From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Mar 11 07:33:41 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 11 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1771 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] biodiesel in seattle Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle [db] W123 grille Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle Re: [db] W123 grille RE: [db] W123 grille Re: [db] W123 grille Re: [db] W123 grille [db] longevity of auto transmission? (trannies?) Re: [db] longevity of auto transmission? (trannies?) Re: [db] longevity of auto transmission? (trannies?) RE: [db] biodiesel in seattle RE: [db] biodiesel in seattle Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:15:18 -0600 From: Sam Williams Subject: RE: [db] biodiesel in seattle Scott, A good site. Glad to see the anti-gel products listed. Hope I don't need it often in Texas. Sam On Thu, 2005-03-10 at 14:45 -0700, scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: > Jim, > > Found the following web-site, which seems to have some good ideas for you: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html > > R, > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > scott_haaland-at-agilent.com > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 1:39 PM > To: jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: [db] biodiesel in seattle > > > Jim, > > SVO = Straight Vegetable Oil = Veggie Oil > > SVO does not equal BioDiesel. > > BioDiesel is created from SVO that is run through a chemical process. I > don't > know if BioDiesel has the same gelling problems as SVO....you may be able to > run it straight...whereas with SVO, you would have problems in cold weather, > without making heater mods and such. > > R, > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jim Hoffman > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 1:18 PM > To: diesel-benz list > Subject: Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle > > > Dan, > > You are correct. However, if you noticed my P.S. I *don't want* > to blend ANY dino diesel. If biodiesel is supposed to have more > energy, better lubricating properties, less pollution, etc., I want > to run *straight* biodiesel. There *has* to be a way to minimize > the gelling without using dinodiesel... That is my quest ;) > > Jim/ > > > > Well, I'm going to stay away from SVO... To much monkeyin' around > > > with heaters, etc. > > > > You can blend No 2 diesel and Veggie oil, lower the gel point of the SVO > > this way, and if you get the veggie oil for free or very cheap (filter it > > before blending if at all possible, and carry extra fuel filters just in > > case), then you are coming out ahead if you don't count the time involved. > > > > Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:21:24 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Sam Williams wrote: >-->disappears). Anybody know how to remove that residue? I wonder if >-->veggie oil leaves deposits in engines, fuel lines. Haven't had any >-->problems yet, tho--and it's been a few years. >-->Sam hardening of the arteries? :) need to get the low cholesterol version. :) or take Soya Lecithin supplements. ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:38:33 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: [db] W123 grille My brother's 300D grille looks like it has seen better days. While just replacing the chrome strips would make a large improvement, it has a couple of cracks behind the chrome strips. It's also missing a hood ornament. Junkyards seem to think the grille is made out of gold, and seem to want about ten dollars more for a used one than a new one, which is still over a hundred bucks. Robert, didn't you find some aftermarket grille that was cheaper by a lot that worked out for your 300SD? Do you have a picture of it? Where did you get it? Needless to say, this isn't a concours quality 300D :) Thanks... K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:24:29 -0800 From: "Dan Jacobs" Subject: Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle > Dan, > > You are correct. However, if you noticed my P.S. I *don't want* > to blend ANY dino diesel. If biodiesel is supposed to have more > energy, better lubricating properties, less pollution, etc., I want > to run *straight* biodiesel. There *has* to be a way to minimize > the gelling without using dinodiesel... That is my quest ;) > > Jim/ Make sure you live in a warmer climate until some company cares enough about SVO use that they make an SVO specific anti-gel/conditioner. Or, hire a chemist and get to work. Sarcasm, I love it! Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:41:44 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] W123 grille wasn't aurora autowrecking here in seattle selling those new for a c note? john On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->My brother's 300D grille looks like it has seen better days. While just >-->replacing the chrome strips would make a large improvement, it has a >-->couple of cracks behind the chrome strips. It's also missing a hood ornament. >--> >-->Junkyards seem to think the grille is made out of gold, and seem to want >-->about ten dollars more for a used one than a new one, which is still over >-->a hundred bucks. Robert, didn't you find some aftermarket grille that was >-->cheaper by a lot that worked out for your 300SD? Do you have a picture of it? >-->Where did you get it? Needless to say, this isn't a concours quality 300D :) >--> >-->Thanks... >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:07:18 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" Subject: RE: [db] W123 grille Kevin, The grille is made of many separate pieces; some are even inexpensive. You can get an aftermarket hood ornament (not quite as shiny as one with MB part number on it but a major improvement over none) for $<20. That, plus the plastic honeycomb and a few chrome strips should be a major improvement. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Pekarek Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:39 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] W123 grille My brother's 300D grille looks like it has seen better days. While just replacing the chrome strips would make a large improvement, it has a couple of cracks behind the chrome strips. It's also missing a hood ornament. Junkyards seem to think the grille is made out of gold, and seem to want about ten dollars more for a used one than a new one, which is still over a hundred bucks. Robert, didn't you find some aftermarket grille that was cheaper by a lot that worked out for your 300SD? Do you have a picture of it? Where did you get it? Needless to say, this isn't a concours quality 300D :) Thanks... K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:14:04 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: [db] W123 grille On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 07:07:18PM -0600, Sam Williams wrote: > The grille is made of many separate pieces; some are even inexpensive. You > can get an aftermarket hood ornament (not quite as shiny as one with MB part > number on it but a major improvement over none) for $<20. That, plus the > plastic honeycomb and a few chrome strips should be a major improvement. Is there a particular aftermarket source we prefer? Like John says, a new one from aurora is a hundred bucks, and yards my brother has contacted want somewhere around $120 for a used one. His grille surround is in decent shape, the honeycomb and strip idea seems like the way to go. Thanks. K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:46:39 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] W123 grille you might try pricing the pieces on performance products or getting in touch with rusty or a dealership even... john On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 07:07:18PM -0600, Sam Williams wrote: >-->> The grille is made of many separate pieces; some are even inexpensive. You >-->> can get an aftermarket hood ornament (not quite as shiny as one with MB part >-->> number on it but a major improvement over none) for $<20. That, plus the >-->> plastic honeycomb and a few chrome strips should be a major improvement. >--> >-->Is there a particular aftermarket source we prefer? Like John says, a new >-->one from aurora is a hundred bucks, and yards my brother has contacted want >-->somewhere around $120 for a used one. >--> >-->His grille surround is in decent shape, the honeycomb and strip idea seems >-->like the way to go. >--> >-->Thanks. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:43:29 -0800 (PST) From: bree kna Subject: [db] longevity of auto transmission? (trannies?) been looking at a '83 240D locally with 246k miles on the original (un-rebuilt/un-replaced) tranny. How long can one expect the original transmission to last? Heck, while we're at it, how about the motor? Are there particular models that are more favorable to others? (I've recently checked out diesel Benzes due to fuel economy issues and crashworthiness). Thank you, Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:18:42 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] longevity of auto transmission? (trannies?) I've had several Mercedes Diesels that rolled over 200K on the odometer with the original transmission... in a 240d you can easily expect that thing to outlast the car... it's not getting strained. ;) My son had an '83 300D with over 275,000 miles on it and it was doing fine... I've heard of 240d's going well into the 300-400k range without being rebuilt. My '91 300D has about 204k on it... going strong, 30mpg in town... has a 2.5L TD. :) john On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, bree kna wrote: >-->been looking at a '83 240D locally with 246k miles on >-->the original (un-rebuilt/un-replaced) tranny. How >-->long can one expect the original transmission to last? >--> Heck, while we're at it, how about the motor? >--> >-->Are there particular models that are more favorable to >-->others? (I've recently checked out diesel Benzes due >-->to fuel economy issues and crashworthiness). >--> >-->Thank you, >-->Brian >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 00:18:52 -0600 From: Sam Williams Subject: Re: [db] longevity of auto transmission? (trannies?) Brian, The 83 240D is last of the model (only a few made in 84)--by then they got everything right. The engine is extremely durable, can probably go 500k miles with adequate care. The transmission is same as in other 123 body MBs with more powerful engines--they last a long time but might need some attention before 500k miles. Of course, this is a 20+ year old car with almost 1/4 million miles on the clock--but that means less than for any other 22 year old 1/4 million mile car you could find. Some think this particular car (83/84 240D) is best car MB ever made. Though less-than-ideal for drag-racing and less quiet than newer cars, for durable, practical transportation it can't be beat. It is more crashworthy than many, if not most, cars on the road today and was best in the world when new. Fuel economy will probably be close to 30mpg-- depending on how you drive it. Get a copy of the maintenance schedule, follow that and it might give you another 22 years and 1/4 million miles. Very important: MB dealers and most 3rd-party MB shops offer a Pre- Purchase Inspection (~$100 for very thorough check--consider further tests on advice of the mechanic who checks it--usually unnecessary). If you like the car and decide to buy it, get a PPI first. It could save you purchase price if they find something big that you overlooked or it will provide you with a list of repairs you will want to make over the years and/or give you ammunition for negotiating price if they find some expensive failure imminent. Have fun, Sam On Thu, 2005-03-10 at 19:43 -0800, bree kna wrote: > been looking at a '83 240D locally with 246k miles on > the original (un-rebuilt/un-replaced) tranny. How > long can one expect the original transmission to last? > Heck, while we're at it, how about the motor? > > Are there particular models that are more favorable to > others? (I've recently checked out diesel Benzes due > to fuel economy issues and crashworthiness). > > Thank you, > Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:26:16 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: RE: [db] biodiesel in seattle Hi Scott, Yes, I am completely aware of the vast differences. *I* was talking about true biodiesel, not SVO. I think the confusion came about because the original post's subject says biodiesel but talked about SVO ;) Anyway, SVO in this climate would not work. Biodiesel will be difficult