From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Aug 31 00:06:12 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, August 31 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1939 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] $2.99 and veggie adventures... Re: [db] Who's running B100? also waste engine oil... Re: [db] Who's running B100? also waste engine oil... [db] pretty interesting for DIY WVO [db] Wascaly Wabbit RE[db] Wascaly Wabbit Re: [db] Wascaly Wabbit Re: [db] Wascaly Wabbit Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:37:10 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] $2.99 and veggie adventures... On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 07:50:14AM -0700, john wrote: > >-->*** Gee I may have to drive up to WA to gas up. Last diesel I bought in > >-->San Mateo was $3.23/gallon. It's $3.05/gallon down at the Rotten Robbies > >-->in Santa Clara - the cheapest diesel station in the Bay Area, IMHO. > >--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > Try Salinas... they were cheaper than the bay area last year... ;) > the shell a couple blocks south of the In-n-out, east side > of 101... ;) Market st in Salinas is a bit far to drive for fuel from the bay area, unless you're going that way anyway. Rotten Robbie is usually amongst the cheapest around (of the diesel stations you aren't afraid of patronizing for one reason or another). I've been filling up in the east bay near work, somewhere between $3.05 and $3.09 per gallon right now. K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:48:58 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Who's running B100? also waste engine oil... On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 11:13:53AM -0700, john wrote: > yeah, more than 50% veggie oil pointed out the problems of starting... > > thanx for the info... looks like the 6.2 Diesel will be a nice garbage > disposal. ;) Don't forget that the 6.2 has almost as voracious of an appetite for glow plugs as international diesels seem to (including those v8 models that appeared in fords). K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Who's running B100? also waste engine oil... yeah, the glow plug thing has crossed my mind, especially since this one doesn't have a controller... have to push and hold a button... the Dipstick Previous Previous owner was a real winner... john On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Kevin wrote: >-->On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 11:13:53AM -0700, john wrote: >-->> yeah, more than 50% veggie oil pointed out the problems of starting... >-->> >-->> thanx for the info... looks like the 6.2 Diesel will be a nice garbage >-->> disposal. ;) >--> >-->Don't forget that the 6.2 has almost as voracious of an appetite for glow >-->plugs as international diesels seem to (including those v8 models that appeared >-->in fords). >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:35:57 -0400 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] pretty interesting for DIY WVO http://www.bio-power.co.uk/makeit.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:45:47 -0700 From: Charles Redell Subject: [db] Wascaly Wabbit Hey there, So ok, Dayna and I finally found some time to tinker with her non-running 81 Rabbit. Here's what happened. It didn't start. HA! No, seriously. Taking the advice of someone on this list (forgive me for forgetting who), I started by disconnecting the input to the fuel injector pump and turning the ignition on but not cranking it to see if fuel would shoot out. It did not telling me that there is either a clogged fuel line or something wrong in the tank (clogged filter back there or bad pump in the tank). At least, that is what I was told here and it makes sense to me. I then started working backwards to see if I could find a hole or a clogged line and did not, but was admittedly not totally thorough. Here's why. First of all, she has a Greasel kit installed for running WVO and the diesel line does route through a switch or a valve of some sort. I couldn't jimmy around with that connection because she couldn't find the book for the greasel system and the light was begining to fail so I only had so much time to monkey about. So I skipped that length and went to the fuel filter, which had been changed and there was fuel in it. I bled it to try and see if there was water in it, and there was not. So I monkeyed around under the car and found the fuel lines running from the tank and saw that they come out as rubber hoses and then are joined to metal lines via a simple clamp. Ah-HA! I thought, if I disconnect the send line there, and start the car, then the pump that is supposedly INSIDE the fuel tank should start squirting fuel out that line and tell me that the problem is definitely not in the tank. Well, we did that, and no fuel squirted out (yes, there is fuel in the tank. she filled up recently and when I dropped the hose coming out of the tank to below the tank, fuel poured out (such a pretty gold color biod is)... So, ok, here's where I am now. She did not change the fuel filter INSIDE the tank. According to the Bently manual, this is not necessary to change (but it does say it may someday become necessary. Someone else on this list suggested the possibility of a bad pump inside the fuel tank as well. It is my going theory that one of those is bad (though it is just a guess because the fuel in the fuel filter that sits under the hood on the passenger side of the engine tells me that maybe this brilliant idea of mine wasn't actually a very accurate test). Weird, huh? Thoughts? Suggestions? I think that if I get a jack stand and some time I can get the fuel tank off (the book describes it pretty well) and can even deal with the filter in there... but the pump. Not sure if the person who suggested it had the right name for it. Can anyone shed some light on how hard it may be to get the thing out and a new one in? Is there something it sounds as if I have missed? Is there a better/easier fix I am missing? Thanks again for al the advice and help. c (and to think, I almost bought a rabbit myself. God bless my Benz.....) