were firing at 65/70MPH. 2. On the way back, things got interesting. I noticed shortly after leaving to go back to Ohio that at 70mph, my temperature which is usually about 83c was up to about 98c and holding there; also, it was running very strangely. I pulled off an exit ramp, and the thing died on me and refused to start again until I let it cool down some. It still wants to run hot ever since I first noticed it; if I try to hold it anywhere above 45mph, it rises above the usual 83c. (Before, I could go 65/70mph this time of year and it would sit on 83.) 3. Still later on in the trip, I started having oil management issues. Apparently it leaked enough out that there was only drips in the pan, because the gauge started to bounce. Fortunately I had more oil in the car and I caught it immediately, and nothing was harmed by that incident (that I can tell.) So I put more oil in and went down the road some more. I think it took about 2 gallons of oil to go another 300 miles......that is rather radical, even for these machines. So I pulled the PCV hose out of the intake manifold and discovered that the crankcase exhaust had roughly tripled. Yikes! Also, I found that the oil pressure was behaving very strangely......when I let the engine speed drop going from one freeway to another the oil pressure dropped off so sharply that I stopped the engine and coasted to where I could look underneath to make sure I hadn't busted a seal or something....checked the level....was OK......started it up again......weird, the pressure was back. Went on this way and it still is so now.....idles at about 1/3 bar of pressure with the engine hot.....very unnerving.......exhaust reeks of oil..... Interestingly though, I do not have any intermixture of oil and coolant. This precludes head gasket in some people's minds, but I have another theory: An oil passage runs near the #2 cylinder, and the gasket separating the two is blown through, so it loses compression to the crankcase and sucks oil into the cylinder. Other possibilities could include of course bad piston rings on #2, cracked head, cracked block, etc, but since the temperature had not even been above 83c for months before this all happened, I doubt the crack theory. Tom at BuyMBParts suggested that I should take the head off, and that this would tell me everything I needed to know (and he's right) but how hard is this to do? What weird tools will I need? Can I up and replace the timing chain while I'm at it? (Something I've been wanting to do for awhile....) Can I do it without ruining the old timing chain? I love this Benz and I don't want to kill it, but right now I am at a loss for how to keep it alive. Help me keep my Kitty alive! Thanks! Jason P.S. I also have a tranny oddity......I parked it one night, rolled it backwards with the engine off, and then couldn't get it to engage! In fact, it squealed something when I tried. (It's automatic) All I can think of is that I must have scooted something by letting it roll back in reverse rather than neutral, and if I give it a shove with the engine running, get the vehicle moving a bit and then put it in gear, it should catch. I hope........what else could it be? Park holds, so it's nothing behind the tranny. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:55:13 -0500 From: Jason R Bassett Subject: Re: [db] Automatic Transmission My 240D has no Bowden linkage; only the vacuum. When it works, it's perfect. When the vacuum is flukey, it gets really strange........shifts only by the rev-limiter, shifts like you dropped the clutch, and just generally acts strange. Fix the vacuum, it's a brand new tranny. Jason 240D "Kitty" "Help me! Mew!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:02:09 -0500 From: "Mueller, David" Subject: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 I suspect the previous owner did no maintenance apart from oil changes for the last several years. I had the transmission fluid changed and it REALLY needed it. Now I am getting myself up to check and adjust the valves. I have read two ways to get at the valves. A Chilton manual describes taking all the throttle linkage off the valve cover. However, the MB manual on CD seems to indicate the cable can be undone and a rod disconnected but the linkage left on the cover. This sounds easier. I intend to rotate the engine with a hand switch with the glow plugs out so it turns freely without compression. As long as I have the glow plugs out, what sort of adapter will I need to attach my compression gauge (for use in 14mm and 10mm spark plug holes). Thought I might as well check compression as long as the glow plugs are out. I was having some cold starting problems, and though I have not adjusted the valves, yet, did find one bad glow plug and replaced it and am now starting well down to 20 degrees without drama. Any tips on valve adjustment would be much appreciated. The adjustment itself looks just about like any engine, once I get the cover off. Thanks, David Mueller, Washington, DC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:44:16 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" Subject: RE: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 David, First, rethink the compression testing. When your engine produces sufficient compression, the mixture in the cylinder (and compression tester) will ignite--that can be pretty hard on a compression tester. Diesel compression testers often go in fuel injector hole, not in glow plug hole. Removing the linkage is not difficult. I like to take everything apart to clean thoroughly when I do a valve adjustment. At minimum, you want to pop all the little ball joints apart at rod ends, clean and lubricate with ATF. For valve adjustment, it helps greatly to have the set of 3 Hazet