From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Aug 29 23:31:11 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, August 30 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1936 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] Diesel prices RE: [db] Diesel prices Re: [db] Re: xj: Trucks! - Biodiesel! Re: [db] Re: xj: Trucks! - Biodiesel! Re: [db] Re: xj: Trucks! - Biodiesel! Re: [db] FS Mercedes 240d Subject: [db] Diesel prices RE: [db] Diesel prices Re: [db] Diesel prices [db] $2.99 and veggie adventures... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:55:59 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Diesel prices On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->*IF* that's the case, then we should see big influx of diesel from >-->the european car companies. But I've heard just the opposite. NONE >-->of the car companies, American OR European, have an engine that can >-->meet the new tight emissions laws :( Would this be because not >-->only has the US ordered low sulfer diesel fuel but they also added >-->MORE unreasonable emissions requirements??? WHY do we keep electing >-->such idiots into power?!?! look around you when you go to the store or town... most people are pretty clueless and don't care that they're clueless... john >--> >-->Jim >--> >-->> My understanding is that this switch is to an ultra-low-sulfur blend, >-->and it >-->> is one reason why manufacturers can't even try to sell all the Euro diesel >-->> engines over here. Europe is already on this new ultra-low blend, and >-->their >-->> engines wouldn't like the stuff we have. There may have been a ratio >-->change >-->> in the early 90's, but I'm pretty sure we have another order of magnitude >-->> change scheduled to happen any day. >-->> >-->> Alec >-->> >-->> > -----Original Message----- >-->> > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john >-->> > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 6:43 PM >-->> > To: Marc >-->> > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> > Subject: Re: [db] Diesel prices >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > we've been low sulfur here since the early '90's... >-->> > >-->> > I remember when they changed over... I had a Diesel XJ and >-->> > an Olds 5.7L Diesel at the time... :) >-->> > >-->> > john >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Marc wrote: >-->> > >-->> > > -->We're at 2.45 for regular (paid over $40.00 to fill my Jeep >-->> > XJ today), and >-->> > > -->2.49 for diesel. >-->> > > --> >-->> > > -->Heard a short blurp on NPR yesterday about the low sulfur >-->> > diesel and how $$$ >-->> > > -->are being spent to change over to producing it. They >-->> > mentioned that US car >-->> > > -->makers now need to produce vehicles to use it, like they do >-->> > in Europe. >-->> > > -->Marc Z. >-->> > > --> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:56:53 -0500 From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: RE: [db] Diesel prices I believe you're right with ALL your comments and questions, including lower sulfur fuel and tighter standards, although I think the new standards are similar to the upcoming phase of Euro emissions standards. Likely solutions include having to pee in a tank that injects ureaic (sp?) acid into the exhaust, or at least having to get that addin refilled every 50K miles or so. Alec Quoting Jim Hoffman : > *IF* that's the case, then we should see big influx of diesel from > the european car companies. But I've heard just the opposite. NONE > of the car companies, American OR European, have an engine that can > meet the new tight emissions laws :( Would this be because not > only has the US ordered low sulfer diesel fuel but they also added > MORE unreasonable emissions requirements??? WHY do we keep electing > such idiots into power?!?! > > Jim > > > My understanding is that this switch is to an ultra-low-sulfur blend, > and it > > is one reason why manufacturers can't even try to sell all the Euro > diesel > > engines over here. Europe is already on this new ultra-low blend, and > their > > engines wouldn't like the stuff we have. There may have been a ratio > change > > in the early 90's, but I'm pretty sure we have another order of > magnitude > > change scheduled to happen any day. > > > > Alec > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > > > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 6:43 PM > > > To: Marc > > > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > > Subject: Re: [db] Diesel prices > > > > > > > > > we've been low sulfur here since the early '90's... > > > > > > I remember when they changed over... I had a Diesel XJ and > > > an Olds 5.7L Diesel at the time... :) > > > > > > john > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Marc wrote: > > > > > > > -->We're at 2.45 for regular (paid over $40.00 to fill my Jeep > > > XJ today), and > > > > -->2.49 for diesel. > > > > --> > > > > -->Heard a short blurp on NPR yesterday about the low sulfur > > > diesel and how $$$ > > > > -->are being spent to change over to producing it. They > > > mentioned that US car > > > > -->makers now need to produce vehicles to use it, like they do > > > in Europe. > > > > -->Marc Z. > > > > --> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 10:01:37 -0500 From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: Trucks! - Biodiesel! Remember that even MB made quite a few internal changes when adding the turbo to the OM617, including oil jets up under the pistons. Alec Quoting john : > the turbo lag makes sense... that's why they put 'em so > close to the manifold so the heat energy can be used... > > how much are they? this might be a good thing to use > on my '83 J10 with the 6.2L Diesel, things are a little > tight under the hood. > > As far as a turbo on a gas engine, wouldn't suggest it... > they don't hold up as well as on a Diesel. > > john > > > On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 XJGPN-at-aol.com wrote: > > >-->I also have an F-body, and the STS turbo setups for them are really > popular > >-->since the engine