From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Aug 4 17:06:16 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, August 5 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1908 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Diesel: The Engine of the Future? Re: [db] Diesel: The Engine of the Future? RE: [db] 300D with missing ignition switch Re: [db] Diesel: The Engine of the Future? (and a howdy from Tokyo) [db] Jeeps... Re: [db] Diesel: The Engine of the Future? (and a howdy from Tokyo) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 13:52:08 US/Eastern From: mfrank-at-westnet.com Subject: Re: [db] Diesel: The Engine of the Future? What good does it do me? New York has deferred to California on emissions related matters, and California chooses not to consider Diesel. I'll be driving my '87 until it rusts away. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 12:58:07 -0500 From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] Diesel: The Engine of the Future? Quoting chuck goolsbee : > Editorial of this month's "Winding Road" magazine: > http://www.windingroad.com/ > (A great magazine BTW... I love it.) > > > The Engine of the Future? > After some investigation, I think I can safely say that most diesels > are really good mid-range engines. Consider the estimated torque > figures at 3000 rpm for high-performance gasoline engines: > Ferrari F430 275 lb-ft > BMW M5 (V-10) 305 lb-ft > Porsche Carrera S 250 lb-ft > Now consider the torque numbers of a few diesels: > Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI 350 lb-ft > Mercedes-Benz SL400 CDI 500 lb-ft > BMW 535d 375 lb-ft > > Thoughts? > > > -- > --chuck goolsbee > 02 Jetta TDi (but also looking for a 300SD or SDL) > arlington, wa, usa > > Mmmm. SL400CDI. I'm already crazy in love with the new SL. Add in that beast of a diesel V8, and now I not only have to find a gazillion bucks to buy a new SL, I need a little more so I can move to Europe and buy a diesel version. It's still frustrating to me that even the motoring press seem to just now be glimpsing the knowledge that a diesel's torque makes for a wonderful daily driver, even for those of us that like to go fast. How much further behind must the general public be? I need people and companies and governments to figure this out soon, so we can get lots of good diesels over here soon, so they can become affordable used vehicles for me. ;-) Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 14:25:31 -0500 From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: RE: [db] 300D with missing ignition switch Thanks for the response guys. The seller is going to give it a try to see if he can start the car. I would try it myself, but the car is 200 miles away from me. Allen >From: "Potter, Tom E" >To: "Allen Zylstra" >Subject: RE: [db] 300D with missing ignition switch >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:07:54 -0500 > >Clip a wire on the small terminal on the starter solenoid and touch the >other end to the battery positive post. This will turn the engine. You >may have to pull the vacuum line off the shutdown on the injection pump; >I'm not sure. > >Thomas E. Potter >Telephone: (713) 215-2877 >Fax: (713) 215-2551 >Mobile: (832) 794-0536 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Allen Zylstra >Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:22 PM >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: [db] 300D with missing ignition switch > > >Hi, I found a 300D on ebay that is close to me. The seller has offered >it to me for a reasonable price. The only problem is that he bought it >with missing ignition switch and does not know if it runs. Is there a >way to "hotwire" this car. I may be able to pass the info along to him >so that he can try and start it for me. It is this one. >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=799 >0644586&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT >Any help would be appreciated. Allen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 16:11:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Diesel: The Engine of the Future? (and a howdy from Tokyo) excellent article (below), and something us Diesel drivers know all about. :) thanx chuck! (Passing this along to a few friends) It's interesting to note that the 320CDI outperforms it's gas counterpart! I can hardly wait to get back to the states to drive one of my Diesels... have been using sandal power this week here in Tokyo. Hot and muggy. Mid 80's (temp on the TV says 36C) Walked about 4 miles last night. One of the developers from the team and I took the subway to another area and walked back. I took about 200 pictures... :) It's Friday morning, my server support work (Solaris and Linux) is complete and I'm going to find out if the full size Jeep Cherokee still exists 30 minutes from here. http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/japanese-cherokee/ If it doesn't I'll be working on pictures of Tokyo and placing them