From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Aug 16 22:07:45 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, August 17 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1925 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) Re: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) Re: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d RE: [db] start-up of 1984 300d Re: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) [db] 16 y.o. heating oil...phew! Re: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) Re: [db] warming up my 300d [db] what we learned about veggie oil today... Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 00:19:29 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) Just bought it today.... its the blue one in the top 3 pics on this page : http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4590979&uid=510951 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:29:49 -0700 From: Brian Knowles Subject: Re: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) Stephen Rigley wrote: >Just bought it today.... >its the blue one in the top 3 pics on this page : >http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4590979&uid=510951 > > > Jeez, a 2CV, haven't seen one of those for a while. On the other hand, I've seen two different Morgan 3-wheelers in the last week, a white one and a robins egg blue one. I can't even remember when I saw another one... bk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:56:59 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) ugly duckling? cool. john On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->Just bought it today.... >-->its the blue one in the top 3 pics on this page : >-->http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4590979&uid=510951 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:27:27 -0400 From: Jason R Bassett Subject: Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d > I would suspect it is not firing on all 5 cylinders because > a > glow plug(s) is shot. It will start a bit hard in the summer if this is the case, and very hard to not at all in the winter. Easy to tell then. > Replace all the glow plugs and the glow plug > relay. www.autohausaz.com has a kit that replaces it all. It's easy > to > do. That's totally unnecessary unless you enjoy spending money. The relay either works or doesn't, and you can test the glow plugs by unplugging their harness from the relay, then running an alligator wire from the battery terminal and just touching the tops of the glow plug terminal bolts with it. If it sparks, the plug is OK. If it doesn't, it's burned out. I drove one in northern MI in January, and this test was all that was required. Once in awhile it would not catch on one cylinder, and I would test it to find out which glow plug had died. (By the way, be gentle on the wire connector nut. Ask me how I know this.......) Now somebody will give you a spiel about resistances and timing and the lot. It does not matter at all on these. Why? The glow plugs don't shut off as soon as the light goes out. (I can prove this on mine, and I think yours would be the same.) The light goes out when it thinks that they are hot enough to light off, but the plugs stay on for 30 seconds to a minute after this. Keeps things happy during the cold season of Starteria....... If you wish to reduce (not eliminate) the number of times you have to check glow plugs this winter (keep a spare.....lesson learned the hard way....) you certainly can replace them all, but the relay is simply not necessary. > While you're at it, replace those injectors, adjust the > valves, > and change out your air and fuel filters. VERY good advice. The injectors are the ones I'd let go, if I were going to let one go, but there are good reasons to change those too, if you don't know when it was done last and it is running goofily. As for testing those, there is no good way for a backyard mechanic to do it. Sorry. > I can almost guarantee you, this will make a huge difference > in > the vehicle from start-up to shut down. Yep...... > Oh, and BTW. As soon as oil pressure comes up, your should > be > driving. No reason for it to warm up. Beats me......but I never did..... Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:30:35 -0400 From: Jason R Bassett Subject: Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d > I say do the valves before doing the glow plugs or injectors. The > valves are > supposed to be readjusted every 15,000 miles. I'd say it's much more > likely > that hard or rough starts are caused by valves out of adjustment > than by bad > glow plugs or injectors. And if you have decent wrenches and a > feeler gauge, > the valve adjustment only costs you a new valve cover gasket, so > it's > definitely worth trying just the valve work first. Frankly, I never replaced the valve cover gasket, and those valves were adjusted several times. It leaked a bit, but not enough to comment about. Less than most older fOrds and cHeaVees......it's actually surprisingly durable. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:40:14 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] start-up of 1984 300d Now that's being frugal. ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jason R Bassett > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:31 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d > > > > I say do the valves before doing the glow plugs or injectors. The > > valves are > > supposed to be readjusted every 15,000 miles. I'd say it's much more > > likely > > that hard or rough starts are caused by valves out of adjustment > > than by bad > > glow plugs or injectors. And if you have decent wrenches and a > > feeler gauge, > > the valve adjustment only costs you a new valve cover gasket, so > > it's > > definitely worth trying just the valve work first. > > Frankly, I never replaced the valve cover gasket, and those valves were > adjusted several times. It leaked a bit, but not enough to comment about. > Less than most older fOrds and cHeaVees......it's actually surprisingly > durable. > > Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:02:57 -0500 From: Sam Williams Subject: Re: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) Stephen It's a beauty! Congratulations! Sam On Wed, 2005-08-17 at 00:19 +0100, Stephen Rigley wrote: > Just bought it today.... > its the blue one in the top 3 pics on this page : > http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4590979&uid=510951 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:08:56 -0700 (PDT) From: bree kna Subject: [db] 16 y.o. heating oil...phew! i keep the negative battery cable off the '87 porsche 924s in my garage because i'm afraid (okay, paranoid) of electrical / gas / other fires...storing heating oil in plastic drums for 16 years would have had me in the madhouse after 16 days. i really must learn to relax...hmmm...not the first time i've heard that either. can i borrow some of those 20 gallon drums? ;) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:38:39 -0400 From: Marc Subject: Re: [db] ok.. it's not diesel, but it's economical!! ;-) I like it. It's a ragtop top too. I remember seeing the one that was driven in the movie "Romancing the Stone". Marc Z. Stephen Rigley wrote: >Just bought it today.... >its the blue one in the top 3 pics on this page : >http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4590979&uid=510951 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:08:19 -0700 From: "Dan Jacobs" Subject: Re: [db] warming up my 300d > I usually give my rigs about 30 seconds or > so to get juices flowing... then back out slowly... because within 100 > feet > of going forward my vehicles face a vertical climb out the drive... > another > 100 feet at almost 40 degrees... :) then another 150 feet at 30 > degrees... > and once I'm at highway elevation it's either downhill (rapidly) or up > hill at full throttle into 55mph+ traffic after crossing three lanes... :) > > but I digress... > > 30 seconds is long enough... buckle up, get your seatbelt buckle on... > find your sunglasses (rarely used up here, nonetheless), tune the radio > and prepare for bumper to bumper with your latte in one hand, cell phone > in > the other... :) yee haw. > > john Or, ride a motor cycle, and warm it up while you're putting on your helmet, gloves, and jacket. Latte and cell phone not advised. The cart talk guys, Klick and Clack, the Tappet Brothers, on NPR, have been asked this question a thousand times. If you can drive it easily for a while right after you start it, you can start driving as soon as you have oil pressure. If you are getting right on the highway, then you should let it warm up for 30 seconds or so. It'll warm up well in the drive through at your favorite local coffee shop, too ;-) Diesel Dan, you're "Well, officer, I was just warming it up. The smoke will dissipate in a few minutes!" man in Washougal, WA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:33:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] what we learned about veggie oil today... ...encouraged by the blending of waste veggie oil with dino Diesel at about 5 gallons to 20 caused me to push the envelope a bit further on the GMC 6.2L Diesel... I was just under 1/4 tank (31 gallon tank)... so I hooked up two filters in series (both 15-30 microns), see: http://JohnMeister.com/tmp/veggiepump.jpg and started cranking... and cranking... (my $10.29 harbor freight hand pump)... would check the fuel gauge every now and then... my endurance lasted until it was about 3/4 tank... That means there was at least 15 or more gallons of veggie oil in there and maybe about 5 gallons or so of previously blended Diesel... (I haven't tanked this