From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 28 09:46:17 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, September 28 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1970 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update Re: [db] Fuses [db] Re: Fuses Re: [db] glow plug light show. Re: [db] Fuses Re: [db] Re: Fuses Re: [db] Re: Fuses [db] 30.7 mpg? Re: [db] 30.7 mpg? Re: [db] 30.7 mpg? Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:08:16 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update Thanks for the feedback, I'll try sourcing one today > > WHOA. Are you saying you have an oil leak coming from the vacuum pump? > if so, replace it NOW before it implodes and shoots little pebbles from > the bearings into the engine. They usually last on the 60x engines around > 200-250k miles, which would probably be somewhere around 310-320k km (just > guessing on that figure). They get noisy as they age, and you've identified > where the pump is on my 87 300D and TD. > > Unlike on the older engines, the pump isn't easily rebuildable, and you're > better off procuring a new one. The new revision likely will not have the > basket below it to catch the parts that fling out (!), that did a bad job > of catching the parts that fling out. > > K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:07:18 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update Oil, coming out from just behind the vacuum pump I think. On 9/27/05, scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: > I have the 190D shop manual CD at home :( Probably won't remember to look at it tonight... > > What kind of leak is it? Oil or Fuel? > > R, > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:58 AM > To: Stephen Rigley > Cc: diesel-benz list > Subject: Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update > > On Tue, 27 Sep 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > >-->So... 190D .. engine was washed down and the source of the leak is... > >-->what appears to be the Brake Vaccum Valve type thing (not sure exactly > >-->what its called... on front of engine block just to the left of the > >-->screw in fuel filter), it's also the source of the "clatter" we've > >-->been having... > >-->Anyone replaced one of these before? Will the whole unit need to be > >-->done or is it just a matter of a gasket change? > > not sure on the benz, but it's the vacuum pump, seems to me it's > tied in with the injection pump... I'd have to look at a drawing, > I think Scott has the shop manual for the 190d, I gave you the CDs > with it didn't I? if not then I need to do an archeological dig in my > office. ;) > > > >-->Also.. (this is for you John ;-) the 2CV has someone coming to look at > >-->it this week so that maybe going... I don't really want to sell it... > >-->it's a ton of fun! > > it's a cute thing... very cool... not sure I'd want to drive it on the > street though... ;) > > >-->Last Sat morning I flew to Cambridge in the UK and drove home my > >-->latest acquisition... a LHD 1995 1600cc Fuel injected (I kid you not!) > >-->Mexican Beetle ! > > very, very cool. 140km!!! that's just a wee bit faster than a shift > from 2nd to 3rd in my Mustangs on the Autobanh... ;) I had a '64 > Karman Ghia with a 1200 over there that would do 95mph. :) > > >-->500 miles, one cancelled ferry (7 hours waiting round .. so we fixed > >-->the reverse gear and gave it a good T-Cut + wax ;-) and it was home. A > >-->few pictures up here : > >-->www.mx5ireland.com/members/srigley/Dubster/ > > what's the old building? > > >-->Have been driving it in and out from work the last few days too and I > >-->have to say it is the most SOLID car I've ever driven! No rattles, no > >-->creaks, no shakes ... feels like it was carved from the one block of > >-->stone! LOL > > One thing I learned about beetles in snow... don't downshift to slow down... ;) > unless you want a very interesting panaromic view of the surrounding countryside, > kind of a 360 degree view, your speed of viewing will vary... ;) > > john > > >--> > >-->Steve > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:08:58 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update Hmmm... will DEF source one today so. This has been like this for over 18 months... On 9/27/05, derick-at-amburgey.us wrote: > I agree with K, my first 190d rebuild was because of this failure. > The vacuum pump works via ball bearing roller onto a sine wave advance > cam connected to the IP. > The bearings fail and drop into the oil pan (best case scenario). > Or they get caught up in the timing chain and blow out your timing chain > cover (this happened to me) > It also caused the advance cam gear to separate which "tweaked" the IP > pump shaft enough to kill it. > If you pull the Vacuum pump you will see what is left of the bearing. > The shaft will look like it is wearing a ring because the ball bearings > are in your oil pan. > > The news is now that it has happened most of the danger is gone. You > need to replace the pump ASAP because what is left on the cam is acting > like a high RPM jack hammer on your IP advance cam gear. Make sure you > include the VIN number with your parts order to ensure you get the > right gasket. (how do I know this...) > It is an easy repair, messy, but easy. > > Getting the ball bearings out of the pan. The first thing I would try > is tilting the car so the drain plug is the lowest point. Get a really > strong magnet and try to coax them out through the drain plug hole.This > may work because the pan is Aluminum and the bearing steel. You may get > lucky and they will come out when you drain the pan. The other > alternatives to this are: Removing the oil pan, this is more involved > due to the things that need to be removed or moved. You may try to > access the pan by removing the timing chain cover chain and go fishing > though the top with a magnet. Either way it will require removal of > many components. The pick up screen on the oil pump will keep