at: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/Tokyo-2005/ If it is still there I'll be off on a short adventure, otherwise I'll probably be working on my servers in Seattle on line. :) Have been watching for Mercedes Diesels, haven't seen any. Have seen a couple WJs (photographed one from my room on the 31st floor of the Keio Plaza Hotel). Seen two or three XJ (Cherokees). Not seen any Full Size Jeeps (SJ model) at all... yet... will call the shop in Nakagawara when they open at 10am, still 2 hrs away... Have seen two TJs, a few of the big Buick station wagons, a few Chevy Astro type vans, a few Navigators, a Hummer2, a few Cadillacs and a whole lot of really small compact cars and trucks that look pretty cool. Oh yeah, one of the conference attendees pointed at that the hotel west of ours and few blocks down was the one in the movie lost in translation, which, btw, is a real yawner... wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy... btw, anyone want to buy a slightly used DVD? It's only been viewed one time... ;) Hope all is well with you, and now, our feature presentation, the Engine of the Future... :) john meister live from Tokyo - Friday 8am (4pm Thursday Seattle time. :) - ----------------------------------------- On Thu, 4 Aug 2005, chuck goolsbee wrote: Editorial of this month's "Winding Road" magazine: http://www.windingroad.com/ (A great magazine BTW... I love it.) The Engine of the Future? I recently had the opportunity to drive eight sports cars in the 400- to 600-hp range, in many cases over quite long distances. I noticed during hundreds of miles, both behind the wheel and riding shotgun observing other journalists, that the upper limits of the rev range are almost never used in these cars. Of course, that's partially because, for most of these cars, second gear at redline will get you way above a U.S. speed limit. I think there is a deeper significance to this observation, though. Without fail, my colleagues and fellow members of the motoring press would jump out of each of these cars and make some witty remark about the joys of high-powered sports cars, but when we say things like this, we're literally wrong. We love these cars because you can get into the throttle at 2800 rpm and find a tremendous shove in the back as you wind out to 5000 rpm or so. These cars feel relatively relaxed, and you can do this all day long without losing your license. With peak power at 7500 or 8500 rpm, the horsepower spec isn't really the key to our fondness for the way these cars accelerate. We love these cars on the street because they have great mid-range punch. I also had a chance to drive our test Jetta TDI while it was floating around WR World Headquarters. Reflecting on my experience with today's supercars, I began to wonder why I liked the Jetta so much despite its meager 100 hp. It dawned on me that the Jetta had decent mid-range, part-throttle acceleration. No, it isn't really that strong, but the Jetta does a little of what supercars do. It just gets there in a very different way. After some investigation, I think I can safely say that most diesels are really good mid-range engines. Consider the estimated torque figures at 3000 rpm for high-performance gasoline engines: Ferrari F430 275 lb-ft BMW M5 (V-10) 305 lb-ft Porsche Carrera S 250 lb-ft Now consider the torque numbers of a few diesels: Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI 350 lb-ft Mercedes-Benz SL400 CDI 500 lb-ft BMW 535d 375 lb-ft Note that the diesels make a lot more torque, but are available in cars at more affordable prices. Consider, then, that these diesel engines will get in the range of 50-percent better gas mileage, all while delivering substantially lower carbon dioxide emissions (about 20-percent lower). Carbon dioxide is the greenhouse gas associated with global warming. While carbon dioxide is unregulated in the United States, concern about global warming, along with the torque advantages of diesels as shown above, have to make you think that diesels might be the performance engine of the future. Yes, the performance engine. Diesels have gotten a rather bad rap for emissions, which mostly stems from a lack of current information. In fact, diesels have several inherent emissions advantages over gasoline engines, including lower hydrocarbon and lower carbon monoxide emissions, to add to their carbon dioxide advantage. There is work to be done on emissions of nitrous oxide and particulates, where diesels have disadvantages. But Europe is making a bet that diesels are the green way to go, and these problems will almost certainly be solved. Given this, the general view is that Americans won't accept diesels because of bad memories about noisy, smoky diesels of the past. I find this view a bit insulting, not to mention logically flawed. It is a bit like saying, circa 1980, that Americans won't accept personal computers because of bad memories about the size and heat generated by mainframes. Americans, as much as any other group, have shown great flexibility