From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Aug 11 08:39:48 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, August 11 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1915 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] RE: veggie oil use Re: [db] One VERY SICK Kitty! (Not for the faint of heart.....) Re: [db] One VERY SICK Kitty! (Not for the faint of heart.....) [db] it lives!!! Re: [db] Rough idle, smokes some. RE: [db] RE: veggie oil use Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:07:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] RE: veggie oil use oil is measured by cetane rating. gasoline is measured by octane. gasoline is highly volatile, and thin/diluted. oil is thicker and not spark ignitable because it doesn't have the volatile element, there are fumes but not easily ignited. the energy content in the oils is higher because it's slower burning. the idea of the gasoline is to dilute the oil mixture and lower it's pour point as done in the winter time. running a diesel engine on pure gasoline would quickly overheat it and melt it down as the energy is released quicker than the heat energy can be transferred into useful forces, builds up in the cylinder and either overheats the engine or melts a hole in the piston... either way, it's not good. pinging would probably not be noticeable or an issue... of course the max ratio of gas to Diesel is about 1 gallon to 20 for cold weather. Anything more than that and you're asking for trouble. ;) john On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: >-->Hmm, what is the octane rating of veggie oil vs. diesel vs. unleaded? I would think unleaded is less...so at some point, the diesel would ping, esp if turbocharged... Rambling here... >--> >-->- Landon >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john >-->Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:38 PM >-->To: Kevin >-->Cc: Allen Zylstra; full size jeep list; diesel-benz list >-->Subject: fsj: veggie oil use >--> >--> >-->I'm not having any trouble blending pump Diesel with my filtered waste veggie oil. >--> >-->I run about 5 gallons in my '91 300D every other tank. My Jimmy has a 31 gallon >-->tank, I dumped 10 gallons in and am getting ready to just pump straight into >-->the massive tank and top it off... Diesel prices are over $2.79 here... if it >-->doesn't start, well... I'll just take another car. ;) >--> >-->My J10 has dual tanks, so I'll be doing the switching over at start/stop on it. >-->Not sure I want to mess with a dual tank setup on the Jimmy. I'm also thinking >-->that blending in a gallon or two of regular unleaded might help thin the fuel >-->a bit and keep it flowing... >--> >-->john >--> >-->On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Kevin wrote: >-->>-->> Is anyone here running vegetable with a conversion system. I am espicially >-->>-->> interested in homebuilt conversions. >-->>--> >-->>-->Most people are blending. There was a dealer-installable second tank for >-->>-->123 sedans which might make your efforts a little easier if you wanted to >-->>-->run straight vegetable oil while starting on diesel. >-->>-->K >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:11:29 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] One VERY SICK Kitty! (Not for the faint of heart.....) Don't assume that there is supposed to be a gasket in some places on the Benz. They are known for using perfectly mated machined surfaces and just some varnishy type sealant! Check the manual to be certain. Edward Jason R Bassett wrote: >Hoo boy. I finally got the crankcase off. Took all day because I used a >3/16" allen wrench on the bolts for awhile, which worked fine on most of >them, but one of the bolts was really stuck and stripped the head. Spent >over two hours trying to get it out because I was too stubborn to go down >to AutoZone and get the damaged bolt extraction tools, which took it out >in about a minute (I had to try twice because it was in a tight spot.) Of >course, none of that would have been an issue if I had just used the 5mm >Allen (the right one) in the first place. (But I didn't have that until >today either! The people at AutoZone are beginning to recognize me!) > >Having gone this far, I guess I should take the piston out as a victory >move, but I somehow feel less than victorious. I noticed something else >this morning....not only are the walls scored, but there is erosion in >the cylinder wall by where the hole was burned in the piston. At the time >I thought, "Oh well, just another compression leak on an already >destined-to-be-leaky cylinder." But about an hour ago it dawned on me >that the flame shooting down the wall past a major leak was what caused >the erosion in the first place, and what would start as a minor >compression leak would become a major one (and probably quickly) from the >burnthrough. It would probably ruin the new piston just like the old one, >and soon. And then I'd be right back where I started. > >So what am I saying? Well, if this was a 300D, I'd consider pulling the >piston and changing a few things and making it a 240D until I could get a >rebuilt motor. However, considering the speed of a 240D, a 180D does not >sound particularly attractive. (Though I must admit that John's 620D >does....assuming that it's just the Jimmy's 6.2 and tranny with no >transfer case shoved into the 123 chassis.....) So this motor is junk to >me, bottom line. There is nothing that I can do with it. > >Looks like Jim is going to get rid of his 240D that he couldn't >move....... > >Also, while I'm thinking of it, that motor HAS been fiddled with. When I >took the differential apart shortly after I got it, there was no >gasket.....it was just more or less glued together with some varnishy >stuff. I didn't think much of it. (That diff, BTW, is now full of Lucas >Oil Stabilizer....great stuff......) However, while there was a gasket >between the upper and lower oil pan, there was NO GASKET between the >upper oil pan (crankcase) and the block! Just the varnishy stuff. >Somebody messed with it for sure! I wondered how there could be so little >ridge on a car with around 300k on it..........somebody