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:43:19 -0700 From: "derick" Subject: RE[db] Wascaly Wabbit Okay, I have one of these rigs. There is no fuel pump in the tank the IP does it via suction, at least that is the case in my 1981 VeeDub truck. Since you have a WVO/SVO/biodiesel set up I encourage you to bypass it until you get it to run on dino then continue your troubleshooting efforts from there. To test for a plug or to prime the system easier: Remove the banjo fitting at the Injection Pump (IP)the one that comes from the top of the fuel filter. Next disconnect the return hose and make sure the fuel cap is on. Next use an air compressor with a blow attachment and put it on the end of the return line and give it a couple of pounds of air pressure fuel should come out the supply line at the injection pump if it does you probably have a clear pathway and now your system is primed. If your fuel filter is empty it will take some extra time for the fuel to fill it up and proceed to the IP. The suction the IP provides is not enough to self prime the system. If you get the fuel to come out of the supply banjo fitting, have an assistant remove the fuel cap while you re-attach the fuel lines. (if you do not do this you may get fuel spraying back through the return hose making a mess). The next step in priming is filling up the IP. Loosen the fuel lines going to the top of the injectors and have a partner crank her over until you see fuel starting to come out of them then re-torque them. DO NOT CRANK FOR MORE THAN 60 SECONDS AT A TIME, ELSE you will see smoke coming out of the starter. Just let the starter cool for 15 min and try again. Once the fuel is coming out of the injection lines, you tighten them down it should go after a few more cranks. Hope this helps. Derick No, seriously. Taking the advice of someone on this list (forgive me for forgetting who), I started by disconnecting the input to the fuel injector pump and turning the ignition on but not cranking it to see if fuel would shoot out. It did not telling me that there is either a clogged fuel line or something wrong in the tank (clogged filter back there or bad pump in the tank). At least, that is what I was told here and it makes sense to me. I then started working backwards to see if I could find a hole or a clogged line and did not, but was admittedly not totally thorough. Here's why. First of all, she has a Greasel kit installed for running WVO and the diesel line does route through a switch or a valve of some sort. I couldn't jimmy around with that connection because she couldn't find the book for the greasel system and the light was begining to fail so I only had so much time to monkey about. So I skipped that length and went to the fuel filter, which had been changed and there was fuel in it. I bled it to try and see if there was water in it, and there was not. So I monkeyed around under the car and found the fuel lines running from the tank and saw that they come out as rubber hoses and then are joined to metal lines via a simple clamp. Ah-HA! I thought, if I disconnect the send line there, and start the car, then the pump that is supposedly INSIDE the fuel tank should start squirting fuel out that line and tell me that the problem is definitely not in the tank. Well, we did that, and no fuel squirted out (yes, there is fuel in the tank. she filled up recently and when I dropped the hose coming out of the tank to below the tank, fuel poured out (such a pretty gold color biod is)... So, ok, here's where I am now. She did not change the fuel filter INSIDE the tank. According to the Bently manual, this is not necessary to change (but it does say it may someday become necessary. Someone else on this list suggested the possibility of a bad pump inside the fuel tank as well. It is my going theory that one of those is bad (though it is just a guess because the fuel in the fuel filter that sits under the hood on the passenger side of the engine tells me that maybe this brilliant idea of mine wasn't actually a very accurate test). Weird, huh? Thoughts? Suggestions? I think that if I get a jack stand and some time I can get the fuel tank off (the book describes it pretty well) and can even deal with the filter in there... but the pump. Not sure if the person who suggested it had the right name for it. Can anyone shed some light on how hard it may be to get the thing out and a new one in? Is there something it sounds as if I have missed? Is there a better/easier fix I am missing? Thanks again for al the advice and help. c (and to think, I almost bought a rabbit myself. God bless my Benz.....) - -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/85 - Release Date: 8/30/2005 - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/85 - Release Date: 8/30/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 01:46:52 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Wascaly Wabbit Charles wrote: > <>So ok, Dayna and I finally found some time to tinker with her > non-running 81 > Rabbit. Here's what happened. No, seriously. Taking the advice of > someone on this list (forgive me for forgetting who), I started by > disconnecting the input to the fuel injector > pump and turning the ignition on but not cranking it to see if fuel would > shoot out. It did not telling me that there is either a clogged fuel > line or > something wrong in the tank (clogged filter back there or bad pump in the > tank). I'll jump in here since I drove two VW diesels ('81 Rabbit and '90 Jetta) for a total of around 500,000 miles. There IS no pump in the tank. The injection pump, on the engine, provides the suction to pull the fuel from the tank up to the engine. If you are getting no fuel at the injectors you have either a clogged filter, a break in the fuel lines or a bad injection pump. The VW diesels are about the same as our MB's. The only differences are that we have two fuel filters and the Bosch injection pump has separate feeds (tubes) for each cylinder as opposed one tube feeding all four. The VW DOES have a water filter, which our MB's don't... I haven't followed your troubles closely, so I may miss something you already mentioned. Some thoughts at large: (1) Have you loosened the nut on #4 injector, cranked the engine, and observed