the ball > bearings out of the engine in the interim. Personal opinion is I would > ;pull the pan and clean it that way the lingering doubt would be gone. > > Good luck, > > Derick > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update > > From: Kevin > > Date: Tue, September 27, 2005 2:08 pm > > To: Stephen Rigley > > Cc: diesel-benz list > > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 02:50:58PM +0100, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > > So... 190D .. engine was washed down and the source of the leak is... > > > what appears to be the Brake Vaccum Valve type thing (not sure exactly > > > what its called... on front of engine block just to the left of the > > > screw in fuel filter), it's also the source of the "clatter" we've > > > been having... > > > Anyone replaced one of these before? Will the whole unit need to be > > > done or is it just a matter of a gasket change? > > > > WHOA. Are you saying you have an oil leak coming from the vacuum pump? > > if so, replace it NOW before it implodes and shoots little pebbles from > > the bearings into the engine. They usually last on the 60x engines around > > 200-250k miles, which would probably be somewhere around 310-320k km (just > > guessing on that figure). They get noisy as they age, and you've identified > > where the pump is on my 87 300D and TD. > > > > Unlike on the older engines, the pump isn't easily rebuildable, and you're > > better off procuring a new one. The new revision likely will not have the > > basket below it to catch the parts that fling out (!), that did a bad job > > of catching the parts that fling out. > > > > K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:06:33 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: [db] Fuses At 10:18 PM 9/27/2005, you wrote: >have you tried those glass fuses? Yes. I think the problem is that the springs don't have much force. Next time, I'm going to try to bend the contact a bit to tighten it up. But right now, it's working and I don't want to break the spell. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:30:02 -0400 From: "wmpless" Subject: [db] Re: Fuses Hi, Fuse # 13 also directed me to the problem of having an empty battery in less than 6 hours after engine switched off. Turned out to be a short in the courtesy light. Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:17:46 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Fuses On Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 08:53:17PM -0400, Michael Frank wrote: > Has anyone managed to replace their bullet fuse box with a modern-style > (ATC) block? Just had my millionth non-conductive fuse problem, and I wish > I could make it my last. This one was cute...I turned on the hazard lights, ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:01:52 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] glow plug light show. the velocitator? ;-) On 9/27/05, scott_haaland-at-agilent.com wrote: > Too funny....I didn't want to call it a "gas pedal" since we don't burn gas, > and "diesel pedal" didn't sound right either (and then I spelled it wrong, > like the flower......what is that thing called that we step on to move forward > in a very slow and gradual manner? The "Go-Pedal"?? > > ;) > scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:23:48 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Fuses Michael Frank wrote: Has anyone managed to replace their bullet fuse box with a modern-style (ATC) block? Just had my millionth non-conductive fuse problem, and I wish I could make it my last. This one was cute...I turned on the hazard lights, and the radio stopped working. Turned the hazard warning off, and half a minute later, the radio clicked on. Then, when I opened the door, the light was dim and the radio turned off again. Thought I'd need an exorcist. Replaced lucky fuse 13, sprayed with Deoxit, walked around the car three times, slaughtered a chicken, and everything ok...for now. And the Jaguar guys think that Lucas is bad.... Mike Frank Thanks for the early morning chuckle. ANother of my favorites is "Lucas, prince of darkness" possibly from this list also. In one of my former lives I sold cars in Binghamton NY. Even back then I wondered why Jags wouldn't start in wet weather...like they don't have any of that in England! During my short stint there I dealt with two XKE Jags. What maintenance nightmares! Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA '86 300 SDL '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 6.9L F350 Crew Cab ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:55:30 -0700 From: "corey church" Subject: Re: [db] Re: Fuses Can someone tell me what all this fuse #13 operates? I seem to have a similar problem on my 300sd, and all I can find in the manual is the radio constant power and the central lock pump. Thanks Corey On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:30:02 -0400, "wmpless" said: > Hi, Fuse # 13 also directed me to the problem of having an empty battery > in > less than 6 hours after engine switched off. Turned out to be a short in > the > courtesy light. > > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:17:46 -0700 > From: Kevin > Subject: Re: [db] Fuses > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 08:53:17PM -0400, Michael Frank wrote: > > Has anyone managed to replace their bullet fuse box with a modern-style > > (ATC) block? Just had my millionth non-conductive fuse problem, and I wish > > I could make it my last. This one was cute...I turned on the hazard lights, - -- corey church coreychurch-at-fastmail.fm - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:56:35 US/Eastern From: mfrank-at-westnet.com Subject: Re: [db] Re: Fuses Can't speak to a 300SD. On my '87 190D, it feeds the ignition buzzer, radio, emergency flashers, interior light, and probably a few other things. MIke Frank > Can someone tell me what all this fuse #13 operates? I seem to have a > similar problem on my 300sd, and all I can find in the manual is the > radio constant power and the central lock pump. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:44:54 -0400 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] 30.7 mpg? 1980 300 SD, 247K miles - normally gets 25-27 mpg. I changed the tires from 185/70/14 to a considerably larger tire, 205/70/14. I expected the mileage to drop a bit but wanted to reduce engine rpm on the highway(where I drive the most). Stopped yesterday, to fill up, as I had accumulated 248.6 miles. Tank was about to spill over at 8.09 gallons. It takes me a little longer to fill up as I let the foam dissolve. Fill up, to me, and clear liquid about 1 inch from the top of the neck. I do this because it is 18.3 miles from the station, to the house. I have been able to go 500 miles between fill-ups. Same station, same fill-up procedure, level ground, no other changes. I'm pretty amazed. I have noticed that the car is 'different'. Doesn't accelerate as hard, but a smoother ride. I also noticed that I do not have to press the pedal, as much as before, to maintain my cruise speed(about 70-75 mph). I drive around 80-90 miles a day. I will be able to confirm the readings in 2-3 days. This just confirms my belief that our MBs are over-geared. Since they were produced when the speed limit was 55, need to make any/all adjustments to achieve a lower rpm. I have a 2.82 rear-end that I plan to replace the 3.07s with to see if the mpg will increase or decrease. I wonder what the mpg really is as the larger tires make the speedo turn even slower. Keep in mind that I am not a conservative driver nor was I trying to increase mpg. After trying just about everything, I gave and accepted that 25-27 was the best I could ever get, so I just drive it. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:26:53 US/Eastern From: mfrank-at-westnet.com Subject: Re: [db] 30.7 mpg? Divide your odometer mileage by .95 to get true mileage. That works out to 261.7, your actual fuel efficiency is 32.3. The big tires are like adding an overdrive gear to your transmission: less acceleration, but lower RPM's. You must have hit a sweet spot, the improvement is much more than I would have expected. Are your sure nothing else changed? Mike Frank > 1980 300 SD, 247K miles - normally gets 25-27 mpg. > > I changed the tires from 185/70/14 to a considerably larger tire, > 205/70/14. I expected the mileage to drop a bit but wanted to reduce > engine rpm on the highway(where I drive the most). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:32:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 30.7 mpg? do the math and see if you can change the gears in the trans/speedo: http://JohnMeister.com/FSJ/tech/gears.html each tire size is about 3%, so derate that mileage by 6%? One thought came to mind... I wonder if you could install the tranny out of a newer model with the overrdrive... my 124 is barely turning at 70mph... engine rpm at 100mph isn't as high as what my 126 did at 70. if we could retrofit the newer trans into the 123/126 that would be cool... john On Wed, 28 Sep 2005, Black, Waylon wrote: >-->1980 300 SD, 247K miles - normally gets 25-27 mpg. >--> >-->I changed the tires from 185/70/14 to a considerably larger tire, >-->205/70/14. I expected the mileage to drop a bit but wanted to reduce >-->engine rpm on the highway(where I drive the most). >--> >-->Stopped yesterday, to fill up, as I had accumulated 248.6 miles. Tank >-->was about to spill over at 8.09 gallons. It takes me a little longer to >-->fill up as I let the foam dissolve. Fill up, to me, and clear liquid >-->about 1 inch from the top of the neck. I do this because it is 18.3 >-->miles from the station, to the house. I have been able to go 500 miles >-->between fill-ups. >--> >-->Same station, same fill-up procedure, level ground, no other changes. >-->I'm pretty amazed. >--> >-->I have noticed that the car is 'different'. Doesn't accelerate as hard, >-->but a smoother ride. I also noticed that I do not have to press the >-->pedal, as much as before, to maintain my cruise speed(about 70-75 mph). >-->I drive around 80-90 miles a day. >--> >-->I will be able to confirm the readings in 2-3 days. >--> >-->This just confirms my belief that our MBs are over-geared. Since they >-->were produced when the speed limit was 55, need to make any/all >-->adjustments to achieve a lower rpm. >--> >-->I have a 2.82 rear-end that I plan to replace the 3.07s with to see if >-->the mpg will increase or decrease. >--> >-->I wonder what the mpg really is as the larger tires make the speedo turn >-->even slower. >--> >-->Keep in mind that I am not a conservative driver nor was I trying to >-->increase mpg. After trying just about everything, I gave and accepted >-->that 25-27 was the best I could ever get, so I just drive it. >--> >-->Waylon Black >-->Little Elm, Texas >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:32:40 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update > >-->500 miles, one cancelled ferry (7 hours waiting round .. so we fixed > >-->the reverse gear and gave it a good T-Cut + wax ;-) and it was home. A > >-->few pictures up here : > >-->www.mx5ireland.com/members/srigley/Dubster/ > > what's the old building? > Kings College in Cambridge ... ever heard of it? ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:39:19 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Leaky 190D & "fleet" update > >-->Last Sat morning I flew to Cambridge in the UK and drove home my > >-->latest acquisition... a LHD 1995 1600cc Fuel injected (I kid you not!) > >-->Mexican Beetle ! > > very, very cool. 140km!!! that's just a wee bit faster than a shift > from 2nd to 3rd in my Mustangs on the Autobanh... ;) I had a '64 > Karman Ghia with a 1200 over there that would do 95mph. :) What d'ya reckon it's at here? ;-) (all filmed on a private test track ;-) http://www.mx5ireland.com/members/srigley/Dubster/2005Sep24_180.MPG ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1970 **********************************