in adopting new technologies when those technologies deliver real value. But if all the interesting diesel engines stay in Europe, and if manufacturers bury their dullest diesels in mundane cars, then, sure, Americans will stay away (actually, they'll be over at the Toyota/Lexus store buying hybrid SUVs). Mercedes has shown that it might be willing to break the mold on this one, with the announcement of the SLK320 CDI and the SL400 CDI. That is to say, diesel sports cars. That's a future I can sign up for. Bill Campbell Editor, Winding Road editor-at-windingroad.com Thoughts? - -- - --chuck goolsbee 02 Jetta TDi (but also looking for a 300SD or SDL) arlington, wa, usa ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 19:58:38 +0000 From: "Renaud (Ron) Olgiati" Subject: [db] Jeeps... I have by accident got my grubby paws on a catalogue of bits and bobs for Jeeps (4WheelDrive Hardware), and had a good look through. One thought: Given the number of things that are offered to improve the Jeep's appearance, comfort, engine power, gear shifting, ground clearance, road holding, carrying capacity, corrosion resistance, braking ability, engine cooling, lighting system, etc. one cannot help thinking that the Jeep, as produced, must be a real P.O.S. ! No ? Ron, running for cover on the banks of the Paraguay River. - -- About the most originality that any writer can hope to achieve honestly is to steal with good judgment. -- Josh Billings -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 20:07:18 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Diesel: The Engine of the Future? (and a howdy from Tokyo) Hello John & all : I envy your visit to Tokyo, has been almost 15 years since I was last there and even then it was the whiz bang capital of the planet for electronics and IBC's (Itty Bitty Cars). To counter your travels, I just got back from a full day of playing with the new GM militarized Silverado with the 6.6L diesel engine at the Milford proving grounds. Took it off road, over the test track and lastly, over the "Pontiac" test paved section where they have offset slabs of concrete that shake your spine to bits and jam the body (drivers and passengers that is) left to right at what feels like 5 G's (of course we were going 20MPH in the commercial unit and 40 in the Military one :-) ). I am duly impressed with that diesel, nothing stops that truck, 360 HP at 3000 RPM and near 600 ft lb of torque at 1700 RPM. What most impressed me was the pre-injection mode for the CRD injection system, the engine with the hood open and the head in the compartment barely sounds like a diesel at all, only the faintest, barely noticeable clatter. The techs said that there are two injections of diesel per compression cycle, first a small one then the rest of the fuel charge. Amazing result. Has 4 valves per cylinder. Also warned us never, never to play with the fuel system, it works at between 8000 and 23000 psi, a pinhole leak can cut off your fingers or worse. I was not there to get mileage figures (sorry), just to beat the heck out of it and learn how it compares to a stock vehicle and the HUMVEE. All told a great "day out" of the office. Wish I could afford one in the driveway (sigh!). Will have to wait a long while for the used market then spend about $10K on that off road modification package or a close facsimilie. Oh well, one can dream. Cheers and godspeed back to the good ole USA. Look forward to those photos. Edward john wrote: excellent article (below), and something us Diesel drivers know all about. :) thanx chuck! (Passing this along to a few friends) It's interesting to note that the 320CDI outperforms it's gas counterpart! I can hardly wait to get back to the states to drive one of my Diesels... have been using sandal power this week here in Tokyo. Hot and muggy. Mid 80's (temp on the TV says 36C) Walked about 4 miles last night. One of the developers from the team and I took the subway to another area and walked back. I took about 200 pictures... :) It's Friday morning, my server support work (Solaris and Linux) is complete and I'm going to find out if the full size Jeep Cherokee still exists 30 minutes from here. http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/japanese-cherokee/ If it doesn't I'll be working on pictures of Tokyo and placing them at: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/Tokyo-2005/ If it is still there I'll be off on a short adventure, otherwise I'll probably be working on my servers in Seattle on line. :) Have been watching for Mercedes Diesels, haven't seen any. Have seen a couple WJs (photographed one from my room on the 31st floor of the Keio Plaza Hotel). Seen two or three XJ (Cherokees). Not seen any Full Size Jeeps (SJ model) at all... yet... will call the shop in Nakagawara when they open at 10am, still 2 hrs away... Have seen two TJs, a few of the big Buick station wagons, a few Chevy Astro type vans, a few Navigators, a Hummer2, a few Cadillacs and a whole lot of really small compact cars