Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1899 From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:59:28 +0000 To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net diesel-benz-digest Monday, July 25 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1899 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] fluid in brake booster Re: [db] fluid in brake booster Re: [db] fluid in brake booster RE: [db] fluid in brake booster Re: [db] wagoneers.com back on line... almost Re: [db] fluid in brake booster RE: [db] fluid in brake booster Re: [db] fluid in brake booster Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:25:46 -0400 From: "Philip Tigue" Subject: [db] fluid in brake booster I took off my old master cylinder and replaced it. I noticed fluid inside the brake booster. I thought maybe it was supposed to be there so I left it. the manual doesn't mention anything about fluid so I am wondering if I should take off the master cylinder again and remove the fluid? I am still not done bleeding the brake lines, I am having trouble with that and I think it is because I cannot get fluid into both chambers, how does it work? I cannot get any pressure on the brake pedel also. thanks, Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:47:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Guthrie Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster Phil, It might help if you included the year and model of what car your brake booster is attached to. Jan 1995 E300D 1987 300TD 1985 300TD pos - -----Original Message----- From: Philip Tigue Sent: Jul 24, 2005 10:25 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] fluid in brake booster I took off my old master cylinder and replaced it. I noticed fluid inside the brake booster. I thought maybe it was supposed to be there so I left it. the manual doesn't mention anything about fluid so I am wondering if I should take off the master cylinder again and remove the fluid? I am still not done bleeding the brake lines, I am having trouble with that and I think it is because I cannot get fluid into both chambers, how does it work? I cannot get any pressure on the brake pedel also. thanks, Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:41:27 -0400 From: "Philip Tigue" Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster the car is a 1980 300TD MB. - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jan Guthrie Reply-To: Jan Guthrie To: Philip Tigue CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster Phil, It might help if you included the year and model of what car your brake booster is attached to. Jan 1995 E300D 1987 300TD 1985 300TD pos - -----Original Message----- From: Philip Tigue Sent: Jul 24, 2005 10:25 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] fluid in brake booster I took off my old master cylinder and replaced it. I noticed fluid inside the brake booster. I thought maybe it was supposed to be there so I left it. the manual doesn't mention anything about fluid so I am wondering if I should take off the master cylinder again and remove the fluid? I am still not done bleeding the brake lines, I am having trouble with that and I think it is because I cannot get fluid into both chambers, how does it work? I cannot get any pressure on the brake pedel also. thanks, Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:06:21 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] fluid in brake booster Vacuum leaks can pull brake fluid into the brake booster, a place where it is not supposed to go. As to the bleeding, I know a few regulars here have discussed "bench bleeding" master cylinders. That sounds like a technique to get fluid into both circuits. So your bleeding challenge may not be very unique, and someone may be able to suggest a good method to overcome it. Unfortunately, that someone will not be me. ;-) Since you really should pull that cylinder again to get the fluid out of the booster, perhaps someone in the know can discuss how to bench bleed it. And find and fix your vacuum leak. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 190K >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Philip Tigue >> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 12:41 PM >> To: jan-at-buy-a-boat.com >> Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster >> >> >> the car is a 1980 300TD MB. >> >> ----Original Message Follows---- >> From: Jan Guthrie >> Reply-To: Jan Guthrie >> To: Philip Tigue >> CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster >> >> Phil, >> It might help if you included the year and model of what car your brake >> booster is attached to. >> >> Jan >> 1995 E300D >> 1987 300TD >> 1985 300TD >> pos >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Philip Tigue >> Sent: Jul 24, 2005 10:25 AM >> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> Subject: [db] fluid in brake booster >> >> I took off my old master cylinder and replaced it. I noticed fluid inside >> the brake booster. I thought maybe it was supposed to be there so I left >> it. the manual doesn't mention anything about fluid so I am wondering if >> I should take off the master cylinder again and remove the fluid? >> >> I am still not done bleeding the brake lines, I am having trouble with >> that and I think it is because I cannot get fluid into both chambers, how >> does it work? I cannot get any pressure on the brake pedel also. >> >> thanks, >> >> Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:24:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] wagoneers.com back on line... almost installed sendmail and getting tons of spam again, which means it's working... next item is spamassassin or something like it. :) john On Sun, 24 Jul 2005, john meister wrote: >> -->I rebuilt wagoneers.com, new hardware, SuSE Linux... >> --> >> -->have the web server up using Apache2. >> -->have ssh working... >> --> >> -->but I can't seem to get mail working. Originally when the system >> -->was setup there were some DNS issues. But those shouldn't be >> -->impacted by the server swap, used the same name, same IP. >> --> >> -->anyone familar with postfix on Linux? I could use a little help off list... >> --> >> -->Turns out the Sun box didn't die, it hung on fsck on reboot... haven't >> -->looked at the logs to figure out why it dropped out of service though... >> --> >> --> >> -->thanx, >> -->john >> --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:14:06 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster Phil and Alec: I strongly suspect the vacuum pump on this car. The fluid in the booster may be motor oil instead of brake fluid. This can be checked out by putting an in-line fuel filter in the vacuum line circuit. A dark stain will confirm this. The vacuum pump will still work sort of with