if any fuel sprays out. Break out the 17mm (might be a 19mm, it's been quite a few years...) and try. (2) If not, loosen up the spin on fuel filter (unscrew it a turn or two) and see if fuel pours out when you crank the engine. If not, start looking for broken lines to and from the tank. (3) If you had fuel spewing from the filter, or at #4 injector, take a look at the front of the pump. There is a rectangular plate on it. Is there fuel seeping out around it? If so, maintaining "prime" will be difficult, if not impossible. There was a source, up in Michigan, that sold that gasket, but I don't know if they are available anymore. You should be able to fabricate one though. If the above doesn't result in positive responses, your injection pump may have given up the ghost. I have yet to see a Bosch injection pump just fail. My '81, at around 280,000 miles, had the front seal on the pump leaking profusely. My '90 Jetta's pump suffered from a worn throttle shaft at around 225,000 miles. The VW pumps may not be as robust as the Bosch MB models, but they are pretty sturdy. However, you mentioned that Dayna is running biodiesel. You're on your own, son! ;-) I am not familiar with biodiesel mods. I would seriously suspect those as being the problem. Again, you're on your own.... Revert the engine back to a stock configuration and I'll bet you it'll run. One other thought. How fast is the starter turning? Providing the battery is sound, do you have a starter that is known to be good? If so, swap it out. My son ran my '81 without coolant (a hose had blown) for 15 miles or so and blew the engine. We swapped the engine with a '78. We ended up using all the accessory parts of the '81, including the transaxle. It wouldn't start. I pulled the '81 starter and put the '78 in it and it fired right up. Just a thought.... >Weird, huh? Thoughts? Suggestions? > > I just gave them. I suspect it's the biodiesel mods causing the problem. But, that's just my gut reaction.... If you get it running, let us know what caused the problem. Jon Formerly: '81 Rabbit '90 Jetta '81 240D Currently: '84 300SD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:04:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Wascaly Wabbit you know I don't think there is a pump in that tank... most Diesels draw the fuel to the pump. In the tank will be a screen or sock... on the pickup tube... no pump. No pump was in my 300SD, pretty sure there is no pump in my 300d, and pretty sure there wasn't a pump in my rabbits either... or in my Jimmy... My Jeep cherokee, a gasser, does have a pump in it... so I know what one looks like. ;) so cranking won't get fuel pumping... but you could try opening the bleeder on the filter and see if anything comes out... most of the Diesels I've seen will start flowing fuel when you pull the connection to the inlet of the primary filter... john On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Charles Redell wrote: >-->Hey there, >--> >-->So ok, Dayna and I finally found some time to tinker with her non-running 81 >-->Rabbit. Here's what happened. >-->It didn't start. HA! >--> >-->No, seriously. Taking the advice of someone on this list (forgive me for >-->forgetting who), I started by disconnecting the input to the fuel injector >-->pump and turning the ignition on but not cranking it to see if fuel would >-->shoot out. It did not telling me that there is either a clogged fuel line or >-->something wrong in the tank (clogged filter back there or bad pump in the >-->tank). At least, that is what I was told here and it makes sense to me. >--> >-->I then started working backwards to see if I could find a hole or a clogged >-->line and did not, but was admittedly not totally thorough. Here's why. First >-->of all, she has a Greasel kit installed for running WVO and the diesel line >-->does route through a switch or a valve of some sort. I couldn't jimmy around >-->with that connection because she couldn't find the book for the greasel >-->system and the light was begining to fail so I only had so much time to >-->monkey about. So I skipped that length and went to the fuel filter, which >-->had been changed and there was fuel in it. I bled it to try and see if there >-->was water in it, and there was not. >--> >-->So I monkeyed around under the car and found the fuel lines running from the >-->tank and saw that they come out as rubber hoses and then are joined to metal >-->lines via a simple clamp. Ah-HA! I thought, if I disconnect the send line >-->there, and start the car, then the pump that is supposedly INSIDE the fuel >-->tank should start squirting fuel out that line and tell me that the problem >-->is definitely not in the tank. Well, we did that, and no fuel squirted out >-->(yes, there is fuel in the tank. she filled up recently and when I dropped >-->the hose coming out of the tank to below the tank, fuel poured out (such a >-->pretty gold color biod is)... >--> >-->So, ok, here's where I am now. She did not change the fuel filter INSIDE the >-->tank. According to the Bently manual, this is not necessary to change (but >-->it does say it may someday become necessary. Someone else on this list >-->suggested the possibility of a bad pump inside the fuel tank as well. It is >-->my going theory that one of those is bad (though it is just a guess because >-->the fuel in the fuel filter that sits under the hood on the passenger side >-->of the engine tells me that maybe this brilliant idea of mine wasn't >-->actually a very accurate test). >--> >-->Weird, huh? Thoughts? Suggestions? >--> >-->I think that if I get a jack stand and some time I can get the fuel tank off >-->(the book describes it pretty well) and can even deal with the filter in >-->there... but the pump. Not sure if the person who suggested it had the right >-->name for it. Can anyone shed some light on how hard it may be to get the >-->thing out and a new one in? Is there something it sounds as if I have >-->missed? Is there a better/easier fix I am missing? >--> >-->Thanks again for al the advice and help. >-->c >-->(and to think, I almost bought a rabbit myself. God bless my Benz.....) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1939 **********************************