wrenches designed for the purpose. You may find it difficult to get the adjustments right using a combination of straight wrenches and crows feet. The special wrenches are thin and made with long offset handles. They are available from most MB parts places for about $35/ea (slightly more with MB logo). Have fun, Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Mueller, David Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:02 PM To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 I suspect the previous owner did no maintenance apart from oil changes for the last several years. I had the transmission fluid changed and it REALLY needed it. Now I am getting myself up to check and adjust the valves. I have read two ways to get at the valves. A Chilton manual describes taking all the throttle linkage off the valve cover. However, the MB manual on CD seems to indicate the cable can be undone and a rod disconnected but the linkage left on the cover. This sounds easier. I intend to rotate the engine with a hand switch with the glow plugs out so it turns freely without compression. As long as I have the glow plugs out, what sort of adapter will I need to attach my compression gauge (for use in 14mm and 10mm spark plug holes). Thought I might as well check compression as long as the glow plugs are out. I was having some cold starting problems, and though I have not adjusted the valves, yet, did find one bad glow plug and replaced it and am now starting well down to 20 degrees without drama. Any tips on valve adjustment would be much appreciated. The adjustment itself looks just about like any engine, once I get the cover off. Thanks, David Mueller, Washington, DC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:06:35 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 If you're gonna skip the compression test (or even if you're not), spend much less time than that would have taken to check timing chain stretch while you're in there. The procedure should be in the archives. (http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/digests/, and I would guess that Google's Advanced Search could dig through there for you) Last time I saw OM617 valves was when a mechanic friend of mine helped me adjust the valves on my 85 300D maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Yeah, he did most of the work. He did not have the Hazet thin offset wrenches. He just had a good preofessional mechanic's collection. He was an air-cooled VW nut at the time, so if thin offset wrenches would be standard kit for a bug nut, he probably had them, but I don't remember any of the tools we used looking anything but standard and professional. On the whole, the procedure struck me as very straightforward. As to the linkage, if you have a Polaroid or a digital camera, just take a few pics beforehand, snap them all apart, clean and lube like Sam says, then just make them look like they do in the pictures when you put it all back together. ;-) I certainly didn't take mine all apart, but I don't remember how little we did disconnect. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 181K > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Sam Williams > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:44 PM > To: 'Mueller, David'; diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 > > > David, > > First, rethink the compression testing. When your engine produces > sufficient compression, the mixture in the cylinder (and > compression tester) > will ignite--that can be pretty hard on a compression tester. Diesel > compression testers often go in fuel injector hole, not in glow plug hole. > > Removing the linkage is not difficult. I like to take everything apart to > clean thoroughly when I do a valve adjustment. At minimum, you > want to pop > all the little ball joints apart at rod ends, clean and lubricate > with ATF. > > > For valve adjustment, it helps greatly to have the set of 3 Hazet wrenches > designed for the purpose. You may find it difficult to get the > adjustments > right using a combination of straight wrenches and crows feet. > The special > wrenches are thin and made with long offset handles. They are available > from most MB parts places for about $35/ea (slightly more with MB logo). > > Have fun, > > Sam > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On > Behalf Of Mueller, David > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:02 PM > To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 > > I suspect the previous owner did no maintenance apart from oil changes for > the last several years. I had the transmission fluid changed and > it REALLY > needed it. Now I am getting myself up to check and adjust the valves. I > have read two ways to get at the valves. A Chilton manual > describes taking > all the throttle linkage off the valve cover. However, the MB > manual on CD > seems to indicate the cable can be undone and a rod disconnected but the > linkage left on the cover. This sounds easier. I intend to rotate the > engine with a hand switch with the glow plugs out so it turns > freely without > compression. As long as I have the glow plugs out, what sort of adapter > will I need to attach my compression gauge (for use in 14mm and 10mm spark > plug holes). Thought I might as well check compression as long > as the glow > plugs are out. I was having some cold starting problems, and > though I have > not adjusted the valves, yet, did find one bad glow plug and > replaced it and > am now starting well down to 20 degrees without drama. > > > > Any tips on valve adjustment would be much appreciated. The adjustment > itself looks just about like any engine, once I get the cover off. > > > > Thanks, David Mueller, Washington, DC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:28:32 -0800 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] valve adjustment procedure on 300sd 1982 Mueller, David wrote: >I suspect the previous owner did no maintenance apart from oil changes for >the last several years. I had the transmission fluid changed and it REALLY >needed it. Now I am getting myself up to check and adjust the valves. I >have read two ways to get at the valves. A Chilton manual describes taking >all the throttle linkage off the valve cover. However, the MB manual on CD >seems to indicate the cable can be undone and a rod disconnected but the >linkage left on the cover. This sounds easier. I intend to rotate the >engine with a hand switch with the glow plugs out so it turns freely without >compression. As long as I have the glow plugs out, what sort of adapter >will I need to attach my compression gauge (for use in 14mm and 10mm spark >plug holes). Thought I might as well check compression as long as the glow >plugs are out. I was having some cold starting problems, and though I have >not adjusted the valves, yet, did find one bad glow plug and replaced it and >am now starting well down to 20 degrees without drama. > > > >Any tips on valve adjustment would be much appreciated. The adjustment >itself looks just about like any engine, once I get the cover off. > > > >Thanks, David Mueller, Washington, DC > >David: > > I would not pull the glow plugs. If your battery and starter motor are normal you will have no trouble cranking. The Hazet wrench set makes this a lot easier, I've done this with and without. Take your time and be sure you have the proper "feel" on each valve. Have fun! Greg - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/05 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:16:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: [db] A/C Clutch Hi guys, Looks like I'll be pulling the AC clutch on the 300D next week. That is, if the clutch puller kit I ordered arrives in time. And if its the right kit. Apparently, the R4 compressor comes in a few different flavors, and there's no telling what's in the car. I need working AC because the Mercedes is going to spend some time in Fresno, sitting in a carport at Fresno-Chandler airport waiting for me to fly in. And unless you're a masochist, you DONT run a car in Fresno in the summer without AC. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:58:07 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] Ugh..... On Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 02:01:26PM -0500, Jason R Bassett wrote: > Interestingly though, I do not have any intermixture of oil and coolant. > This precludes head gasket in some people's minds, but I have another > theory: An oil passage runs near the #2 cylinder, and the gasket > separating the two is blown through, so it loses compression to the > crankcase and sucks oil into the cylinder. Other possibilities could > include of course bad piston rings on #2, cracked head, cracked block, > etc, but since the temperature had not even been above 83c for months > before this all happened, I doubt the crack theory. If this was a 190D, or 300D/300SDL after 85, I'd guess you blew the head gasket between the timing cover and cylinder #1. I don't know 200/220/240D engines well enough to know if that's a possibility (or 300D/300SD before 86 for that matter). That will cause that level of oil consumption. A blown headgasket doesn't necessarily mean oil and coolant will mix. Oil and coolant mixed usually signals that you should hope it's just a head gasket. There are other ways the head gasket can blow that wouldn't land oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil - the blow near #1 and the timing cover is an example of this/ I'd probably start off by checking the compression, to see which cylinder is giving you the problems. You're pretty much guaranteed you're yanking the head off. If you don't see evidence of a blown head gasket on the cylinder with the low compression, the head should be checked by a machinist for cracks or warpage. If the machinist does not find any problems with the head and you didn't find it on the gasket, it's probably better to find a used engine to drop in. Rebuilt engines will clear $3000. Of course, some will say that the compression test is a waste of time. About the only reason I'd do it is for my own piece of mind - to make sure I found the problem on the right cylinder. > Tom at BuyMBParts suggested that I should take the head off, and that > this would tell me everything I needed to know (and he's right) but how > hard is this to do? What weird tools will I need? Can I up and replace > the timing chain while I'm at it? (Something I've been wanting to do for > awhile....) Can I do it without ruining the old timing chain? Since the cam is on top of the head, removal of the head will require removal and replacement of the timing chain. Generally speaking, if your chain has a decent amount of wear on it, and you're yanking the head, you might as well get a new chain. > P.S. I also have a tranny oddity......I parked it one night, rolled it > backwards with the engine off, and then couldn't get it to engage! In > fact, it squealed something when I tried. (It's automatic) All I can > think of is that I must have scooted something by letting it roll back in > reverse rather than neutral, and if I give it a shove with the engine > running, get the vehicle moving a bit and then put it in gear, it should > catch. I hope........what else could it be? Park holds, so it's nothing > behind the tranny. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!! I don't know what to tell you there, but it does not look good. K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1748 **********************************