enough. I will however try to create my own setup to *brew* biodiesel from waste vegetable oil. Not sure when that will happen ;) Thanks! Jim/ > Jim, > > SVO = Straight Vegetable Oil = Veggie Oil > > SVO does not equal BioDiesel. > > BioDiesel is created from SVO that is run through a chemical process. I don't know if BioDiesel has the same gelling problems as SVO....you may be able to run it straight...whereas with SVO, you would have problems in cold weather, without making heater mods and such. > > R, > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jim Hoffman > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 1:18 PM > To: diesel-benz list > Subject: Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle > > > Dan, > > You are correct. However, if you noticed my P.S. I *don't want* > to blend ANY dino diesel. If biodiesel is supposed to have more > energy, better lubricating properties, less pollution, etc., I want > to run *straight* biodiesel. There *has* to be a way to minimize > the gelling without using dinodiesel... That is my quest ;) > > Jim/ > > > > Well, I'm going to stay away from SVO... To much monkeyin' around > > > with heaters, etc. > > > > You can blend No 2 diesel and Veggie oil, lower the gel point of the SVO > > this way, and if you get the veggie oil for free or very cheap (filter it > > before blending if at all possible, and carry extra fuel filters just in > > case), then you are coming out ahead if you don't count the time involved. > > > > Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:30:40 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: RE: [db] biodiesel in seattle Scott, Now THIS is cool! Thank you very much! I've already learned, through a series of experiments that the conventional anti-gell formula for dino diesel won't work for biodiesel. It helps a *small* amount but not like it does on the dinodiesel. So this is valuable information! Thanks again! Jim/ > Jim, > > Found the following web-site, which seems to have some good ideas for you: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html > > R, > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > scott_haaland-at-agilent.com > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 1:39 PM > To: jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: [db] biodiesel in seattle > > > Jim, > > SVO = Straight Vegetable Oil = Veggie Oil > > SVO does not equal BioDiesel. > > BioDiesel is created from SVO that is run through a chemical process. I don't > know if BioDiesel has the same gelling problems as SVO....you may be able to > run it straight...whereas with SVO, you would have problems in cold weather, > without making heater mods and such. > > R, > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jim Hoffman > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 1:18 PM > To: diesel-benz list > Subject: Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle > > > Dan, > > You are correct. However, if you noticed my P.S. I *don't want* > to blend ANY dino diesel. If biodiesel is supposed to have more > energy, better lubricating properties, less pollution, etc., I want > to run *straight* biodiesel. There *has* to be a way to minimize > the gelling without using dinodiesel... That is my quest ;) > > Jim/ > > > > Well, I'm going to stay away from SVO... To much monkeyin' around > > > with heaters, etc. > > > > You can blend No 2 diesel and Veggie oil, lower the gel point of the SVO > > this way, and if you get the veggie oil for free or very cheap (filter it > > before blending if at all possible, and carry extra fuel filters just in > > case), then you are coming out ahead if you don't count the time involved. > > > > Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:32:33 +0000 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle "in this climate" ? Where are you Jim? I've been looking at this option too, am in Ireland so we don't exactly have a tropical climate here ;-) I like the SVO idea... run a couple of coolant hoses back around the veggie oil tank to warm it before switching over and I don't see any probs... (suppose you could put in a temp sensor to a guage on the dash/in the glovebox to tell you when it's good to go... ), just remembering to switch back a mile from home would be the only prob ;-) Steve On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:26:16 -0500, Jim Hoffman wrote: > Hi Scott, > > Yes, I am completely aware of the vast differences. *I* was talking > about true biodiesel, not SVO. I think the confusion came about > because the original post's subject says biodiesel but talked about > SVO ;) > > Anyway, SVO in this climate would not work. Biodiesel will be > difficult enough. I will however try to create my own setup to > *brew* biodiesel from waste vegetable oil. Not sure when that will > happen ;) > > Thanks! > > Jim/ > > > Jim, > > > > SVO = Straight Vegetable Oil = Veggie Oil > > > > SVO does not equal BioDiesel. > > > > BioDiesel is created from SVO that is run through a chemical process. > I don't know if BioDiesel has the same gelling problems as SVO....you > may be able to run it straight...whereas with SVO, you would have > problems in cold weather, without making heater mods and such. > > > > R, > > Scott > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jim Hoffman > > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 1:18 PM > > To: diesel-benz list > > Subject: Re: [db] biodiesel in seattle > > > > > > Dan, > > > > You are correct. However, if you noticed my P.S. I *don't want* > > to blend ANY dino diesel. If biodiesel is supposed to have more > > energy, better lubricating properties, less pollution, etc., I want > > to run *straight* biodiesel. There *has* to be a way to minimize > > the gelling without using dinodiesel... That is my quest ;) > > > > Jim/ > > > > > > Well, I'm going to stay away from SVO... To much monkeyin' around > > > > with heaters, etc. > > > > > > You can blend No 2 diesel and Veggie oil, lower the gel point of the > SVO > > > this way, and if you get the veggie oil for free or very cheap > (filter it > > > before blending if at all possible, and carry extra fuel filters > just in > > > case), then you are coming out ahead if you don't count the time > involved. > > > > > > Dan ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1771 **********************************