and trucks that look pretty cool. Oh yeah, one of the conference attendees pointed at that the hotel west of ours and few blocks down was the one in the movie lost in translation, which, btw, is a real yawner... wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy... btw, anyone want to buy a slightly used DVD? It's only been viewed one time... ;) Hope all is well with you, and now, our feature presentation, the Engine of the Future... :) john meister live from Tokyo - Friday 8am (4pm Thursday Seattle time. :) - ----------------------------------------- On Thu, 4 Aug 2005, chuck goolsbee wrote: Editorial of this month's "Winding Road" magazine: http://www.windingroad.com/ (A great magazine BTW... I love it.) The Engine of the Future? I recently had the opportunity to drive eight sports cars in the 400- to 600-hp range, in many cases over quite long distances. I noticed during hundreds of miles, both behind the wheel and riding shotgun observing other journalists, that the upper limits of the rev range are almost never used in these cars. Of course, that's partially because, for most of these cars, second gear at redline will get you way above a U.S. speed limit. I think there is a deeper significance to this observation, though. Without fail, my colleagues and fellow members of the motoring press would jump out of each of these cars and make some witty remark about the joys of high-powered sports cars, but when we say things like this, we're literally wrong. We love these cars because you can get into the throttle at 2800 rpm and find a tremendous shove in the back as you wind out to 5000 rpm or so. These cars feel relatively relaxed, and you can do this all day long without losing your license. With peak power at 7500 or 8500 rpm, the horsepower spec isn't really the key to our fondness for the way these cars accelerate. We love these cars on the street because they have great mid-range punch. I also had a chance to drive our test Jetta TDI while it was floating around WR World Headquarters. Reflecting on my experience with today's supercars, I began to wonder why I liked the Jetta so much despite its meager 100 hp. It dawned on me that the Jetta had decent mid-range, part-throttle acceleration. No, it isn't really that strong, but the Jetta does a little of what supercars do. It just gets there in a very different way. After some investigation, I think I can safely say that most diesels are really good mid-range engines. Consider the estimated torque figures at 3000 rpm for high-performance gasoline engines: Ferrari F430 275 lb-ft BMW M5 (V-10) 305 lb-ft Porsche Carrera S 250 lb-ft Now consider the torque numbers of a few diesels: Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI 350 lb-ft Mercedes-Benz SL400 CDI 500 lb-ft BMW 535d 375 lb-ft Note that the diesels make a lot more torque, but are available in cars at more affordable prices. Consider, then, that these diesel engines will get in the range of 50-percent better gas mileage, all while delivering substantially lower carbon dioxide emissions (about 20-percent lower). Carbon dioxide is the greenhouse gas associated with global warming. While carbon dioxide is unregulated in the United States, concern about global warming, along with the torque advantages of diesels as shown above, have to make you think that diesels might be the performance engine of the future. Yes, the performance engine. Diesels have gotten a rather bad rap for emissions, which mostly stems from a lack of current information. In fact, diesels have several inherent emissions advantages over gasoline engines, including lower hydrocarbon and lower carbon monoxide emissions, to add to their carbon dioxide advantage. There is work to be done on emissions of nitrous oxide and particulates, where diesels have disadvantages. But Europe is making a bet that diesels are the green way to go, and these problems will almost certainly be solved. Given this, the general view is that Americans won't accept diesels because of bad memories about noisy, smoky diesels of the past. I find this view a bit insulting, not to mention logically flawed. It is a bit like saying, circa 1980, that Americans won't accept personal computers because of bad memories about the size and heat generated by mainframes. Americans, as much as any other group, have shown great flexibility in adopting new technologies when those technologies deliver real value. But if all the interesting diesel engines stay in Europe, and if manufacturers bury their dullest diesels in mundane cars, then, sure, Americans will stay away (actually, they'll be over at the Toyota/Lexus store buying hybrid SUVs). Mercedes has shown that it might be willing to break the mold on this one, with the announcement of the SLK320 CDI and the SL400 CDI. That is to say, diesel sports cars. That's a future I can sign up for. Bill Campbell Editor, Winding Road editor-at-windingroad.com Thoughts? ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1908 **********************************