probably bored it >over, and didn't do it right...... > >Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:11:03 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] One VERY SICK Kitty! (Not for the faint of heart.....) Dont asume that there is supposed to be a gasket in some places on the Benz. They are known for using perfectly mated machined surfaces and just some varnishy type sealant! Check the manual to be certain. Edward Jason R Bassett wrote: >Hoo boy. I finally got the crankcase off. Took all day because I used a >3/16" allen wrench on the bolts for awhile, which worked fine on most of >them, but one of the bolts was really stuck and stripped the head. Spent >over two hours trying to get it out because I was too stubborn to go down >to AutoZone and get the damaged bolt extraction tools, which took it out >in about a minute (I had to try twice because it was in a tight spot.) Of >course, none of that would have been an issue if I had just used the 5mm >Allen (the right one) in the first place. (But I didn't have that until >today either! The people at AutoZone are beginning to recognize me!) > >Having gone this far, I guess I should take the piston out as a victory >move, but I somehow feel less than victorious. I noticed something else >this morning....not only are the walls scored, but there is erosion in >the cylinder wall by where the hole was burned in the piston. At the time >I thought, "Oh well, just another compression leak on an already >destined-to-be-leaky cylinder." But about an hour ago it dawned on me >that the flame shooting down the wall past a major leak was what caused >the erosion in the first place, and what would start as a minor >compression leak would become a major one (and probably quickly) from the >burnthrough. It would probably ruin the new piston just like the old one, >and soon. And then I'd be right back where I started. > >So what am I saying? Well, if this was a 300D, I'd consider pulling the >piston and changing a few things and making it a 240D until I could get a >rebuilt motor. However, considering the speed of a 240D, a 180D does not >sound particularly attractive. (Though I must admit that John's 620D >does....assuming that it's just the Jimmy's 6.2 and tranny with no >transfer case shoved into the 123 chassis.....) So this motor is junk to >me, bottom line. There is nothing that I can do with it. > >Looks like Jim is going to get rid of his 240D that he couldn't >move....... > >Also, while I'm thinking of it, that motor HAS been fiddled with. When I >took the differential apart shortly after I got it, there was no >gasket.....it was just more or less glued together with some varnishy >stuff. I didn't think much of it. (That diff, BTW, is now full of Lucas >Oil Stabilizer....great stuff......) However, while there was a gasket >between the upper and lower oil pan, there was NO GASKET between the >upper oil pan (crankcase) and the block! Just the varnishy stuff. >Somebody messed with it for sure! I wondered how there could be so little >ridge on a car with around 300k on it..........somebody probably bored it >over, and didn't do it right...... > >Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:18:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] it lives!!! Nick came over on his way home from work, we borrowed the battery out of his 240d, and voila, the '80 240D lit right off... brakes are a little soft, windshield is bad, paint is bad, body is bad, but it started and appeared to shift fine... nick drove it, since he drives one every day that was the best test possible. :) Needs a throttle return spring too... Not sure what else will fail on it, but it is alive... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:27:51 -0500 From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: Re: [db] Rough idle, smokes some. Thanks for the info on the fuses. They are the external element type. I notice a bit of corrosion on a couple of them so I may clean the all and check it out further. I do need a new switch for the drivers window now since the previous owner broke it. Allen >From: Gene H >To: Allen Zylstra >Subject: Re: [db] Rough idle, smokes some. >Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:57:04 -0700 (PDT) > >Allen, > >Not sure if your car has the stock type fuses with the element on the >outside or the glass tube type. If stock, inspect those fuses >carefully, they have tricked me in the past. > >My driver's window was once stuck so the first thing I did was pull the >fuse...looked fine. Took it to a Benz specialist, he did the same, >also thought it was fine. Drove it by the dealer and the service >writer pulled out the fuse. He pointed out a hairline crack in the >element near one of the pointed ends. It was almost invisible! He >told me he has seen this in the past. Taught me a lesson, now I look >them over very carefully. When in doubt, replace it. > >Gene > >--- Allen Zylstra wrote: > > > I won't worry about the replacing the return lines with bio safe > > hoses then. > > I know I can get the stuff fromt the dealer or online. I ran it > > today and > > revved it up good a few times and it seem to puff and then idle > > alittle > > better. > > > > I am not sure if the engine is warming up properly. The aux fan fuse > > was > > blown and I replace it. The brakes need some attention. They are > > soft > > when the car is cold and then seem to get better after it warms up. I > > have > > not heard any grinding. > > > > Is anyone here running vegetable with a conversion system. I am > > espicially > > interested in homebuilt conversions. > > > > Thanks, Allen > > > >


>From: john > > <john-at-superdawg.wagoneers.com>
>To: > > Allen Zylstra <allenzylstra-at-hotmail.com>
>CC: > > diesel-benz-at-digest.net
>Subject: Re: [db] Rough idle, smokes > > some.
>Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:09:09 -0700 > > (PDT)
>
>On > > Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Allen Zylstra wrote:
>
> > > > -->Thanks for > > all the info. At least I now know what the buttons are > > suppose
> > > > -->to do. There is a set off new pads in the trunk so I will swap > > them. > > Good
> > -->Idea to have the rotors > > turned?