the membrane ripped a bit, but oil will migrate through the vacuum line into the booster. The lack of brakes points to the booster being ruined by the fluid it has sucked in. I have a '79 TD which exhibited the same symptoms. I also thought brake fluid at first, but testing confirmed the bad booster and vacuum pump. A replaced booster, along with the check-valve and hose; and a rebuild of the vacuum pump cured all. Vacuum tester required to check the booster and check-valve. Greg Alec Cordova wrote: Vacuum leaks can pull brake fluid into the brake booster, a place where it is not supposed to go. As to the bleeding, I know a few regulars here have discussed "bench bleeding" master cylinders. That sounds like a technique to get fluid into both circuits. So your bleeding challenge may not be very unique, and someone may be able to suggest a good method to overcome it. Unfortunately, that someone will not be me. ;-) Since you really should pull that cylinder again to get the fluid out of the booster, perhaps someone in the know can discuss how to bench bleed it. And find and fix your vacuum leak. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 190K -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [ mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net ]On Behalf Of Philip Tigue Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 12:41 PM To: jan-at-buy-a-boat.com Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster the car is a 1980 300TD MB. ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jan Guthrie Reply-To: Jan Guthrie To: Philip Tigue CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster Phil, It might help if you included the year and model of what car your brake booster is attached to. Jan 1995 E300D 1987 300TD 1985 300TD pos -----Original Message----- From: Philip Tigue Sent: Jul 24, 2005 10:25 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: [db] fluid in brake booster I took off my old master cylinder and replaced it. I noticed fluid inside the brake booster. I thought maybe it was supposed to be there so I left it. the manual doesn't mention anything about fluid so I am wondering if I should take off the master cylinder again and remove the fluid? I am still not done bleeding the brake lines, I am having trouble with that and I think it is because I cannot get fluid into both chambers, how does it work? I cannot get any pressure on the brake pedel also. thanks, Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:35:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] fluid in brake booster to bench bleed a new booster you place it in a vise and push the piston in... many, many times... until you can't push it any more... (unless you use method #2, in which case you wait until you don't see bubbles. :) there are two methods to get the air out and build up pressure: 1) plug up the outlets with a plastic or brass plug 2) connect lines that empty back into the reservoir most new boosters come with the plastic plugs... the drawback to this is they leak... I end up putting the plugs in the vise so they don't become projectiles. Years ago they used to include the lines to dump back into the booster. john On Sun, 24 Jul 2005, Alec Cordova wrote: >>-->Vacuum leaks can pull brake fluid into the brake booster, a place where it >>-->is not supposed to go. >>--> >>-->As to the bleeding, I know a few regulars here have discussed "bench >>-->bleeding" master cylinders. That sounds like a technique to get fluid into >>-->both circuits. So your bleeding challenge may not be very unique, and >>-->someone may be able to suggest a good method to overcome it. Unfortunately, >>-->that someone will not be me. ;-) >>--> >>-->Since you really should pull that cylinder again to get the fluid out of the >>-->booster, perhaps someone in the know can discuss how to bench bleed it. >>--> >>-->And find and fix your vacuum leak. >>--> >>-->Alec Cordova >>-->Taylor, Texas >>-->89 300CE, 190K >>--> >>-->> -----Original Message----- >>-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Philip Tigue >>-->> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 12:41 PM >>-->> To: jan-at-buy-a-boat.com >>-->> Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>-->> Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> the car is a 1980 300TD MB. >>-->> >>-->> ----Original Message Follows---- >>-->> From: Jan Guthrie >>-->> Reply-To: Jan Guthrie >>-->> To: Philip Tigue >>-->> CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>-->> Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster >>-->> >>-->> Phil, >>-->> It might help if you included the year and model of what car your brake >>-->> booster is attached to. >>-->> >>-->> Jan >>-->> 1995 E300D >>-->> 1987 300TD >>-->> 1985 300TD >>-->> pos >>-->> >>-->> -----Original Message----- >>-->> From: Philip Tigue >>-->> Sent: Jul 24, 2005 10:25 AM >>-->> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>-->> Subject: [db] fluid in brake booster >>-->> >>-->> I took off my old master cylinder and replaced it. I noticed fluid inside >>-->> the brake booster. I thought maybe it was supposed to be there so I left >>-->> it. the manual doesn't mention anything about fluid so I am wondering if >>-->> I should take off the master cylinder again and remove the fluid? >>-->> >>-->> I am still not done bleeding the brake lines, I am having trouble with >>-->> that and I think it is because I cannot get fluid into both chambers, how >>-->> does it work? I cannot get any pressure on the brake pedel also. >>-->> >>-->> thanks, >>-->> >>-->> Phil >>--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:56:30 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] fluid in brake booster On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 09:35:22PM -0700, john wrote: >> to bench bleed a new booster you place it in a vise >> and push the piston in... many, many times... until you >> can't push it any more... (unless you use method #2, >> in which case you wait until you don't see bubbles. :) >> >> there are two methods >> to get the air out and build up pressure: >> 1) plug up the outlets with a plastic or brass plug >> 2) connect lines that empty back into the reservoir >> >> most new boosters come with the plastic plugs... the drawback >> to this is they leak... I end up putting the plugs in the vise >> so they don't become projectiles. Years ago they used to include >> the lines to dump back into the booster. John, That really sounds like the bleed procedures for a master cylinder than a brake booster. Then again, the last booster I replaced was on an 84 eagle, and the bleed procedure was "remove booster from car, bolt in booster procured from junkyard for $20" :) K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1899 **********************************