thing up since May... been running on left over generator fuel, fuel from the tanks of the 3/4T 6.2L donor GMC and some veggie oil...) Anyway, started up ok last night... move it into position and figured it might be a good idea to plug it in... This morning it was a challenge to get running... wouldn't idle... stalled at the light on the highway and was pretty gutless until it came up to temperature. So, I was thinking... ok, I drained off the Racor filter last night, maybe I just had a little air in the filter... we'll see how it goes on the commute home... After all day in the parking garage it took a LOT of cranking, and glowing to get it started... went across the street to return the veggie oil buckets and had a workout getting it started again... Got out on I-5 and it did fine once it was warmed up... so I stopped and dropped 11 gallons of Dino Diesel in it... $35 bucks!!! I'm driving the '91 300D (shadowfax) tomorrow... I put the top back on the Jimmy with the help of some folks looking at the 240D tonight. Might see a little rain tonight... So, the lesson learned is that one MUST heat veggie oil to get it working properly. Which means I am on the right track with SuperDawg and the dual tanks. The GMC Jimmy will have to be a blended vegan. So I need to start researching tank heaters for SuperDawg. Otherwise, the 6.2L Diesel seems quite happy with the waste veggie oil. It's as gutless as ever... durable, reliable and at 20mpg, reasonably economical. Also thought up a name for the Jimmy... the Mule. :) So, if you're thinking of using waste or pure veggie oil, consider two tanks and a heater, or blending at about 30% max in warm weather... As far as mixing it in my '91 300D 2.5L TD, I'm not going to do it any more... the viscosity is too much for the newer higher pressure system, it tends to leak at some of the seals.... once I stop using the veggie oil, the leaks stop... That's enough proof for me. :) Maybe if the veggie oil was heated to 160 degrees so it has the same viscosity as Diesel then it might work... but considering how economical the 2.5L already is, it's not worth the expense or risk. At 30 mpg in town I'll just use dino Diesel, or when bioDiesel is less then regular Diesel, I'll go that route as it'll have the correct lubricity and viscosity. Oh, btw, the 240D is going to a new home as soon as the title shows up... Paul from the Diesel Benz list who sold me his totalled 300SD is getting it. Nice to keep it in the family. I really liked the way it felt when I drove it... was tempted to fix the windshield and set it up for veggie oil... but my wife slapped me into reality with the question: "how many cars do you really need?". Oh yeah... that's right I don't need as many as I have... good point. :) later, john driveway stats: '99 wj (hers) 4.0L ~18mpg '91 300D - shadowfax - 2.5L TD - 30mpg '83 gmc jimmy 6.2L Diesel - the Mule - sell or keep? useful for hauling the trailer '75 J10 hydraulic dump trailer '92 cherokee 4.0L - for sale - ~18mpg '86 cherokee 2.5L - for sale - ~20mpg '80 240D - sold '91 grand am (daughter's) 2.5L - -- coming back home soon: '83 J10 stepside with 6.2L Diesel ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:45:44 -0700 From: Charles Redell Subject: Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d Ok. First off, thanks to everyone on this thread. You guys are giving what sounds like sound advice and explaining well enough that I *think* I can tackle all this before it gets too cold and wet out there... Second, I think, unless there is a large contingent of "NO! DON'T DO IT!" on this list, I am going to try Jason's Glow plug test instead of replacing the whole relay... just to be sure they're all working. My reasoning: From the reaction to my claim of "sluggish at first" I don't think I am actually experiencing "sluggish." Maybe, but maybe not. I think finding an unhappy glow plug is unlikely, but worth checking. So, is Jason nuts for suggesting his test or is it worth it for a slightly poor energy reporter to try this as opposed to the whole shebang? The valves I am sure have not been done in awhile (you wouldn't believe how little the guy who sold me the "biomonster" knew about MEercedes and how little he cared. I kinda bought the car just to save it from him... ok that's not true, but still, the poor thing was so happy to get away from him). So I think that might make a difference and it seems like a job I can manage thanks to the book and kit from Mercedessource.com. Finally, the injectors...um. Sounds like a big, delicate job. Is that something that I should budget a fair amount of time/heart/headache for? Any tips before I get into it? For that matter, any tips before I get into any of these jobs? Thanks again! c On 8/16/05, Alec Cordova wrote: > Now that's being frugal. ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jason R Bassett > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:31 PM > > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > Subject: Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d > > > > > > > I say do the valves before doing the glow plugs or injectors. The > > > valves are > > > supposed to be readjusted every 15,000 miles. I'd say it's much more > > > likely > > > that hard or rough starts are caused by valves out of adjustment > > > than by bad > > > glow plugs or injectors. And if you have decent wrenches and a > > > feeler gauge, > > > the valve adjustment only costs you a new valve cover gasket, so > > > it's > > > definitely worth trying just the valve work first. > > > > Frankly, I never replaced the valve cover gasket, and those valves were > > adjusted several times. It leaked a bit, but not enough to comment about. > > Less than most older fOrds and cHeaVees......it's actually surprisingly > > durable. > > > > Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 22:06:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d didn't see what jason said about testing the glow plugs, but there is a connector on the fender well to permit testing of the individual glow plugs without disconnecting them at the engine... simple ohm meter test... low resistance good, open or high resistance not good... I can't remember which Diesel Benz this connector is on... I can show you when you come over to have a Blue Moon burger. ;) as far as the valves, have a shop do it, get price quotes before doing it and bounce it off the list... as far as the injectors, piece of cake... I've done it in the parking lot at Phil Smart Mercedes... at least on a 123 and 126. My 124 is a little trickier... 17MM wrench for the injector lines, 26??mm for the injector... remember to get new heat shields and fresh return line... john who is probably driving the '91 300D in tomorrow... ;) On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Charles Redell wrote: >-->Ok. First off, thanks to everyone on this thread. You guys are giving >-->what sounds like sound advice and explaining well enough that I >-->*think* I can tackle all this before it gets too cold and wet out >-->there... >--> >-->Second, I think, unless there is a large contingent of "NO! DON'T DO >-->IT!" on this list, I am going to try Jason's Glow plug test instead of >-->replacing the whole relay... just to be sure they're all working. My >-->reasoning: From the reaction to my claim of "sluggish at first" I >-->don't think I am actually experiencing "sluggish." Maybe, but maybe >-->not. I think finding an unhappy glow plug is unlikely, but worth >-->checking. So, is Jason nuts for suggesting his test or is it worth it >-->for a slightly poor energy reporter to try this as opposed to the >-->whole shebang? >--> >-->The valves I am sure have not been done in awhile (you wouldn't >-->believe how little the guy who sold me the "biomonster" knew about >-->MEercedes and how little he cared. I kinda bought the car just to save >-->it from him... ok that's not true, but still, the poor thing was so >-->happy to get away from him). So I think that might make a difference >-->and it seems like a job I can manage thanks to the book and kit from >-->Mercedessource.com. >--> >-->Finally, the injectors...um. Sounds like a big, delicate job. Is that >-->something that I should budget a fair amount of time/heart/headache >-->for? Any tips before I get into it? >--> >-->For that matter, any tips before I get into any of these jobs? >--> >-->Thanks again! >-->c >--> >--> >-->On 8/16/05, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->> Now that's being frugal. ;-) >-->> >-->> > -----Original Message----- >-->> > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jason R Bassett >-->> > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:31 PM >-->> > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> > Subject: Re: [db] start-up of 1984 300d >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > > I say do the valves before doing the glow plugs or injectors. The >-->> > > valves are >-->> > > supposed to be readjusted every 15,000 miles. I'd say it's much more >-->> > > likely >-->> > > that hard or rough starts are caused by valves out of adjustment >-->> > > than by bad >-->> > > glow plugs or injectors. And if you have decent wrenches and a >-->> > > feeler gauge, >-->> > > the valve adjustment only costs you a new valve cover gasket, so >-->> > > it's >-->> > > definitely worth trying just the valve work first. >-->> > >-->> > Frankly, I never replaced the valve cover gasket, and those valves were >-->> > adjusted several times. It leaked a bit, but not enough to comment about. >-->> > Less than most older fOrds and cHeaVees......it's actually surprisingly >-->> > durable. >-->> > >-->> > Jason >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1925 **********************************