>
>only > > if they're warped, and then I'd replace them... I haven't > > turned
>a > > set of rotors in over 20 years... if it's scored I count that as > > additional
>cooling surface and the brake pad will wear into > > it. > > ;)
>
>I like the power slotted rotors, I've put them on > > everything that needs
>them. helps keep them from > > warping.
>
> > -->I believe the car has sat for > > about 2 > > months and before that didn't see alot
> > -->of miles. > > I did > > find that it looks like the #4 injector is leaking I
> > > > -->believe from the small braided rubber line. These look to be > > in need > > of
> > -->replacement. I have done anything yet to the > > car. I > > have read that if I
> > -->plan to run biodiesel that I > > need to > > go ahead and replace all the rubber
> > -->fuel lines > > with viton > > or similar material.
>
>get the proper fuel return line > > from the > > dealer, it doesn't cost much,
>it works and it'll stop that > > leak. I > > used other stuff and it failed...
>
> > -->This car > > is for > > a veggie conversion project. More of an experiment. I
> > > > -->messed with the window switches and was unable to make the > > drivers > > window
> > -->work by swapping switches. The fuse is > > good > > too.
>
>check the connectors and wiring, with a > > meter...
>
>
> > -->I will need to examine > > the > > steering and suspension, probably while doing the
> > > > -->brakes.
> > -->
> > -->Thanks fo rthe > > help. > > Wil lbe asking more questions since I am not at all
> > > > -->familiar with german cars.
> > > > -->Allen
>
>
>john
> > > > > > >____________________________________________________ >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:38:40 -0500 From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: RE: [db] RE: veggie oil use I am thinking about cold weather use and I also plan to run on as much veggie as possible and not have to pay for diesel even though it is relatively cheap here yet. $2.25/gal. I think that I can built a system fairly easily. Anyone here used the Lubro Moly Diesel Purge before? I have read that is works wonders, but would like to know from someone first hand. I have notice now that the exhaust is more of a grayish/blue. As for the temp, the coolant looks to have been in there for a while and I am guessing the thermostat is stuck open because it warms on the road, but cools down when Idling. The car ran about 30 minutes last night and only got to about 60c. The oil pressure was on the 3. Good news is that the climate control works except A/C. Allen >From: john >To: Tesar Landon-r16884 >CC: "'Kevin'" , "'Allen Zylstra'" , "'full size jeep list'" , "'diesel-benz list'" >Subject: [db] RE: veggie oil use >Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:07:16 -0700 (PDT) > >oil is measured by cetane rating. >gasoline is measured by octane. > >gasoline is highly volatile, and thin/diluted. oil is thicker and >not spark ignitable because it doesn't have the volatile element, there >are fumes but not easily ignited. > >the energy content in the oils is higher because it's slower burning. > >the idea of the gasoline is to dilute the oil mixture and lower it's >pour point as done in the winter time. > >running a diesel engine on pure gasoline would quickly overheat it and >melt it down as the energy is released quicker than the heat energy >can be transferred into useful forces, builds up in the cylinder and >either overheats the engine or melts a hole in the piston... > >either way, it's not good. > >pinging would probably not be noticeable or an issue... of course the >max ratio of gas to Diesel is about 1 gallon to 20 for cold weather. >Anything more than that and you're asking for trouble. ;) > >john > >On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > > >-->Hmm, what is the octane rating of veggie oil vs. diesel vs. unleaded? I would think unleaded is less...so at some point, the diesel would ping, esp if turbocharged... Rambling here... > >--> > >-->- Landon > >--> > >-->-----Original Message----- > >-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john > >-->Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:38 PM > >-->To: Kevin > >-->Cc: Allen Zylstra; full size jeep list; diesel-benz list > >-->Subject: fsj: veggie oil use > >--> > >--> > >-->I'm not having any trouble blending pump Diesel with my filtered waste veggie oil. > >--> > >-->I run about 5 gallons in my '91 300D every other tank. My Jimmy has a 31 gallon > >-->tank, I dumped 10 gallons in and am getting ready to just pump straight into > >-->the massive tank and top it off... Diesel prices are over $2.79 here... if it > >-->doesn't start, well... I'll just take another car. ;) > >--> > >-->My J10 has dual tanks, so I'll be doing the switching over at start/stop on it. > >-->Not sure I want to mess with a dual tank setup on the Jimmy. I'm also thinking > >-->that blending in a gallon or two of regular unleaded might help thin the fuel > >-->a bit and keep it flowing... > >--> > >-->john > >--> > >-->On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Kevin wrote: > >-->>-->> Is anyone here running vegetable with a conversion system. I am espicially > >-->>-->> interested in homebuilt conversions. > >-->>--> > >-->>-->Most people are blending. There was a dealer-installable second tank for > >-->>-->123 sedans which might make your efforts a little easier if you wanted to > >-->>-->run straight vegetable oil while starting on diesel. > >-->>-->K > >--> > >--> ---- > >--> > >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >--> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1915 **********************************