bay turbo systems are so expensive due to the tight > confines > >-->around the F-body engine. They seem to get pretty good results... the > power > >-->level is there, but spool up is a bit laggy. Personally, I think they > just > >-->plain look hack and wouldn't do it.. but there are tons of guys that > swear by > >-->them. So, to answer your question, they definitely don't work as well > as a > >-->conventional turbo system... but they do work, and are much more cost > > >-->effective & much easier to install. > >--> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:15:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: Trucks! - Biodiesel! the American Diesels, the good ones, were choked, throttled back and no where near their full output... my 6.2L Detroit Diesel can gain quite a bit with a Banks kit. I'm happy with the power output at this point... but it's nice to know it can be improved. john On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >-->Remember that even MB made quite a few internal changes when adding the turbo >-->to the OM617, including oil jets up under the pistons. >--> >-->Alec >--> >-->Quoting john : >--> >-->> the turbo lag makes sense... that's why they put 'em so >-->> close to the manifold so the heat energy can be used... >-->> >-->> how much are they? this might be a good thing to use >-->> on my '83 J10 with the 6.2L Diesel, things are a little >-->> tight under the hood. >-->> >-->> As far as a turbo on a gas engine, wouldn't suggest it... >-->> they don't hold up as well as on a Diesel. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 XJGPN-at-aol.com wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->I also have an F-body, and the STS turbo setups for them are really >-->> popular >-->> >-->since the engine bay turbo systems are so expensive due to the tight >-->> confines >-->> >-->around the F-body engine. They seem to get pretty good results... the >-->> power >-->> >-->level is there, but spool up is a bit laggy. Personally, I think they >-->> just >-->> >-->plain look hack and wouldn't do it.. but there are tons of guys that >-->> swear by >-->> >-->them. So, to answer your question, they definitely don't work as well >-->> as a >-->> >-->conventional turbo system... but they do work, and are much more cost >-->> >-->> >-->effective & much easier to install. >-->> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 10:36:25 -0500 From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: Trucks! - Biodiesel! Hmm. I wonder why GM decided to try overbuilt diesels. ;-) Quoting john : > the American Diesels, the good ones, were choked, throttled back > and no where near their full output... my 6.2L Detroit Diesel > can gain quite a bit with a Banks kit. I'm happy with the power > output at this point... but it's nice to know it can be improved. > > john > > On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > > >-->Remember that even MB made quite a few internal changes when adding the > turbo > >-->to the OM617, including oil jets up under the pistons. > >--> > >-->Alec > >--> > >-->Quoting john : > >--> > >-->> the turbo lag makes sense... that's why they put 'em so > >-->> close to the manifold so the heat energy can be used... > >-->> > >-->> how much are they? this might be a good thing to use > >-->> on my '83 J10 with the 6.2L Diesel, things are a little > >-->> tight under the hood. > >-->> > >-->> As far as a turbo on a gas engine, wouldn't suggest it... > >-->> they don't hold up as well as on a Diesel. > >-->> > >-->> john > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 XJGPN-at-aol.com wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >-->I also have an F-body, and the STS turbo setups for them are > really > >-->> popular > >-->> >-->since the engine bay turbo systems are so expensive due to the > tight > >-->> confines > >-->> >-->around the F-body engine. They seem to get pretty good results... > the > >-->> power > >-->> >-->level is there, but spool up is a bit laggy. Personally, I think > they > >-->> just > >-->> >-->plain look hack and wouldn't do it.. but there are tons of guys > that > >-->> swear by > >-->> >-->them. So, to answer your question, they definitely don't work as > well > >-->> as a > >-->> >-->conventional turbo system... but they do work, and are much more > cost > >-->> > >-->> >-->effective & much easier to install. > >-->> >--> > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:38:59 -0400 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: Re: [db] FS Mercedes 240d Oh, so now it comes to this? Just for that - I'm not telling you about the 1982 Rampage(I now have 3) that I bought at the Dallas Can Academy, this past Saturday, for $350. $560 after all the fees and TT&L. Needs a starter. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:40:00 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] FS Mercedes 240d SO? That hasn't stoped Waylon, John, or myself from acquiring new toys. Besides you liked the ride of the 123 when you had that 300D a while back... Besides, you want to visit your dad, and want to do a cross country drive without worrying that the transmission is going to self destruct, right? :) K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:46:57 -0400 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: Subject: [db] Diesel prices Check Wal-mart. I filled up Friday at 2.37 a gallon - 2.34 with a Walmart card. Regular was 2.56 a gallon. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:54:46 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Diesel prices coming home (with 20 gallons of veggie oil in buckets in the trunk) I noticed that Diesel hit $2.91 today... regular gas at $2.68. Need to get SuperDawg on the road so I have those dual tanks... will have to start driving the Jimmy a bit more... not going to set it up to deal with dual tanks, it's going to find itself in pieces or in a new home soon as the dawg is done. john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:19:46 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: RE: [db] Diesel prices Well, whatever the solutions are, if they are similar between the two continents then where would the problem be selling diesel cars in the US? Why all the concern that the Euro cars won't be able to meet the tight standards? So many questions so few answers... So many idots in charge so little common sense! :( Jim > I believe you're right with ALL your comments and questions, including lower > sulfur fuel and tighter standards, although I think the new standards are > similar to the upcoming phase of Euro emissions standards. Likely solutions > include having to pee in a tank that injects ureaic (sp?) acid into the > exhaust, or at least having to get that addin refilled every 50K miles or so. > > Alec > > Quoting Jim Hoffman : > > > *IF* that's the case, then we should see big influx of diesel from > > the european car companies. But I've heard just the opposite. NONE > > of the car companies, American OR European, have an engine that can > > meet the new tight emissions laws :( Would this be because not > > only has the US ordered low sulfer diesel fuel but they also added > > MORE unreasonable emissions requirements??? WHY do we keep electing > > such idiots into power?!?! > > > > Jim > > > > > My understanding is that this switch is to an ultra-low-sulfur blend, > > and it > > > is one reason why manufacturers can't even try to sell all the Euro > > diesel > > > engines over here. Europe is already on this new ultra-low blend, and > > their > > > engines wouldn't like the stuff we have. There may have been a ratio > > change > > > in the early 90's, but I'm pretty sure we have another order of > > magnitude > > > change scheduled to happen any day. > > > > > > Alec > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 6:43 PM > > > > To: Marc > > > > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > > > Subject: Re: [db] Diesel prices > > > > > > > > > > > > we've been low sulfur here since the early '90's... > > > > > > > > I remember when they changed over... I had a Diesel XJ and > > > > an Olds 5.7L Diesel at the time... :) > > > > > > > > john > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Marc wrote: > > > > > > > > > -->We're at 2.45 for regular (paid over $40.00 to fill my Jeep > > > > XJ today), and > > > > > -->2.49 for diesel. > > > > > --> > > > > > -->Heard a short blurp on NPR yesterday about the low sulfur > > > > diesel and how $$$ > > > > > -->are being spent to change over to producing it. They > > > > mentioned that US car > > > > > -->makers now need to produce vehicles to use it, like they do > > > > in Europe. > > > > > -->Marc Z. > > > > > --> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:22:00 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Diesel prices On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 10:49:50AM -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: > *IF* that's the case, then we should see big influx of diesel from > the european car companies. But I've heard just the opposite. NONE > of the car companies, American OR European, have an engine that can > meet the new tight emissions laws :( Would this be because not > only has the US ordered low sulfer diesel fuel but they also added > MORE unreasonable emissions requirements??? WHY do we keep electing > such idiots into power?!?! The main problem is that the US places more of an emphasis on oxides of nitrogen, whereas the EU takes a look at the overall picture (or at least places a lesser emphasis on oxides of nitrogen). The low sulfur diesel requirements were more in place to lower the soot contamination. As far as I've heard, there isn't anything lighter than a light truck engine [which is classified different] that will meet the emissions requirements. One could argue conspiracy (in that the oil companies don't want more efficient vehicles), one could argue inept government (not a hard sell), or some combination of the two. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:27:10 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] $2.99 and veggie adventures... drove the 6.2L Diesel today... stopped to top the tank off with dino Diesel so it'll start easier... what to my wondering eyes do I see, but a price of 2.99999 on the pump... then, it gets worse... a quick calculation shows that the Jimmy is only getting around 15 to 16 mpg... of course that was doing some towing... actually quite a bit thinking about it... anyway, with being forced to blend at less than 50% dino/veggie it's less cost effective to drive the mule. I'm not going to spend the time to setup a dual tank/heater for it... Not sure what the future holds for the mule... he's got SuperDawg's winter shoes on and his original seats... I may still pull the engine/trans/xfr case and fuel system and sell the hulk... of course it's apparent that this engine may not be in peak operating condition... guess it's tired... So I'm going to switch back to Shadowfax and his 30mpg until SuperDawg is done. Once the dawg is on the road it won't matter if he gets 15 or 20 mpg because he's got dual tanks and I can start on Diesel and run on veggie oil. Glad I bought another 55 gallon barrel this weekend... Curtis is making good progress on the J10. If he can get the paint on in the next week or two it'll be together in a month and I can start working on the fuel heater setup... :) Going to run down to Centralia over the long weekend to bring down the fuel selector valve, tank parts, temp guage and other SMALL items needed... and thinking about bringing down 55 gallons of veggied oil, well, maybe only 25 gallons for the aux tank... ;) rofl... I've got to spend some quality time at Graingers... fuel heaters, pumps, and so on... 160 degrees... :) Oh yeah, in other news, my son has decided to get the '86 Cherokee with the 2.5L. I need to get the radiator cleaned, or replace it... anyone have a good '86 2.5L radiator? Not sure what I'm going to do with the '92 Cherokee with the bad hole in #6... I do have a spare engine, but no spare time... I start teaching again this quarter... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1936 **********************************